How Long Do You Think It'll Take Before Freedman Gets The Boot?

Freedman should be at Everton now according to Boggers.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Why do people worry about being wrong on the internet. 

I thought Wilhelmsson was going to be a brilliant signing too.

I'd rather die than be wrong on the internet.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Why do people worry about being wrong on the internet. 

I thought Wilhelmsson was going to be a brilliant signing too.

I'd rather die than be wrong on the internet.

   

Good to see you are maintaining your integrity, and high standards Nat.

Anyone getting the bed sheets out for the next game?

If he was going to be sacked at all it would have already happened sadly. 

It SHOULD have happened in May but now it's just not possible for me to believe gartside should stay either. My opinion (as I do not actually know) is that Gartside is praying for a miracle in this season that allows him to keep his job after four successive disastrous management appointments. As such he won't admit DF is a disaster at all; he'll hope something amazing happens then if it doesn't he'll try to absolve himself of blame by saying he stuck by Dougie in the interests of stability and not going into knee jerk reactions. 

Personally I suspect we may just see PG and DF go together, I'm certainly hoping so because in my opinion the true incompetence is in the chairman's office and as long as the current incumbent is in there things will only get worse.

karlypants wrote:Anyone getting the bed sheets out for the next game?

Sadly I see no point karly. We can protest til we're blue in the face. Nothing will move PG and given the deafening silence from the Isle of Man it seems ED is content to leave things as they are although I cannot see how or why.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:If he was going to be sacked at all it would have already happened sadly. 

It SHOULD have happened in May but now it's just not possible for me to believe gartside should stay either. My opinion (as I do not actually know) is that Gartside is praying for a miracle in this season that allows him to keep his job after four successive disastrous management appointments. As such he won't admit DF is a disaster at all; he'll hope something amazing happens then if it doesn't he'll try to absolve himself of blame by saying he stuck by Dougie in the interests of stability and not going into knee jerk reactions. 

Personally I suspect we may just see PG and DF go together, I'm certainly hoping so because in my opinion the true incompetence is in the chairman's office and as long as the current incumbent is in there things will only get worse.

It should have happened in May? After our best run of the season? Can't agree with that, if they were going to sack him it was after Reading or the poor run at the start of last season.

PG will sack Dougie if he gets the word from Eddie, not before.

If he sets up defensively at home as he did against lesser opposition last season, the natives will become so hostile, GArtside won't have any options.

bwfc1874 wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:If he was going to be sacked at all it would have already happened sadly. 

It SHOULD have happened in May but now it's just not possible for me to believe gartside should stay either. My opinion (as I do not actually know) is that Gartside is praying for a miracle in this season that allows him to keep his job after four successive disastrous management appointments. As such he won't admit DF is a disaster at all; he'll hope something amazing happens then if it doesn't he'll try to absolve himself of blame by saying he stuck by Dougie in the interests of stability and not going into knee jerk reactions. 

Personally I suspect we may just see PG and DF go together, I'm certainly hoping so because in my opinion the true incompetence is in the chairman's office and as long as the current incumbent is in there things will only get worse.

It should have happened in May? After our best run of the season? Can't agree with that, if they were going to sack him it was after Reading or the poor run at the start of last season.

PG will sack Dougie if he gets the word from Eddie, not before.

