** Natasha's Mole Exclusive **

When does he start Nat ?

observer wrote:I think you pointed out the worst message sent this season - that there is no reward for playing well.  That probably was the best analysis of DF's failure in winning the team over.

I remember a lot of games under Coyle where we played well and came away with nothing.
I don't think Freedman will be remembered like that. I've come away from most if not all games that we've lost this season, feeling it was thoroughly deserved. Even when we went on a great run last season, the football was clinical at best.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

A few of us have suggested that we should be careful what we wish for when discussing Dougie's tenure - who on earth would wish for Billy Davies unless they were a complete moron?

He has a decent record at Championship level - why would wanting him make anyone a moron?

He has a decent record because he jumps ship just before everything turns to shit.
I don't blame him, I do this on Championship Manager all the time.
If he'd stayed at Derby, he'd have been known as the idiot that got them promoted, then took them back down, even though he spent a bomb. Instead he's just known as the guy that got them promoted.

doffcocker wrote:

He has a decent record because he jumps ship just before everything turns to shit.
I don't blame him, I do this on Championship Manager all the time.
If he'd stayed at Derby, he'd have been known as the idiot that got them promoted, then took them back down, even though he spent a bomb. Instead he's just known as the guy that got them promoted.

Sounds like the perfect manager - gets a few results then fucks off before it all goes wrong.

If only Megson, Coyle & Freedman had the same principles.

Davies was sacked, he didn't leave. King Billy is like marmite you either love him or hate him I would have chosen him to replace Coyle but my impressions are that he starts well and then when it goes pear shaped it stays pear shaped and he's off or gets the bullet. 

Dougie will improve the first team and the youth / development squad given a little time and I know I'm very much in a minority here but the rebuilding of our club is a root and branch project and not a quick fix. All supporters are impatient and want things to improve immediately [me included] but sometimes a longer term view is what's required.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

He has a decent record because he jumps ship just before everything turns to shit.
I don't blame him, I do this on Championship Manager all the time.
If he'd stayed at Derby, he'd have been known as the idiot that got them promoted, then took them back down, even though he spent a bomb. Instead he's just known as the guy that got them promoted.

Sounds like the perfect manager - gets a few results then fucks off before it all goes wrong.

If only Megson, Coyle & Freedman had the same principles.

Not quite. Billy spends a load of cash - badly - and then fucks off before he's found out.
Then some poor mug like Dougie comes in to try to sort it out, gets all the stick and none of the glory.

NickFazer wrote:
Dougie will improve the first team and the youth / development squad given a little time and I know I'm very much in a minority here but the rebuilding of our club is a root and branch project and not a quick fix. All supporters are impatient and want things to improve immediately [me included] but sometimes a longer term view is what's required.

I'm with you on this Nick but unfortunately there are a few posters on here who don't fully grasp how much shit we're in and haven't got any patience or interest in rebuilding - they want results now regardless of how shit our squad is and how much the manager (Dougie or anyone else) has their hands tied in trying to sort it for the long term.
I guess you always get a few squeaky wheels after a crash and they 'll always make the most noise regardless of how much you oil them.

Welcome Billy if you can take us up and down a couple of time the Brucie bonus in cash will go a long way to saving us.  Hope you win more than dopey Doug who only managed a manager of the month award at each of his two clubs.

NickFazer wrote:
Dougie will improve the first team and the youth / development squad given a little time and I know I'm very much in a minority here but the rebuilding of our club is a root and branch project and not a quick fix.

That is a complete guess and based on zero evidence.

So far he's bought poorly-to-average and the youth teams are no better than they were 5 years ago, with no obvious "stars" being groomed for a stint in the first team.

Just because someone can talk the talk, doesn't mean they can walk the walk. People who are in the "Freedman Out" camp are basing their opinion on hard evidence, you are simply guessing.

wanderlust wrote:
I'm with you on this Nick but unfortunately there are a few posters on here who don't fully grasp how much shit we're in and haven't got any patience or interest in rebuilding - they want results now regardless of how shit our squad is and how much the manager (Dougie or anyone else) has their hands tied in trying to sort it for the long term.
I guess you always get a few squeaky wheels after a crash and they 'll always make the most noise regardless of how much you oil them.

