Sorry...but fuck off, we are full already. Its the greeks turn now in the UK free for all...

Hello and welcome Yesbutno.

Always good to attract new posters with strong convictions.

How would you suggest that we get out of this Euro mess that we seem to have got ourselves into?

If we're still drumming up new punters on Twitter, we ought to highlight this thread. At a casual glance it gives the impression the forum is full of hot clunge.

yesbutno wrote:Unfortunatly there are some people who will read comments like Michael's and believe it because they want to think bad of europe. We make our own laws in this country same as everywhere else.

We might make our own laws but as a result of the Maastricht treaty we signed our sovereignty over to Brussels.

Also, we seem to be the only country that follows EU diktats to the letter, whereas other countries pick and choose.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

yesbutno wrote:Unfortunatly there are some people who will read comments like Michael's and believe it because they want to think bad of europe. We make our own laws in this country same as everywhere else.

We might make our own laws but as a result of the Maastricht treaty we signed our sovereignty over to Brussels.

Yeah - well said RT. I won't have someone coming on to this forum and trying to make me look a fool within 5 posts.

Michael Bolton wrote:
Yeah - well said RT. I won't have someone coming on to this forum and trying to make me look a fool within 5 posts.

Yeah, it usually only takes two.

Sluffy wrote:How would you suggest that we get out of this Euro mess that we seem to have got ourselves into?

To be fair we didn't get ourselves into it.



With regards to Greece, Spain and Portugal - 90% of the funds they are receiving are from other Euro-zone countries only whilst the other 10% come from the IMF which all 1st world countries contribute to. Even if the Eurozone hadn't had exist then these countries would still have to be bailed out by their neighbours and industrial partners, to which we are. Fortunately, or unfortunately, well over 50% of UK's trade is with the European markets so we would still have had to helped out.



I missed Ireland out as because we trade the most with them, we have helped them out, and continue to do so both with IMF and through trading bonds to help with what they receive from the Eurozone.



With regards to working migrants - Poles, and other Eastern Europeans - to be fair they would have come and gone whether we were a part of EU or not. Plus it was a complete falacy that most of them came to the UK - if anything it was more of an even spread throughout the European countries. Its just when you live in one country and only receive views, blogs etc of what happening closer to home in your country then that the only point of view you will see. Thing is the exact same feelings were felt all over the EU and non-EU European countries.



Nothing would have stopped this recession as it was bad banking deals which was the catalyst for the downturn, along with bad decisions by individual government chancellors and lack of control over the Banks which again was down to numerous bad decisions by the various governments.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

yesbutno wrote:Unfortunatly there are some people who will read comments like Michael's and believe it because they want to think bad of europe. We make our own laws in this country same as everywhere else.

We might make our own laws but as a result of the Maastricht treaty we signed our sovereignty over to Brussels.

Did we?

Howcome we still have the pound; our borders are still there and passports/ID cards have to shown both entering and leaving; we can still make our own laws - if we want; we don't have to get our budget agreed by Brussells; our courts are not bound by Europe - but by many Treaties signed by many countries hence its easier to extract a UK citizen to the US then it is to another EU country! The list goes on.....

The only reason we still have the £ is because the Danes had a referendum and voted to keep their Krona. Our government at the time stated that we would adopt the euro if all member states did likewise. The Danes did us a big favour.

As for passports, you DO NOT need a passport to travel from one EU member state to another. An EU ID card is all you need.

Bit by bit these faceless fcuking bureaucrats are stripping away all the things that we Brits stand for. The majority of them hate us so I don't buy into this 'one big jolly old boys club' bullshit.

Reebok Trotter wrote:The only reason we still have the £ is because the Danes had a referendum and voted to keep their Krona. Our government at the time stated that we would adopt the euro if all member states did likewise. The Danes did us a big favour.

As for passports, you DO NOT need a passport to travel from one EU member state to another. An EU ID card is all you need.

Bit by bit these faceless fcuking bureaucrats are stripping away all the things that we Brits stand for. The majority of them hate us so I don't buy into this 'one big jolly old boys club' bullshit.

your wrong, the cunts decided we cant travel on our ID cards from the UK now...

other people can come here on there's though...

My passport expired a few months ago and I was planning on visiting Amsterdam and Tallinn soon with the lads, and have to spend nigh on 100 quid on a passport renewal...

I believed the government revoking ID cards is simply another way of making a few more quid.

Reebok_Rebel wrote:

your wrong, the cunts decided we cant travel on our ID cards from the UK now...

other people can come here on there's though...

