Where's Jock.....?

When I was a small boy in the 70's, it seemed that all the top teams in England were awash with top-class Scottish players.

Kenny Dalglish, Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Joe Jordan, Gordon McQueen, Lou Macari, Martin Buchan, Archie Gemmill, John Robertson, and so on.......

When did Scotland stop producing decent players and why......?

I agree. Let's not forget our former manager Bruce Rioch, Don Masson, Willie Johnston and Asa Hartford as well.

That was in the days when young British players got plenty of opportunity to develop as foreign imports were relatively few and far between.

wanderlust wrote:That was in the days when young British players got plenty of opportunity to develop as foreign imports were relatively few and far between.

This.

Some top class players came down in years past. Alan Gilzean was a particular favorite of mine. And does anyone remember Peter Marinello,(dubbed the next George Best)who came down to join Arsenal? He never lived up to expectations.

Steve McAnespie was good.

boltonbonce wrote:Some top class players came down in years past. Alan Gilzean was a particular favorite of mine. And does anyone remember Peter Marinello,(dubbed the next George Best)who came down to join Arsenal? He never lived up to expectations.

Indeed. Mo Johnston, Frank McAvennie, Charlie Nicholas and Jim Baxter were also decent players in their prime.

Dennis Law, Frank McLintock, Dave Mackay are worth a mention.

Willie Morgan  

Danny McGrain, Willie Donachie, Alan Rough, Jim Blyth, John Greig... The Jocks have certainly produced some decent quality players over the last fifty years.

There are many reasons that the flow of Scottish players has dried up. I was born north of the border and lived there till I was 12- and I'm the same age as many of the great players mentioned in this thread.
The only game at the time was football. Rugby was for the rich kids at the posh schools and cricket was a minority sport played around Edinburgh.
Most of the players mentioned were from the Glashow side of the country- and the skills were honed playing street football.
In those days all kids played out- and usually with what was called a tanner ba'. In other words a cheap tennis ball where you played for hours in the streets- cars and paedos didn't pose a problem then. You had one black and white telly with two channels. No phone, no PCs no internet. So-if you weren't in school or in bed you were in the street playing football.
All of that has disappeared- as has the flow of good footballers.
Look at where some of the worlds best footballers now come from? South America and Africa. Just like Scotland ( and England) fifty years ago- these countries have poverty and huge numbers of kids playing in the street- and that's where they develop skills and talent, and presumably get noticed.

Bang on Rammy. The problem with modern kids is that they're over coached. In my day we played for hours on end just for the enjoyment,mainly with a rubbish ball,and tactics didn't come into it. Now my nephew can only get about 20 minutes game time with the local club because every player,however poor they are,has to have an equal amount of time on the pitch. This leaves the better players frustrated and their parents threatening to take the lads elswhere in an effort to further their prospects. Everyone likes to see youngsters enjoying their football,but the cream must be allowed to come to the top,and if others miss out that is just the way it is. In passing,my mates lad got a place on the QPR junior squad,where he was coached on how to go down in the area! At 11 years old. I thought he was joking but the lad confirmed it.

Spot on Rammy and Bonce.

I was actually going to call this thread "Is Obafemi the new Jock?" 

I'd already come to the same conclusions as you two before I wrote it, but I thought I'd open it up to discussion before I posted my view.

I actually started thinking about the whole subject in bed the other night when I was trying to name the Nottingham Forest team from the '79 European Cup Final, in a desperate attempt to get some sleep. (It's like counting sheep but more fun.)

I got ten by the way.

Try putting a DVD of 'Mrs Browns boys' on. I'm comatose within seconds.

Ha ! Glad it's not just me that doesn't get the whole "Little Irish bloke in a frock telling lame gags and swearing a bit" thing.

Everybody else seems to think it's hilarious, knock-about fun but I just think it's shit.

It makes Paddy McTalentless look funny.......

When I can't sleep I mash up TV programmes and swap the characters. For instance,last week I swapped the characters of Dad's Army and Star Trek. Captain Mainwaring was on the bridge of the USS Enterpise along with Scotty(private Fraser) Bones(Private Godfrey) and Spock (Warden Hodges) along with all the others. The crew of the starship were all in Walmington-on-sea causing bother and mayhem.

Breadman wrote:

I actually started thinking about the whole subject in bed the other night when I was trying to name the Nottingham Forest team from the '79 European Cup Final, I got ten by the way.

From memory! Shilts, John McGovern, Frank Clarke, Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns, Archie Gemmill, John Robertson, Martin O'Neill, Tony Woodcock. ( Only 9 for me and I'm not sure if they are all right but if it was the Hamburg game then Robertson scored the only goal)

Gemmill, Burns and Robertson were all Jocks as well.

Birtles, Anderson & Francis.

(Gemmill started on the bench.)

Not bad though from memory.

boltonbonce wrote:Bang on Rammy. The problem with modern kids is that they're over coached. In my day we played for hours on end just for the enjoyment,mainly with a rubbish ball,and tactics didn't come into it. Now my nephew can only get about 20 minutes game time with the local club because every player,however poor they are,has to have an equal amount of time on the pitch. This leaves the better players frustrated and their parents threatening to take the lads elswhere in an effort to further their prospects. Everyone likes to see youngsters enjoying their football,but the cream must be allowed to come to the top,and if others miss out that is just the way it is. In passing,my mates lad got a place on the QPR junior squad,where he was coached on how to go down in the area! At 11 years old. I thought he was joking but the lad confirmed it.

I'd add that competitiveness has been diluted for modern day kids. Football was like war when I played - take no prisoners and expect no mercy. None of that "give the fat kid a game as it's his turn". That "everyone is a winner" mentality will probably damage a lot of 'em when the reality of life kicks in.

I remembered Trevor Francis but I can only remember him scoring in the final against Malmo. I should have got Viv Anderson tbh.