So you're saying money is everything? Is it no longer in a managers remit to improve the players he has?

How many players have improved under Dougie. Very few I would say.

NickFazer wrote:
I know I'm very much in a minority here but the rebuilding of our club is a root and branch project and not a quick fix. All supporters are impatient and want things to improve immediately [me included] but sometimes a longer term view is what's required.

I agree but what makes people think Dougie's the one?

If the manager was some drunk we pulled in off the street, would people still be saying "give him time, it's not gonna happen over night"?

If we're being honest, there are some serious problems in the way Freedman organises and motivates teams. I imagine us still having problems when he's cleared out the overpaid underperformers and builds a team that is his own.

doffcocker wrote:

If we're being honest, there are some serious problems in the way Freedman organises and motivates teams. I imagine us still having problems when he's cleared out the overpaid underperformers and builds a team that is his own.

It's a bloody myth that Dougie is clearing out the overpaid ponces. Baptiste is on £25k a week the shitbag, and Beckford £35k the useless ponce.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:
I'm with you on this Nick but unfortunately there are a few posters on here who don't fully grasp how much shit we're in and haven't got any patience or interest in rebuilding - they want results now regardless of how shit our squad is and how much the manager (Dougie or anyone else) has their hands tied in trying to sort it for the long term.
I guess you always get a few squeaky wheels after a crash and they 'll always make the most noise regardless of how much you oil them.

So you're saying money is everything? Is it no longer in a managers remit to improve the players he has?

How many players have improved under Dougie. Very few I would say.

No. I'm saying that there's a lot more to the job needed at BWFC currently than Billy Davies has to offer or to be more exact that Dougie fulfills more of the criteria than Davies ever will.
I'm also saying that you'll complain about any aspect of the job where Dougie doesn't meet your criteria and that you are occasionally right and sometimes guessing e.g. when you went on and on about 442 and when that didn't work out you switched to 442 but it had to be specific players and when that didn't work out you started banging on about something else.
The good news is that there'll always be something to complain about with any manager so don't worry - you'll have plenty of ammo as it's going to be a while before the finances are sorted, before we can buy quality players and before there'll be any signs of the youth players making a permanent breakthrough. And seeing as results are almost guaranteed to be poor throughout the transition period you'll be having a field day along with everyone else who feels we have a divine right to beat "the likes of Yeovil". 

How many players have improved under Dougie?
Knight
Boggers - less clangers of late
All 22 youth and development players
Ngog, Andrews, SKD and Sordell for pissing off
Mears and Eagles for being marginalised
Juke - couldn't score for toffee at Boro
Mavies for learning how to walk again
Most of the loanees who couldn't get a game with their clubs
Wheater, Mills, Medo and Ream all looking far more solid.

And a few have gone backwards:
Tierney for breaking his leg the dumb f***
Spearing who needs to visit Specsavers
Baptiste for playing out of position badly
Holden for rushing his comeback just to play in the World Cup for the US of A instead of accepting that his best chance of having what's left of his career is to focus on getting fit for BWFC.
Lee - much as I like him, his crossing and shooting have gone down the pan.

Money isn't everything but it sure helps when there's a squad to rebuild.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

NickFazer wrote:
Dougie will improve the first team and the youth / development squad given a little time and I know I'm very much in a minority here but the rebuilding of our club is a root and branch project and not a quick fix.

That is a complete guess and based on zero evidence.

So far he's bought poorly-to-average and the youth teams are no better than they were 5 years ago, with no obvious "stars" being groomed for a stint in the first team.

Just because someone can talk the talk, doesn't mean they can walk the walk. People who are in the "Freedman Out" camp are basing their opinion on hard evidence, you are simply guessing.

The evidence is that the development and U21 squads have improved performances and results, players languishing around the Reebok have been sent out to prove themselves in League 1 and 2, to see if they can cut it. We haven't brought players through on a regular basis for donkeys years, I have been a fan since the late 70's and our record of producing our own talent is appalling and Big Sam / Meson and Coyle did little if anything to improve that situation.