My passport expired a few months ago and I was planning on visiting Amsterdam and Tallinn soon with the lads, and have to spend nigh on 100 quid on a passport renewal...

I believed the government revoking ID cards is simply another way of making a few more quid.

When did the twats change the goalposts ? Surely the whole point of the system is to make it easier for Europeans to pass from one member state to another ?

From what you have said it looks like another case of double standards.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Reebok_Rebel wrote:

your wrong, the cunts decided we cant travel on our ID cards from the UK now...

other people can come here on there's though...

My passport expired a few months ago and I was planning on visiting Amsterdam and Tallinn soon with the lads, and have to spend nigh on 100 quid on a passport renewal...

I believed the government revoking ID cards is simply another way of making a few more quid.

When did the twats change the goalposts ? Surely the whole point of the system is to make it easier for Europeans to pass from one member state to another ?

From what you have said it looks like another case of double standards.

exactly...

I still think the reasons behind it is money making, hundreds of thousands of people have let their passports expire over the past couple of years - including me, the government have clicked on that by making everyone who got the ID cards instead (I think mine cost about 20 quid altogether) purchase a new/renewed passport @ £80-100 ...do the maths. all that lost revenue the home office are missing out on - they want it back!

funny how in Jan 2012 the cards 'expired' and could no longer be used as valid ID...just as the price of passports went up.

obviously, letting other countries residents in using there ID cards would be classed as xenophobic and racist... also they cant make any money out of other countries passports...just ours!

Reebok Trotter wrote:

yesbutno wrote:Unfortunatly there are some people who will read comments like Michael's and believe it because they want to think bad of europe. We make our own laws in this country same as everywhere else.

We might make our own laws but as a result of the Maastricht treaty we signed our sovereignty over to Brussels.

Well I dont know about all the rules and things but I really dont understand this 'we signed away our sovereignty'. What is our sovereignty and how did we sign it away?

I think it is about who has the final say.

We make our own laws, that is true BUT they are subservient (come second) to European law.

Ultimately The European Court in The Hague will rule on appeals against British law - take for example trying to extradite that Islamic cleric who is judge to be a danger to this country.

Never used to be that way pre joining Europe.

yesbutno wrote:
Well I dont know about all the rules and things but I really dont understand this 'we signed away our sovereignty'. What is our sovereignty and how did we sign it away?

The vast majority of British law has been enshrined in statute over hundreds of years by the British people. Many of our laws have been adopted by other countries because they are based on common sense and a sense of fair play.

In the UK , if you have been charged with a criminal offence you have the right to elect to be tried before a judge and jury rather than a magistrates bench. The EU lawlords wish to remove this entitlement for minor offences to free up valuable court time. They are more interested in making sure that any bananas we export conform to a rigid standard of curvature.

Anyone living in the UK who believes that the EU is there to look after the interests of the British people must have rocks in their heads.

Reebok_Rebel wrote:

exactly...

I still think the reasons behind it is money making, hundreds of thousands of people have let their passports expire over the past couple of years - including me, the government have clicked on that by making everyone who got the ID cards instead (I think mine cost about 20 quid altogether) purchase a new/renewed passport @ £80-100 ...do the maths. all that lost revenue the home office are missing out on - they want it back!

funny how in Jan 2012 the cards 'expired' and could no longer be used as valid ID...just as the price of passports went up.

obviously, letting other countries residents in using there ID cards would be classed as xenophobic and racist... also they cant make any money out of other countries passports...just ours!

About eighteen months ago the clerk at my local post office tried to talk me into buying an EU ID card but as my passport still had a few years to run I decided to save my money. He tried to sell it to me on the grounds that I could leave my passport at home and just carry the small plastic EU ID card in my wallet and I could travel anywhere throughout the EU.

A few years ago we were told that diesel was the fuel of the future. Cheaper than petrol and better for the environment. I have always driven a petrol engine car because I thought diesel engines were a bit noisy and I didn't want to fall foul of any EU noise abatement rules.

In 2008, to do my bit fort the environment, I bought a diesel engine car and I now pay more for my fuel than I did for petrol.

Reebok Trotter wrote:
About eighteen months ago the clerk at my local post office tried to talk me into buying an EU ID card

You've raised a pet peeve of mine here. I am fucked off with going into the Post Office to post something and the counter staff trying to sell me something while I am there.

On what planet would I consider buying a credit card, insurance or broadband during this transaction.

I am always on the way somewhere else when I go to the post office. I'm always in a rush. I think many people are the same.

Going into a mobile phone shop and buying a contract phone and them asking you about phone insurance or home phone services is somehow fair game.

