Should The Mentally Ill Be Punished For Their Crimes?

Quent wrote:

largehat wrote:


Since the late 1990s, anyone with racist, homophobic or any other prejudiced opinions, when criticised, comes out with the stock counter argument that the person criticising them is "part of the PC brigade" or that a given situation is "political correctness gone mad".

Utter bullshit mate. I've read nothing in this thread that offends me and, believe me, I know more than most on this subject.

I'm glad you've not found anything offensive in the thread, but I honestly fail to see what that has got to do with my point about the over-application of the term political correctness in general.

largehat wrote:
You're deliberately misunderstanding my posts now to score points = natural end of discussion.

For the record I was not deliberately misunderstanding you, it seemed as clear as day you were calling me a racist for mentioning the word 'slow'.

Here is what I don't get - if you are sick enough to rape and murder a child, or anyone for that matter - are you not mentally ill by definition? Surely someone of sound mind would not ever do it.

No?

As I understand it the law distinguishes between those who know they did wrong and those whose mental state means they didn't know. So if you kill someone and hide the body and conceal the fact it suggests you knew you have committed a crime and are therefore fit to stand trial. An example of this is the Yorkshire Ripper who tried to plead insanity but was held to be fit to stand trial.

That's the law (I think) although I find it hard to conceive of anyone committing the crimes that he did being sane. Clearly he was mentally ill to do those things.

I agree with the Hat, but can see Nat's frustration in this. I believe that due to political interference, including Europe, our legal system is becoming less responsive , and more directed, as to what punishments are dealt out. The problem of airy-fairy Judges has always been there, and always will. Also, I believe the present situation where mental health seems to be an issue nobody is either aware of, or can deal with, is due to the money-saving policy of governments, 'Care in the Community' of the 80's. In a single stroke, and the sustained closure of mental institutions, the mentally ill were left high and dry, with a general public unable to understand what is required in cases whereby considerations should be made. Mentally ill people shouldn't be punished the same as sane people, as a norm. However, neither should their illness be used as a way of excusing them. We all know the 'One size fits all' idea doesn't work well, but in this case, we really should have a much better way of handling the mentally ill who commit crimes.

largehat wrote:
If somebody is seriously mentally ill, and it can be proven that they were not responsible for their actions, and they were severely provoked, then they should definitely receive a shorter sentence.

I suppose you'd lock them up and throw away the key, because that's entirely consistent with your fascist views.

Largehat and the other bleeding hearts, I'm interested in your views on Anders Behring Breivik - I presume you have sympathy and think he should be released immediately?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:
If somebody is seriously mentally ill, and it can be proven that they were not responsible for their actions, and they were severely provoked, then they should definitely receive a shorter sentence.

I suppose you'd lock them up and throw away the key, because that's entirely consistent with your fascist views.

Largehat and the other bleeding hearts, I'm interested in your views on Anders Behring Breivik - I presume you have sympathy and think he should be released immediately?

If you were genuinely interested in my views, you would cut out the sarcastic crap and the trolling. I've better things to do than encourage you and rake up old coals.

largehat wrote:

If you were genuinely interested in my views, you would cut out the sarcastic crap and the trolling. I've better things to do than encourage you and rake up old coals.

I thought you might say that as it's difficult for you to spout your crap when a guy kills 77 people.

He's not mentally ill you tit.

largehat wrote:He's not mentally ill you tit.

So what he did was the action of a sane person?

xmiles wrote:

largehat wrote:He's not mentally ill you tit.

So what he did was the action of a sane person?

It looks that way. Hitler wasn't mentally ill either.

He hasn't said he is mentally ill but his claim to self defence makes him look a right cnut. He's just a nasty evil bastard who got his kicks out of shooting innocent people. Life imprisonment with total solitary confinement would give him plenty of time to reflect on what an evil little cockroach he really is.

largehat wrote:He's not mentally ill you tit.

How convenient for you LH, a guy who kills 77 people is completely sane. Ok.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:He's not mentally ill you tit.

How convenient for you LH, a guy who kills 77 people is completely sane. Ok.

Inconvenient for your sad trolling more like.

Dead horses on Saturday, dead people on Tuesday, eh?

largehat wrote:

Inconvenient for your sad trolling more like.

Dead horses on Saturday, dead people on Tuesday, eh?

I don't like it when animals die just so men can gamble, please forgive me.

largehat wrote:

xmiles wrote:

largehat wrote:He's not mentally ill you tit.

So what he did was the action of a sane person?

It looks that way. Hitler wasn't mentally ill either.

Legally but not in most people's understanding of the word. I can live with it but it does seem to be designed to enable us to punish people who are effectively uncurable. The main thing is to ensure that they stay locked up.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
I don't like it when animals die just so men can gamble, please forgive me.

Women gamble on horses, train horses for horse racing, and ride the bloody things too.

That aside, I've no issue with your view on horse racing actually, if it is genuine.

But you're like the boy who cried wolf, any sincerity in your views is lost to me 90% of the time, because you espouse so much crap to wind people up.

xmiles wrote:
Legally but not in most people's understanding of the word. I can live with it but it does seem to be designed to enable us to punish people who are effectively uncurable. The main thing is to ensure that they stay locked up.

The whole issue for me with insanity or mental illness in relation to culpability for crimes is whether someone knew what they were doing at the time and knew it was wrong and illegal.

Even if it is decided upon that this individual in Norway is living out some wild fantasy in his mind, I think it's already been established he knew what he was doing. I think insanity might explain why he thinks murdering dozens of people was beneficial to a cause, but it won't justify it and in any case, he will never be free and will never live among the general population in a prison, so it's pretty moot anyway.

largehat wrote:

Even if it is decided upon that this individual in Norway is living out some wild fantasy in his mind, I think it's already been established he knew what he was doing. I think insanity might explain why he thinks murdering dozens of people was beneficial to a cause, but it won't justify it and in any case, he will never be free and will never live among the general population in a prison, so it's pretty moot anyway.

But what if he gets off on a technicality, like the coppers who arrested him forgot to read him his rights for example. It happened to Freddy Kruger and look what happened there.

It's better to just stick a needle in his arm.

They should be locked away for the same amount of time, receiving treatment of course, ignorance is not a defence against the law for the rest of us, so why should they get less time because they didn't understand their crime was wrong? If you do the crime, you do the time.

It shouldn't be about how long it takes to cure them, its a punishment and should be the same for everyone, a sane person could 'learn his lesson' not to go about killing people anymore after a year in prison, but that doesn't mean they should be released.