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Animal cruelty: I despair.

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1Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Animal cruelty: I despair. on Mon Jul 14 2014, 21:33

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

2Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Mon Jul 14 2014, 22:10

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm not going to read it, it will make me angry.

3Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Mon Jul 14 2014, 22:11

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Not sure why I opened that link  affraid

4Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Mon Jul 14 2014, 22:25

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
This kind of treatment is one of the reasons why I wish I could become a total vegetarian. As human beings we really should show more compassion to other creatures that inhabit the world. Animals have no voice.

5Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Mon Jul 14 2014, 23:17

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Disgusting,vile,evil,cruel bastards.

6Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 08:02

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Interesting that the response from some Aussie states was to seek legislation that would stop folk filming animal abuse.
Money over morality.

7Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 09:44

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Right...

Dont bite my head off, im not condoning this at all, just want to put a different slant on it...

I'm not saying animal abuse does not happen - I know it does and its unnecessary and disgusting, but have any of you actually tried sheering sheep? I have and its not easy, they need a bit of 'rough treatment', they are nigh on impossible to keep still under any circumstances - and they are VERY strong - it usually looks a lot worse than it actually is. There are 3 very large farms in my family that keep dairy and beef cattle, sheep and free-range chickens (one even supplies free-range eggs to a major UK supermarket chain) so im talking about this with a bit of experience in the subject.

The sheep you see getting stitched - the sheers are sharp and if you have a sheep that is writhing around all over the place, its likely to get cut - its not abuse, its an unfortunate fact. Usually when they need stitches, they get an injection similar to the one that the dentist gives you when you have a filling, il be honest - I don't know if this animal had that or not - just saying.

The punching and kicking seems a little over the top but again - Sheep are strong animals and need rough treatment so they can be sheered. If the shearers were too soft with them, they would never get the wool or the sheep would actually get more cuts.

How many of you actually own a woolen item of clothing? I guarantee that some form of what you consider to be 'abuse' would have happened to obtain the wool you put on your back. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, there is an entire industry that is dedicated to feeding and clothing you - the start of that chain is usually the farming industry.

The meat you have for dinner, the clothes you wear, the milk you drink, the eggs you eat (if you think this is bad, the seriously, don't Google what goes on at a battery farm [non-free-range chickens]) - all comes from farms were things happen that a person who has never been exposed to farming would call abuse.

If the sheep were left alone and not sheered, not only would we not have any wool to make clothes with (among hundreds of other products) but the sheep would DIE from heat exhaustion in summer - therefore ,the options we have available to us are to sheer them several times during their lifetimes so they have a nice summer mooching around the fields and moors in summer or we kill them first and just get one yield of wool per sheep ever - could you justify this?

Farmers are capable of doing something that most people cant - Differentiating between PETS and LIVESTOCK, like it or not, livestock is there to make money/food/clothing from, pets are there to cuddle and love.

If your family dog becomes ill - you despair, same as a farmer would but, if an item of livestock stops yielding (Sheep stops producing wool, cow stops producing milk, chicken will not lay eggs) then they are killed and usually end up in pedigree chum cans. Its cruel but its a fact.

Animals are abused worse than this is the drugs and medical research industry - if we didn't do it, research would never take place and we would still have horrible diseases running riot and many humans would die.  

In closing, id also like to say that the Hippy groups like PETA and other animal rights groups are idiots who will happily kill and maim thousands of humans, release or prevent the research in to diseases that thousands of children would potentially die from just to save 1 lab-rat. They are scum that needs to be banned in the same way that extremist terrorist groups have to be banned as that is what they are - terrorists. PETA may have a corporate face, but its a breeding ground for hippy terrorists. They are also no strangers to creating propaganda - this video would have been professionally edited prior to release to create the most outrage possible to support their cause.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/02/usda-classifies-peta-as-a_n_376841.html

8Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 11:09

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I fully accept that the eating of animals is part of everyday life throughout the world but I do think animals prepared for slaughter should be killed as humanely as possible.

Compassion in World Farming do a very decent job for anyone who may be interested in the welfare of farm animals.

9Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 13:08

Guest


Guest
@Reebok_Rebel wrote:In closing, id also like to say that the Hippy groups like PETA and other animal rights groups are idiots who will happily kill and maim thousands of humans, release or prevent the research in to diseases that thousands of children would potentially die from just to save 1 lab-rat. They are scum that needs to be banned in the same way that extremist terrorist groups have to be banned as that is what they are - terrorists. PETA may have a corporate face, but its a breeding ground for hippy terrorists. They are also no strangers to creating propaganda - this video would have been professionally edited prior to release to create the most outrage possible to support their cause.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/02/usda-classifies-peta-as-a_n_376841.html

You make some fair point up until this paragraph where you show your true feelings. Simplifying the work these 'hippies' do into saving a lab rat that would have saved thousands of children is ridiculous. What about the countless animals that are kept for testing cosmetics on? Monkeys, dogs etc. Don't be so small minded.