Going into a bank and signing up for an account and them asking you about a credit card is also somehow fair game.

Going into a travel agents and booking a holiday and being asked about holiday insurance is also somehow fair game.

As you may know, I hate being sold to anyway, but some times it is more tolerable or understandable than others.

I was at a music festival once and the scruffiest, smelliest twat I had ever seen in my life stopped me on a walk way trying to get me to sign up to Greenpeace.

His killer line was, "we don't want any money from you, but for you to set up a little direct debit mandate". Wonderful. Now you've said that, sure, here are all my personal details, my bank sort code and account number and a copy of my signature, you dirty fucker.

largehat wrote:

You've raised a pet peeve of mine here. I am fucked off with going into the Post Office to post something and the counter staff trying to sell me something while I am there.

On what planet would I consider buying a credit card, insurance or broadband during this transaction.

I am always on the way somewhere else when I go to the post office. I'm always in a rush. I think many people are the same.

Going into a mobile phone shop and buying a contract phone and them asking you about phone insurance or home phone services is somehow fair game.

Going into a bank and signing up for an account and them asking you about a credit card is also somehow fair game.

Going into a travel agents and booking a holiday and being asked about holiday insurance is also somehow fair game.

As you may know, I hate being sold to anyway, but some times it is more tolerable or understandable than others.

I was at a music festival once and the scruffiest, smelliest twat I had ever seen in my life stopped me on a walk way trying to get me to sign up to Greenpeace.

His killer line was, "we don't want any money from you, but for you to set up a little direct debit mandate". Wonderful. Now you've said that, sure, here are all my personal details, my bank sort code and account number and a copy of my signature, you dirty fucker.

You are absolutely bang on the mark. Every fcuker and his brother is out there, actively employed to sell you some pile of shite that you neither want nor need.

I have had double glazing for over twenty years but I still get the random unsolicited phone call from Johnny Foreigner trying to sell me double glazing or a conservatory. I live in a two up two down terrace FFS. If I had a conservatory they would have to demolish my shitter!

Plus my neighbours will think I am a right pretentious twat.

I bank with Barclays and whenever I go into my local branch and pay in a cheque, on completion the gorgeous filly behind the counter always hits me with, ' Is there anything else I can do for you Mr Trotter ?'

One day I replied, ' A blow job wouldn't go amiss.'

Since then she has let me go about my business without hindrance.

That is how it should be in my opinion.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

yesbutno wrote:
Well I dont know about all the rules and things but I really dont understand this 'we signed away our sovereignty'. What is our sovereignty and how did we sign it away?

The vast majority of British law has been enshrined in statute over hundreds of years by the British people. Many of our laws have been adopted by other countries because they are based on common sense and a sense of fair play.

In the UK , if you have been charged with a criminal offence you have the right to elect to be tried before a judge and jury rather than a magistrates bench. The EU lawlords wish to remove this entitlement for minor offences to free up valuable court time. They are more interested in making sure that any bananas we export conform to a rigid standard of curvature.

Anyone living in the UK who believes that the EU is there to look after the interests of the British people must have rocks in their heads.

Not accurate at all and even some "leading" papers have had to apologise for misleading the people on this issue.



Basically under Tony Blair's government they were looking at ways at cutting costs and freeing up more court time for the increasing numbers of trials. What they were wanting to do for the lesser crimes be very much like Magistrates court were a set rules applied and the judge and a couple of lower-judges would then say whether guilty or not and set the appropriate penalty - as I say very much akin to how Magistrates work. Blair also stated that if it was successful then would take the idea to Brussells, just as long as the European Court of Human Rights agreed



This was wholly rejected by the Commons, never mind by the Lords. Even the ECHR completely rejected the proposal!

Sluffy wrote:I think it is about who has the final say.

We make our own laws, that is true BUT they are subservient (come second) to European law.

Ultimately The European Court in The Hague will rule on appeals against British law - take for example trying to extradite that Islamic cleric who is judge to be a danger to this country.

Never used to be that way pre joining Europe.

It was actually the European Court of Human Right and that pre-dates the EU by almost 40 years and it was Winston Churchill who set it up after World War II and they have, basically, the final say and matters like the Islamic Extremist (if they ever get that far normally) and we have fallen under the jurisdiction since its inception - along with countries outside the EU.





But it is right to say that Brussels/Strasbourg now have a bigger say in our laws, although we can amend to suit our culture. But from my point of view, isn't better that all countries have the same set of primary laws then we know where we stand when travelling and not falling foul of the laws. And does it really matter where these primary laws are set up - if they were coming from Westminster would we be complaining?