Biggest game of the season

Hipster_Nebula wrote:How does a club measure it's "bigness."

Average gate is a good indication if you're comparing teams in the same league.

going by that theory North Korea would be the "biggest" football nation in the world.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:going by that theory North Korea would be the "biggest" football nation in the world.

You're just being a prick as well. Right now Blackpool and Bolton are similar sized clubs, but I suspect that Blackpool are that tiny bit bigger.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I'll wager you a little bet right now LH. Blackpool finish above us next season and have a higher average attendance.

So long as we're talking about home league games for the attendances, you're on.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:going by that theory North Korea would be the "biggest" football nation in the world.

You're just being a prick as well. Right now Blackpool and Bolton are similar sized clubs, but I suspect that Blackpool are that tiny bit bigger.

So anyone that proves a stupid theory wrong is a prick. Got it.

I'd take Matt Phillips (if he would come) but Dobbie no way - he's an average Championship player at best.

Nat has a point. Blackpool know and understand the Championship, and have proven their ability in it, so lets not be too cocky. We may have been a Premier League club, but we're a failed Premier League club. Nobody from a relatively succesful team will want to join us now, (at least for the next season), more likely we will get youngsters trying to improve, or old timers on their way out.

Also, good luck to Sam. Even though Gartside slated him, we've seen that he does have the ability, and he picked a very big window to show it. I find it ironic that the manager and at least 3 of the players were ex-Bolton. It says a lot for our vision and forward planning does it not?

gloswhite wrote:I find it ironic that the manager and at least 3 of the players were ex-Bolton. It says a lot for our vision and forward planning does it not?

No, it does not.

All 5 of those players moved on at the right time for BWFC and at least 3 of them aren't good enough for the PL.

Not true. 'Moved on at the right time for BWFRC' ? I'm assuming you are saying that we were hokding them back because of our own requirements. To me, thats the same as not developing them.If we looked past the moment, which is what I am saying, they would have improved.. Also, are you telling me that none of those players would have done the job for us in the Premier? Agreed, they need some polishing, particularly Vaz Te, but I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. The Premier is changing, into an elite and also-ran formation. The quality of the PL is now so varied that even those clubs we 'knew' would come straight back down, have a good chance of getting through their first year. You're being very dismissive, and I'm curious on what you base your expert opinion.

BWFRC was a typo,

I don't mean to sound dismissive Gloswhite, I just anticipated that as soon as West Ham got promoted there'd be lots of gushing posts about Sam Allardyce and people would look at the players and view them with a fondness and reverence which belies their ability, contribution in a white shirt and timing of their departure.

I just find your suggestion that letting these players leave demonstrates lack of vision and planning doesn't stack up to fair analysis.

Lets look at the 5 ex Bolton players in question.

Matt Taylor - left Wanderers at the age of 29. Had one year left on his contract. Was a top earner. Someone offered us £2.2m for him. At the time of his departure we had Chung-Yong Lee on the right, Petrov on the left, and Eagles as cover/backup, plus Taylor, who clearly wasn't going to improve no matter how much "development" was offered.

Joey O'Brien - rightly given a free transfer as he is a crock. Signed as a free agent by West Ham, where he has proven to still be a crock.

Kevin Nolan - left Wanderers aged 27 for £4m. Wasn't going to improve as a footballer in any significant way. He had completely gone off the boil and needed a move. I believe it suited both parties for him to move on when he did. Others may differ, though I do recall him also being maligned and singled out for criticism week in, week out, after 2 years of poor form.

Abdoulaye Faye - similar to Taylor, left Wanderers at the age of 29 for about £2m. He is now 34 and not even first choice for West Ham. 3 months later, we replaced him with Gary Cahill. That's my idea of forward planning and vision.

Ricardo Vaz Te - 3 league goals in 7 years, a terrible injury record, never looked fit, and rightly let go in light of the facts. Seems to have matured as a footballer now, and good luck to him, but just like Jonathan Walters, you can't keep afford to keep hold of average young players 'just in case' they come good. And remember, he has done NOTHING at Premier League level yet.