I would have sacked him before Christmas myself but since he survived the Reading fiasco yes I would have done it in May. Basically his backside was saved by loan signings but with a full transfer window in front of us I'd have potted him on the last day of the season and brought someone else in to use the three months to (a) assess what we had and (b) strengthen us where we all knew we needed to strengthen. Dougie clearly failed (and was always going to) in both areas. I know the window's still open but frankly the obvious need for at least one striker has been staring us in the face all summer as has been the fact we weren't going to get Juke from the moment 'Boro said they wanted actual money for him and not two packets of Walkers crisps and a pastie. He and his back room team have yet again left us starting a season unbalanced, unmotivated and now it looks like we have another season like last one to "look forward" (using the term advisedly) to. As to our best run, yes it was based on the back of loanees coming in to save us for the second season in a row. It's not a trick that will work forever but it seems to be the only one he and his team know. Frankly I'd sack him now but as I already said it won't happen while he has even a day left on his deal because ED won't do the glaringly obvious and sack PG first.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Basically his backside was saved by loan signings but with a full transfer window in front of us I'd have potted him on the last day of the season and brought someone else in to use the three months to (a) assess what we had and (b) strengthen us where we all knew we needed to strengthen. Dougie clearly failed (and was always going to) in both areas. I know the window's still open but frankly the obvious need for at least one striker has been staring us in the face all summer as has been the fact we weren't going to get Juke from the moment 'Boro said they wanted actual money for him and not two packets of Walkers crisps and a pastie. He and his back room team have yet again left us starting a season unbalanced, unmotivated and now it looks like we have another season like last one to "look forward" (using the term advisedly) to. As to our best run, yes it was based on the back of loanees coming in to save us for the second season in a row. It's not a trick that will work forever but it seems to be the only one he and his team know. Frankly I'd sack him now but as I already said it won't happen while he has even a day left on his deal because ED won't do the glaringly obvious and sack PG first.

So he was only saved by being decent in the transfer market and getting in some good loans, you'd then sack him before a transfer window? 

Do you think it was down to Dougie that we didn't get Juke? ie Do you think it's his fault we couldn't get the transfer fee together?

Clearly Im being a twat and I think what you're saying is ridiculous. Because (again) I think the criticisms are unfair, he doesn't decide the transfer budget the reports all say we've had plenty of targets we haven't got because we can't get the money together. What he seems determined not to do is waste money a la Coyle band Megson, stubborn enough to hold out for quality not quantity is important.

The issue is with his selection this weekend which was way off and possibly motivation although I wasn't at the game so Im not going to judge that either way. I think what you've criticised above is very unfair.

bwfc1874 wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Basically his backside was saved by loan signings but with a full transfer window in front of us I'd have potted him on the last day of the season and brought someone else in to use the three months to (a) assess what we had and (b) strengthen us where we all knew we needed to strengthen. Dougie clearly failed (and was always going to) in both areas. I know the window's still open but frankly the obvious need for at least one striker has been staring us in the face all summer as has been the fact we weren't going to get Juke from the moment 'Boro said they wanted actual money for him and not two packets of Walkers crisps and a pastie. He and his back room team have yet again left us starting a season unbalanced, unmotivated and now it looks like we have another season like last one to "look forward" (using the term advisedly) to. As to our best run, yes it was based on the back of loanees coming in to save us for the second season in a row. It's not a trick that will work forever but it seems to be the only one he and his team know. Frankly I'd sack him now but as I already said it won't happen while he has even a day left on his deal because ED won't do the glaringly obvious and sack PG first.

So he was only saved by being decent in the transfer market and getting in some good loans, you'd then sack him before a transfer window? 

Do you think it was down to Dougie that we didn't get Juke? ie Do you think it's his fault we couldn't get the transfer fee together?

Clearly Im being a twat and I think what you're saying is ridiculous. Because (again) I think the criticisms are unfair, he doesn't decide the transfer budget the reports all say we've had plenty of targets we haven't got because we can't get the money together. What he seems determined not to do is waste money a la Coyle band Megson, stubborn enough to hold out for quality not quantity is important.

The issue is with his selection this weekend which was way off and possibly motivation although I wasn't at the game so Im not going to judge that either way. I think what you've criticised above is very unfair.

No, my criticism is nothing to do with finances. It's all to do with the trend we've seen over the last two years. Also with the fact that among the permanent players there is no fight or spirit as well as a dreadful lack of cohesion and quality. The loanees who came in did well and I give Dougie credit for bringing them here BUT there performances saved a club from relegation not once but TWICE when it should not have been necessary given the strength we already had here. 

The truth is the loanees were playing for their own careers either in terms of getting a permanent deal here, a better crack at the first team in their parent club or to put themselves in the shop window so to speak. I take nothing away from their performances BUT we simply CANNOT expect it to save us every time. Even on the loan front we've seen mixed results. Juke was awesome, Mason poor the first time decent the second and Trotter was and remains woeful. 

This summer we have not addressed the screamingly obvious need for a quality striker at all and we're going to pay for that in a big way. The defence is still shambolically disorganised and the midfield is basically a large collection of at best average players who don't look remotely coherent. 