And Peta edited that video? The sheep were being punched and thrown to the ground you can't edit that into it without completely changing the footage.

10Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 13:52

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ok Rebel,we know how strong and difficult animals can be,trying to bath my Springer is a living hell,but I've never resorted to unspeakable violence. If it's just a fact of life that they have to be dealt with in this way the people presently being jailed for abusing elderly dementia sufferers in care homes have a valid excuse for their actions. These patients  too can be strong,awkward,argumentative,and a thorough pain in the arse to deal with,so they need a slap or a punch now and again. Is that how it works? Is this the way they control their kids? Compassion is a necessity not a luxury,and if you can't shear a sheep without resorting to this,you're in the wrong job.

11Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:02

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Bonce, Like I said, im not saying the people on the video are innocent, im just putting a different angle on it. They went a bit too far and I think they should be reprimanded for that and forced to find employment elsewhere... but why did PETA keep this footage for so long before releasing it? Why not just release it as soon as they got it, Its been edited by professionals - PETA can afford any propaganda it wants and go to great lengths to get their message across, even making posters like the below, some targeted towards primary school age children...

Animal cruelty: I despair. Peta+%281%29


Animal cruelty: I despair. Hol3od1

Animal cruelty: I despair. Daddykills

Animal cruelty: I despair. Peta_ad
Animal cruelty: I despair. Peta_Comic_Book

The activist wing of PETA is the Animal Liberation Front... PETA will deny any involvement and not condone any violence they commit - however, its pretty obvious that they are funded by PETA, in fact they have actually admitted to providing funding for 'direct action' carried out by the ALF. The way the ALF is ran makes it difficult to stop them. I've come across so called 'peace and animal loving hippies' in the past - at fox hunts and game shoots, they are only 'friendly and hippyish' towards animals and other animal loving hippies - If they can get away with it they will kill or maim anyone who does not believe in there ideology - a stupid ideology as Humans are natural meat-eaters. Bombmakers and Locksmiths are held in high regard within the ALF. 

I love animals - I like them even better when they are on a plate in front of me, sorry but I do. Meat isn't murder, its food.

PETA believes you shouldn't keep Pets - why? I have 3 dogs, One of them is a 'working dog' and all 3 are happy as Larry. They would actually have me perform euthanasia them to give them there freedom back - what a pathetic and flawed view that is. 

I dont agree with causing unnecessary suffering to animals, not at all - im actually against fox hunting using dogs - I prefer lamping them and shooting them with a high velocity .22 round. Whether certain people like it or not, certain animals numbers need to be controlled have you seen how much damage Wood Pigeon and Crow/jackdaw/Rook do to newly seeded fields? they can destroy entire crop yields in hours - a crop yield that the farmer will be relying on for his livelihood. same with Mr Fox - foxes are horrible, have you seen what they do to Lambs? or even worse - chickens? A fox is unlike no other animal in that it enjoys killing - a fox gets in to a chicken coop and it will eat 3 or 4 chickens till its full... then it will stay and rip apart every last chicken in there before it leaves, its a sickening sight. PETA would carry on letting things like this happen - People whose livelihoods rely on it wont. 

Animal testing - Again, im against unnecessary suffering, but, fundamentally and however brutal this sounds - id rather a cream or other product burned the face or caused the untimely death of an animal than my children - im sure any parent would.

To say PETA and the ALF are pathetic, check out this quote from one of PETA's founders Ingrid Newark on Animal Testing ... "Newark told Vogue magazine in 1989 that even if it resulted in a cure for AIDS, PETA would oppose it, The group believes that it is wasteful and would rather pursue other options like human embryonic stem cell  research"

So... to summarize, PETA are happy with using human embryos, just not animals...  Suspect  

Deviated slightly from the OP a bit here, sorry... but I hate animal rights activists, I just dont get it. The reason Humans are more or less at the top of the food chain is due to our natural instincts to hunt, gather, make homes, clothes and food - mainly using animals.

12Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:13

Guest


Guest
Claiming to love animals whilst fox hunting is like being a Jewish Nazi. What a load of tripe, what you've essentially written above is I don't like PETA because they don't agree with me and my toff mates not having anything better to do with our lives. Trying to justify it with, foxes enjoy killing is just about the most deluded piece of 'logic' I've ever read.

13Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:13

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok Trotter wrote:I fully accept that the eating of animals is part of everyday life throughout the world but I do think animals prepared for slaughter should be killed as humanely as possible.


That's a bit like a rapist who wears a condom.

14Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:22

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok_Rebel wrote:

I love animals - I like them even better when they are on a plate in front of me, sorry but I do. Meat isn't murder, its food.

PETA believes you shouldn't keep Pets - why? I have 3 dogs, One of them is a 'working dog' and all 3 are happy as Larry.

I dont agree with causing unnecessary suffering to animals, not at all - I prefer lamping them and shooting them with a high velocity .22 round.

Animal testing - Again, im against unnecessary suffering, but id rather a cream or other product burned the face or caused the untimely death of an animal than my children - im sure any parent would.


I laughed out loud at your post Rebel. If it was a WUM post it was extremely funny, if it was genuinely your thoughts on this subject then I suggest you put a bullet through your brain right now - scumbags like you should be rounded up and shot.

Just out of interest, how do you know your dogs are happy as Larry? Have they told you? If they'd experienced a life of freedom do you think they'd choose it over a life in the Rebel household? Of course they would you plonker.

And you're happy that animals suffer just so Rebel Jnr can smear her face in the latest trendy make-up? You utter bellend.

Give me your address, I want to organise a Rebel Hunt so we can chase you through the streets and rip you to pieces.

15Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:26

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bwfc1874 wrote:Claiming to love animals whilst fox hunting is like being a Jewish Nazi. What a load of tripe, what you've essentially written above is I don't like PETA because they don't agree with me and my toff mates not having anything better to do with our lives. Trying to justify it with, foxes enjoy killing is just about the most deluded piece of 'logic' I've ever read.
Did you even read my post?

I'm not a Toff.

Its a fact - foxes destroy farmers livestock and thus their finances, so if you were a farmer and saw a fox heading for your chicken shed's you would think...

"oh drat, wife, there is a fox, lets go to bed and check the damage in the morning, hopefully il have some chickens left"

Would you bugger... you would shoot the fucker.

I assume your ok with me shooting Birds though as I didn't get a pile of abuse for that bit...?

16Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:26

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Sadly,the many animal rights activists I've met have been complete nutters,in the worst sense of the word.and I understand where you're coming from. One of my best mates was a farmer,and a more caring man it would be hard to find.I don't think anyone is asking farmers to love their livestock,simply to treat them with a fitting level of care and compassion. Film of these lab chimps,freed after being caged for 30 years is sad yet uplifting. And more than a little shaming.

17Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:28

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok_Rebel wrote:
Did you even read my post?

I'm not a Toff.

Its a fact - foxes destroy farmers livestock and thus their finances, so if you were a farmer and saw a fox heading for your chicken shed's you would think...

"oh drat, wife, there is a fox, lets go to bed and check the damage in the morning, hopefully il have some chickens left"

Would you bugger... you would shoot the fucker.


Not a toff but love farmers? Aren't they the same thing?

You bellend Rebel, did a fox sexually assault you when you were younger?

18Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:33

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@Reebok_Rebel wrote:

I love animals - I like them even better when they are on a plate in front of me, sorry but I do. Meat isn't murder, its food.

PETA believes you shouldn't keep Pets - why? I have 3 dogs, One of them is a 'working dog' and all 3 are happy as Larry.

I dont agree with causing unnecessary suffering to animals, not at all - I prefer lamping them and shooting them with a high velocity .22 round.

Animal testing - Again, im against unnecessary suffering, but id rather a cream or other product burned the face or caused the untimely death of an animal than my children - im sure any parent would.


I laughed out loud at your post Rebel. If it was a WUM post it was extremely funny, if it was genuinely your thoughts on this subject then I suggest you put a bullet through your brain right now - scumbags like you should be rounded up and shot.

Just out of interest, how do you know your dogs are happy as Larry? Have they told you? If they'd experienced a life of freedom do you think they'd choose it over a life in the Rebel household? Of course they would you plonker.

And you're happy that animals suffer just so Rebel Jnr can smear her face in the latest trendy make-up? You utter bellend.

Give me your address, I want to organise a Rebel Hunt so we can chase you through the streets and rip you to pieces.
 Rolling Eyes

The shitstirer is back.


Yes, I did try to pop a few slightly humorous tongue-in-cheek comments in there.
 
