Next season a solid defence from the start

Al habsi will be on a Bosman this summer.Lonerghan too hit n miss.A quality centre half with Mills and a left back.Unless Baptiste goes centre half with mills n Hayden White comes in at right back.Things can change quickly with some good defensive loans.Derby were no better than us at the Reebok yet they are 2nd now.Live in hope 

We've been saying this for ages, i thought this was our big season.

See what our new manager brings to the table.

Let us not forget our miserable start with Knightmare being made captain and starting on defense.  Dawson made us believe that Dougie knew what he was doing.  When Dougie failed to replace Dawson or purchase him, and then made Knightmare the center of the team, we should have all known what was in store for us.

I thought, as many others did, that Dougie would come good.  I believe the first year has been a total failure. We still do not have a starting eleven.  We still can not win without loanees shoring up our defense.  While I still believe Dougie has an eye for talent, I understand that the unpaid debt will inhibit any sense of creativity or tactics that Dougie may or may not have. 

We are debt ridden and weak team who need a captain on top and a captain on the field.  We have neither and we will be lucky to finish mid-table.  Unless someone takes N'gog off our hands, Dougie will have nothing for January. Perhaps the real plan of the board was a two-year restructuring and a clean-out of all the talent.  I'm not sure if anyone could have done better than Dougie, but at the same time his tactics in games has driven us to the brink.  Playing players out of position also adds to the defensive lapses.

Is there any hope?  Of course there is hope... but Dougie has to recognize where these lapses are and fill them.  So far, the first year has been up and down, but over-all not very impressive. 

When Mr. Gartside said we would aim for two points per game and try to get back to the EPL in one year, we thought we had a squad that might be able to pull it off.  Last year was a reality check followed by a spurt led by Dawson (mind you a player who does not get many starts in the EPL).  This year's start was the low point in Bolton history.  It has not gotten much better, and we still lack a starting eleven. 

Let's hope January takes away some of the deadwood, infuses some cash, and brings us some players who want to play.  Perhaps Dougie will get lucky, but in the end, our debt will overwhelm us with mediocrity.  I only hope we finish mid-table at this point, and finish with 1 1/2 points or more per game.  Thankfully it is a long season.

Gartside is to blame in my opinion.How does he justify taking £600-000 a year for sitting in the stands.Everyone we have spent money on we have got it back and some.Anelka 8 million £15 back,Cahill £4 million £7 back.Coyle signing egg nog for 4 million he obviously didn't do his homework.Scored about 16 goals in France and Liverpool in total.Elmander a Megson buy record signing should of been on a 5 year contract but got to fuck off on a Bosman,Gartside as chairman you are supposed to put in some input ie N'gog isn't a goal scorer ,Elmander as record signing should have been on a longer contract but what do I know

We need to sign McNaughton as a priority right back signing. We need a quality left back urgently, even if it is a loan. Baptiste should be deployed at centre half, which is his natural position and we could do with signing another centre half to give give competition for Baptiste & Mills.

Mears, Knight & Ream can all go.

White84 wrote:Al habsi will be on a Bosman this summer.Lonerghan too hit n miss.

Laughable. Lonergan has been our best player this season, I can't think of a single mistake that cost a goal. He kept us in the game at Barnsley.

Al Habsi isn't in the Wigan team for a reason - he is shit.

i would keep Ream, he has been one of our better players this season and he can at least pass a ball unlike Mills and Knight.

we have to try Baptiste at centre half, its crazy that DF insists he's a fullback when he never played there for Blackpool.

Ream has been okay at right back. If we can't get McNaughton back then we are in the shit because Tierney is still not yet on the mend. Baptiste should be given a start at centre half instead of being the sacrificial lamb on the flanks.

Next summer transfer window can't be much worse than the last two summer transfer windows, they have been a fucking disaster IMO.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

White84 wrote:Al habsi will be on a Bosman this summer.Lonerghan too hit n miss.

Laughable. Lonergan has been our best player this season, I can't think of a single mistake that cost a goal. He kept us in the game at Barnsley.

Al Habsi isn't in the Wigan team for a reason - he is shit.

Correct you are Madam....

Lonergan is not the problem .....of course he will be parked back on the bench when Boggers is fit.......then it will be a problem again.

No team ....including City & Arsenal can withstand a constant onslaught from the opposition. You have to stop the pressure from the front....frontmen who can hold up the ball and then midfielders who can pass a ball ten feet and not panic. If we could do that then some combination of our defenders will do the job....for now.

People are too quick to look at the defenders themselves as opposed to the team as a unit.

I'm a believer in attack as a form of defence. No I don't want us to go into every game wide open, that's different.
But you can be so defensive that it plays into the opposition's hands in terms of them being able to get into your half and cause problems.

This has been happening all season and Dougie can't see it.

doffcocker wrote:People are too quick to look at the defenders themselves as opposed to the team as a unit.

I'm a believer in attack as a form of defence. No I don't want us to go into every game wide open, that's different.
But you can be so defensive that it plays into the opposition's hands in terms of them being able to get into your half and cause problems.

This has been happening all season and Dougie can't see it.

spot on Doffcocker   

Agreed Doffer. I feel that the engine room of any team is the midfield, they support the attack, protect the defence, and create, and force, the way of play, (or should do). Unfortunately, the indecision of this manager to go for a settled midfield is affecting the whole performanceand. Even if we had a known weak link in midfield, we should still go for some sort of continuity, as the chopping and changing ripples through, and affects, the whole team.