Pre-season showed their were and still are major problems to be sorted and Watford only made those problems even more glaringly obvious. That's everything to do with management and coaching and nothing to do with finances. 

Ultimately a manager has to make the best of what he has and can get week in week out not hope a few january loanees will pull us away from danger every year. Dougie has failed and as long as he's here with Gartside this club is going down further. I truly believe that come May 2015 if things stay as they are we WILL be relegated to League One. That's not because of Saturday; it's because of the evidence of the last two years.

Lost the plot again last Night, i was sat close to him, when Beckford misses another chance late on, he was waving his ARM up at him shouting Jack?  Whatever that means, he couldnt Keep still and looked like he didnt have a clue..

scottjames30 wrote:Lost the plot again last Night, i was sat close to him, when Beckford misses another chance late on, he was waving his ARM up at him shouting Jack?  Whatever that means

This could be the problem he doesn't know the players names.

wanderlust wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Hard to say when it's pretty unclear what target he's been given. I can't see us getting any higher than 7th-12th unless we see something change in the transfer market. Whether most fans find this acceptable is debatable really.

I'm not sure about acceptable, but it's realistic. Could even be optimistic if Dougie has to keep slashing the wage bill even further and can't get a decent finisher in.

If Dougie's been given a target of finishing higher than that whilst having to make all these cutbacks I think the Board are dreaming and there'd be no point in getting rid as nobody could expect to get into the playoffs under those circumstances.

After last night's debacle I'm even more convinced that this is the case. Despite effectively giving Bury a two man advantage by playing Pratley and Trotter together in front of the back 4, we still created chances notably for Beckford. What a different story it would have been if we had a finisher who could put them away. 
If Dougie gets in a quality finisher I think that we'll have enough to win a few games and extend Dougie's stay with us. Without tactical flexibility we'll never challenge for promotion, but we could be average with a striker.
Without one we're dead in the water - and Dougie will be gone.

wanderlust wrote:

After last night's debacle I'm even more convinced that this is the case. Despite effectively giving Bury a two man advantage by playing Pratley and Trotter together in front of the back 4, we still created chances notably for Beckford. What a different story it would have been if we had a finisher who could put them away. 
If Dougie gets in a quality finisher I think that we'll have enough to win a few games and extend Dougie's stay with us. Without tactical flexibility we'll never challenge for promotion, but we could be average with a striker.
Without one we're dead in the water - and Dougie will be gone.

So do you finally accept Dougie picks stupid teams?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

After last night's debacle I'm even more convinced that this is the case. Despite effectively giving Bury a two man advantage by playing Pratley and Trotter together in front of the back 4, we still created chances notably for Beckford. What a different story it would have been if we had a finisher who could put them away. 
If Dougie gets in a quality finisher I think that we'll have enough to win a few games and extend Dougie's stay with us. Without tactical flexibility we'll never challenge for promotion, but we could be average with a striker.
Without one we're dead in the water - and Dougie will be gone.

So do you finally accept Dougie picks stupid teams?

Do you finally accept that you completely make up things that I write and put words into my mouth in order to make some spurious point?

I have never suggested that Dougie is tactically brilliant, have consistently said that whilst there is nothing intrinsically wrong with 4231 it requires specific players that we don't possess to make it work well and have pointed out that Dougie appears to be stubbornly sticking with it despite the player situation.

So as I have consistently questioned Dougie's tactics for the last year or so how come you are even asking me this question?

Is it because I make a distinction between the facts and the speculation that you make these erroneous assumptions?

So you admit he's clueless at setting up a team but you don't want him sacked?

Morning all. As I said last night I missed most of the game and only heard radio commentary on the second half of extra time. 

But if even wanderlust thinks we lacked so much cohesion or a workable game plan that it's enough to make him mad I suspect I have reason to be grateful for spending five hours in a call centre taking orders for fondue sets

More seriously and without having a dig at anyone were we really that woeful? I heard the commentators saying Bury were hard done to. Is that really the case or was it a touch of hyperbole?

It must be getting close now, he has lost the dressing room, tick tock tick tock.