Regarding the current first team players, performances have been average at best but by and large that is because as footballers in this league they ARE average at best. Dougies loan signings have generally been good, Beckford is the only signed player to have cost any money and OK he hasn't set the world on fire but he hasn't been a disaster either.

As regards evidence / guessing how about this

Sacking Dougie Freedman to replace him with Billy Davies who has been sacked for not living up to expectations despite having a huge transfer budget and a free hand in the transfer market. What evidence do you have that Billy Davies would do better with a poorer playing squad than he had at Forest and zero funds.

Methinks I'm not the one guessing.

NickFazer wrote:

The evidence is that the development and U21 squads have improved performances and results, players languishing around the Reebok have been sent out to prove themselves in League 1 and 2, to see if they can cut it. We haven't brought players through on a regular basis for donkeys years, I have been a fan since the late 70's and our record of producing our own talent is appalling and Big Sam / Meson and Coyle did little if anything to improve that situation.

Regarding the current first team players, performances have been average at best but by and large that is because as footballers in this league they ARE average at best. Dougies loan signings have generally been good, Beckford is the only signed player to have cost any money and OK he hasn't set the world on fire but he hasn't been a disaster either.

As regards evidence / guessing how about this

Sacking Dougie Freedman to replace him with Billy Davies who has been sacked for not living up to expectations despite having  a huge transfer budget and a free hand in the transfer market. What evidence do you have that Billy Davies would do better with a poorer playing squad than he had at Forest and zero funds.

Methinks I'm not the one guessing.

Firstly Mr Fazer I didn't choose Billy Davies as our next manager, although I can understand why you would think I have such influence. He wouldn't be my choice, but I'd hazard a guess he couldn't do any worse than Freedman.

I think most Bolton fans accept Freedman has made some stupid decisions in his starting 11's and his tactics. No one can deny he is too cautious. To suggest he will somehow "come good" one day is just guesswork. Everything is just mediocre. Yes, we are skint, but let's not forget we have more spending power than many teams above us - Baptiste is on £25k and Beckford even more. Let's not make out we're on an Accrington Stanley budget.

Dear Ms Whittam

What I am saying is that the chances of actual improvement are better when a manager is given the opportunity to do his work and not to sack him just because he isn't flavour of the month. The board have decided to give him that opportunity whether it is justified or not time will tell but I'm sure he will be here next season when he WILL have to walk the walk. I am not particularly a Dougie fan but I am definitely not in favour of chopping and changing every 12-18 months either.

Yours sincerely

Mr Fazer

NickFazer wrote:Dear Ms Whittam

What I am saying is that the chances of actual improvement are better when a manager is given the opportunity to do his work and not to sack him just because he isn't flavour of the month. The board have decided to give him that opportunity whether it is justified or not time will tell but I'm sure he will be here next season when he WILL have to walk the walk. I am not particularly a Dougie fan but I am definitely not in favour of chopping and changing every 12-18 months either.

Yours sincerely

Mr Fazer

Good luck with   Nick.

Davies, 49, was appointed Reds boss for a second time in February 2013, but was fired in the wake of Saturday's 5-0 defeat against rivals Derby County.
The result left Forest a place and two points outside the Championship play-offs after an eight-game winless run.
Davies only signed a four-year contract extension at the City Ground in October 2013, eight months after re-joining the club.
Forest have not won in the league in the seven games since they beat Huddersfield on 11 February, and were also knocked out of the FA Cup by League One side Sheffield United.

Winner!

So presumably, they'll have to pay him up 3.5 year's wages as compo for sacking him.

Nice work if you can get it......

I for one would not want Davies, he does the same every time starts like a house on fire then dies a death, leaving a trail behind him in this case banning the media from the ground.

He's a loser that's why he was sacked yet again!! Only you Nat could try to put a positive spin on being so wrong yet again!!

You championed his cause at Forest yet he was sacked explain why this would be a positive mood.?

Should i start you off ? "Wessy you Bellend ............................