I agree with doffcocker for a change.

The biggest problem throughout the team is the lack of ability on the ball. No one can keep hold of it for more than a second, except maybe Ream - which is why Ream should be in midfield.

We give the ball away as soon as we get it which just heaps more pressure on the defence.

We need two fullbacks and a midfielder comfortable on the ball - if we had those three players we would be in a much better position.

I sort of agree but the problem is a little more complicated IMO.
I think the reason we play defence minded midfielders like Spearing or Medo is because there isn't enough confidence in the back four - so that takes away from the attacking options. If we had a solid back four we wouldn't need so much cover and could get more players forward when required.

I therefore think that the issue is that the system Dougie plays is determined by the players we currently have - he doesn't have the luxury of enough quality players to play a system he might prefer.

Even playing this system, it looks like "trying to make the best of a bad situation" - I just don't know if it would be even worse if he picked a different system and then selected players on the basis of their ability to play that way.

If we get new players in I think that the system has to be reviewed - and maybe we should be looking to recruit on the basis of what system we could play if we had certain players.

At the moment it looks like getting a decent left back would create more system options further up the park - I guess that was the idea in signing Tierney but yet again Dougie was unlucky. Baptiste is as good as McNaughton at RB and White will probably be better than either of them when he's ready so I wouldn't waste money there.
All that assumes we play 2 CBs in a flat back four but I honestly think that should be up for review as well - we could go for 3CBs and 2 wing backs to get up and down. If we went that way, we could manage with one holding midfielder and let the other 4 plus 2 wing backs push on when we have possession. Plus we could sign forward thinking talent instead of a LB.

TBH I don't think that the club are considering promotion this year so the sooner Dougie starts setting his stall out to develop for longer term instead of reacting to short-term demands and setting up to suit the players we currently have, the better.

I know that wouldn't please many fans, but personally I'd be happier if it was more apparent that our efforts are going into building for the future instead if hearing comments about it that aren't reflected in the team that is picked or the system played.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

White84 wrote:Al habsi will be on a Bosman this summer.Lonerghan too hit n miss.

Laughable. Lonergan has been our best player this season, I can't think of a single mistake that cost a goal. He kept us in the game at Barnsley.

Al Habsi isn't in the Wigan team for a reason - he is shit.

Habsi has been injured! But I agree with you re. Lonergan.

wanderlust wrote:I sort of agree but the problem is a little more complicated IMO.
I think the reason we play defence minded midfielders like Spearing or Medo is because there isn't enough confidence in the back four - so that takes away from the attacking options. If we had a solid back four we wouldn't need so much cover and could get more players forward when required.

I therefore think that the issue is that the system Dougie plays is determined by the players we currently have - he doesn't have the luxury of enough quality players to play a system he might prefer.

Even playing this system, it looks like "trying to make the best of a bad situation" - I just don't know if it would be even worse if he picked a different system and then selected players on the basis of their ability to play that way.

I agree with your first paragraph Wanderlust, Dougie will play 2 defensive midfielders together to protect the back four, because they are so vulnerable. This seems to have a negative impact on our attacking options though.

Dougie has inherited a squad, that really isn't up to the standard of his much prefered 4-3-2-1 formation and he is still trying to play his prefered system, even though he hasn't got his style of players at his disposal.

Surely Dougie should be thinking, well I should try and get the best out of what I have got and if that means playing, say a 4-4-2 formation until he has recruited his particular type of player, then so be it.

I'd be amazed if a 4-4-2 formation with say Beckford and C Davies upfront and say Chungy & Eagles on the flanks, that we would be 18th in the table.

I remember a Palace fan coming on the 606 board when we appointed Freedman and basically saying that his over-riding priority is not to lose. He said that Dougie sets his teams up to try and keep clean sheets and win by the odd goal.

He said that if you've got players further up the park who are comfortable on the ball and keen to get forward when the opportunity presents itself, you should be ok. (To which we all said "Yeah, we'll be fine because our squad is full of Premier League quality!" like the bunch of deluded pricks we still were back then......)

One plan, one idea, one way of doing things.

If that don't work........

I think we all agree two specialist full backs are needed and not the stop gaps as at present. Dougie clearly favours the 4-2-3-1 formation used by most these days fearing central midfield will be overrun in the standard 4-4-2 favoured by OC. I always preferred BSA's formation of 4-3-3 when in possession flexing into 4-5-1 when out of possession. A system used in our most successful years and may be an idea to revert to?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

White84 wrote:Al habsi will be on a Bosman this summer.Lonerghan too hit n miss.

Laughable. Lonergan has been our best player this season, I can't think of a single mistake that cost a goal. He kept us in the game at Barnsley.

Al Habsi isn't in the Wigan team for a reason - he is shit.

I would normally not do this but I agree with Nat. I wouldn't go so far as to say Lonergan is the best player all season but he's certainly helped to solidify the defence. They look to have much more confidence in him than in Adam. As to Ali, well, I don't like bringing ex players back because they almost never do as well a second time around like managers. 

And if he did come back he'd want to be automatic first choice like before he left and I wouldn't give him that right now. Andy's doing fine, Al Habsi is on the bench with Wigan and frankly this season when I have seen him play he hasn't lit any fires for me. He's a decent keeper, on his day he can be brilliant but overall I don't think he's an improvement on what we have already so why spend the money on his wages that can be better used elsewhere?