Big Sam has spent a lot of money at West Ham, they took a gamble at promotion at the first attempt and it has paid off. The signings above - alongside others - show that Sam has not planned for the future this season, he has cobbled together a group of ageing, experienced players to do a job, and I think you will find this Summer he will have to start all over again to try and keep them up, which is why he will sign 8+ players. It's the antithesis of forward planning and vision, it's chucking money at a situation and reactive, not proactive, management.

As soon as the big money loan and free transfers dried up for Wanderers, Sam started to struggle and demanded multi-million pound signings to replace them. Sam is a lot of good things but a forward planner is not one of them.

This post from bwfc1874 in another thread sums up exactly what I am talking about.

bwfc1874 wrote:
I disagree, we should be looking to pick up some of the better young players in the championship and league 1, that is the model that Norwich have followed and look how that's paid off for them. There's plenty of talent in the lower leagues it just takes a good eye to spot who is capable of playing at a higher level. Signing released players means big wages and over 30 most of the time, we need young players on low wages with potential resale value.

LH, in fairness, you're spot on. Your view of BSA backs up my own that he didn't plan long-term, instead he ramped up the machinery in the background to get as much as he could out of the same players. I think he realised that he required major spending and reformation, and took the route of least difficulty.Having said that, I also believe that the likes of Nolan, with hindsight, could have lasted longer, if the Alladyce way of thinking hadn't been allowed to run for as long as it did. I still feel that we missed a trick, somewhere along the line, althoutgh putting my finger on it isn't easy.

Gloswhite, in my opinion, the two pieces of poor management that ultimately resulted in our relegation are nothing to do with Sam Allardyce.

Here is why we are now a Championship club:

1. The signing of a 27 year old unproven Swedish striker for £11m on a 3 year contract by Gary Megson. Of COURSE he was going to walk at the end of that 3 years.

2. The failure to sell or tie-down Gary Cahill in Summer 2010 by Owen Coyle. Of COURSE he wasn't going to sign a new contract in 2011 and we would be forced to sell him on the cheap.

These two failures cost us £20m in incoming transfer fees, which should have been our transfer budget for the whole of last season and the season before. Without this money we could not strengthen the squad with Premier League players.

And this is why we are playing Peterborough and Brighton & Hove Albion next season and potentially several seasons.

I didn't think BSA could be bleamed for relegation, but feel that the current situation is shows how myopic our management have been over the years. Sam was quite the opposite, he jumped when he could see that the ship was starting to leak, especially as all his crew were too knackered to do anything about it.

Fair enough, I was just talking in terms of two glaring errors of forward planning which have cost us dearly.

It will be interesting to see who Sam signs this Summer. Besides all the old duffers he also had an army of players on loan last season - FL rules on loan players are much more relaxed than PL rules.

You're allowed a maximum of 8 from all other leagues of which 4 are Under 23 and 4 are over 23. You're allowed a maximum of 5 from any one club of which 3 are under 23 and 2 over 23. No more than 5 loanees can be named on a teamsheet for any single match. So you can have half your team consisting of others clubs' players. All three of Reading, Southampton and West Ham milked this allowance.

I guarantee you Coyle will have been on the blower to all sorts of managers about loan players for next season, starting with Arsenal and Chelsea.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Vaz Te performs for West Ham in the Prem. Big sam obviously saw something in him which no-one else did.

Credit BSA for getting West Ham up but it would have been a massive massive failure had he not.

they've outspent many prem clubs and have sucked the loan market dry, the turnaround of players at West Ham was utterly obscene.

In January i think they had bids in for every single player who'd scored 10 or more goals at championship level and they thought they could attract Carlos Tevez to "come home"

I'm delighted we don't have to play them next year, utter fantasists for fans and make me sick.

I am almost as interested in who Allardyce signs as who Coyle signs. BSA wasn't the best manager in the world but he was the best we have had (insert recently if you feel the need). He made the most of the resources available to him unlike Lee, Megson and Coyle and was innovative in some areas. I understand the criticism that he didn't plan for the future but realistically he got results - as he has done with West Ham. The biggest what if for me is what if he had been given the money that Lee and Megson wasted. We may not have joined the top 4/6 but I think we would still be in the Prem.