Again - I said I didn't condone, never have condoned and would never go after fox with dogs. its inhumane.

I know my dogs are happy - I can tell, they are healthy, get food laid on for them and have a warm bed - they wouldn't last 5 mins in the wild, nobody's dog would - they are not aware of how to hunt anymore and thus would starve to death, but if a world full of stray dogs would please you then fair enough. or would you rather a mass pet dog cull take place. 

Yes - im sorry if it pisses you off, but as a former model im sure you would have worn a brand of make up that has a past history of utilizing animal testing? If there are NO CONCLUSIVE ALTERNATIVES tio animal testing - then yes, lets do it - in the most humane way possible. surely as a catholic you would rather we didn't use human Embryos instead would you?

19Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:40

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Reebok_Rebel wrote: surely as a catholic you would rather we didn't use human Embryos instead would you?

We should use humans with the mental capacity to understand what they are doing (rules you out Rebel, unfortunately).

I'm sure there are loads of students out there who would happily sign up to have their face smeared with rat poison if it got them beer money for the weekend.

20Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:45

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@boltonbonce wrote:Sadly,the many animal rights activists I've met have been complete nutters,in the worst sense of the word.and I understand where you're coming from. One of my best mates was a farmer,and a more caring man it would be hard to find.I don't think anyone is asking farmers to love their livestock,simply to treat them with a fitting level of care and compassion. Film of these lab chimps,freed after being caged for 30 years is sad yet uplifting. And more than a little shaming.
Thats fair enough.

I get no pleasure from animals being hurt, if you read my posts ive never once stated that - except maybe when talking about animal testing but I said only when absolutely necessary.

I just dont get the Animal rights movement at all.

21Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:46

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Jesus. I just read this shite. I should know better.

22Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 16:58

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@Natasha Whittam wrote:
@Reebok_Rebel wrote: surely as a catholic you would rather we didn't use human Embryos instead would you?

We should use humans with the mental capacity to understand what they are doing (rules you out Rebel, unfortunately).

I'm sure there are loads of students out there who would happily sign up to have their face smeared with rat poison if it got them beer money for the weekend.
You know Nat - to be a student you have to have at least a modicum of intelligence. 

If Humans want to do it - then fine, humans do in fact test a lot of shit - companies like AstraZenica  carry out voluntary human testing for drugs.

Now, regarding this - its only carried out under conditions that are deemed relatively safe towards life - otherwise due to the voluntary basis of the testing - if it wasn't, lots of ethical cans of worms would be opened... As a devout Christian, surely you can see that somebody volunteering for a pontentially dangerous clinital trial could be seen as an attempt to endanger their own god given existence (a sin)  or even a suicide attempt. SO again, I dont know how you can condone this.

As a Christian, im sure you will even agree to what god tells us in the book of Genesis - that  we can Kill animals and use them to feed and cloth us...

Genesis 1:26-28
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image,  male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

23Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:05

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Fair enough Rebel.but you're forgetting that God doesn't exist. But if he did,what a prick!

24Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:08

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:Fair enough Rebel.but you're forgetting that God doesn't exist. But if he did,what a prick!

Blasphemy!

Your death threat is now official. Watch your (hairy) back.

25Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:10

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
@boltonbonce wrote:Fair enough Rebel.but you're forgetting that God doesn't exist. But if he did,what a prick!
Nat believes God does exist ...

God is helping my argument.

Leave god alone.

26Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:11

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Bloody hell! A yellow card would have sufficed.Animal cruelty: I despair. Smiley-scared003

27Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:16

Reebok_Rebel

Reebok_Rebel
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Sorry Bonce,

Looks like Nats done a runner again, she always does that when losing a discussion.  :toppoints:  :zzz:

28Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:21

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm off to hide in a cupboard.

29Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:31

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I actually agree with some of Rebels comments. My brother has a shotgun certificate and as well as shooting clay pigeons at Worsley woods he knows two farmers who let him shoot on their land. The wood pigeons cause devastation to crops and the foxes, crows and magpies are a threat to their livestock. If the birds are allowed to devastate the crop then there is no food to take to the market. Certain creatures are classed as vermin and pests and as such the farmer is legally within his rights to protect his crops. Rats are another bloody nuisance as well. Most farmers are not toffs. They are hard working people trying to earn a living.

30Animal cruelty: I despair. Empty Re: Animal cruelty: I despair. on Tue Jul 15 2014, 17:49

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Used to spend a lot of time in worsley woods. I'm told it's a dogging site now. Anyone know if that's true? Rolling Eyes

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