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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » Was either penalty a penalty?

Was either penalty a penalty?

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Which do you agree with most?

26% 26% [ 5 ]
32% 32% [ 6 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
16% 16% [ 3 ]
26% 26% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 19

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1 Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 10:34

Biggie

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Admin
Simple really, vote for your choice and comment below.

We have had our fair share of bad luck in penalties not given or given against us harshly over the last few months - I don't know - you wait all season for a soft penalty and then two come along at once.

Would you have given them Would you have been disappointed if they had been given against us?

I honestly thought the ref was running over to book Clough for the first one!

So, make your choice...

http://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

2 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 10:35

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
I would have been furious had the first one been awarded against us, at the time would have been furious with second too but with hindsight would have accepted that one.

3 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:02

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
They were both dives, if the ref had given them to Bury there would have been a riot.

4 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The first was a clear dive as Clough hurled himself down at the slightest touch but the ref was behind Maher so couldn't see the side view which exonerated Maher. Understandable why it was given but I'd have expected the linesman to see it and intervene.
The second was simply Clough getting outmuscled in a fifty-fifty but he flew through the air and made it look far more dramatic than it actually was.
Neither pen was a clear cut foul in the box and I wouldn't have awarded either. That said, we deserved to win the game on the balance of play - it's just unfortunate that we don't have the firepower to have taken other chances so that we are seen to have won fair and square.

5 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:32

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Clough should be fined and banned but the "laws" don't allow that.

6 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:33

Guest


Guest
Both stone wall penalties.  We are lucky Clough can still walk after both of them.  Big bad nasty Bury.

7 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:36

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:Clough should be fined and banned but the "laws" don't allow that.
Welcome to modern football, a manager will congratulate him on that and it wouldn't surprise me if work is done on it in training.
Footballers spend 90 minutes trying to con officials into making wrong decisions then bleat like babies when they do and it goes against them.
I think the second one was a penalty (albeit a soft one) but the first was a shocker, but that said we've had plenty where we should have had one and didn't get it.
He might be a diver but he's our diver  Very Happy

8 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:44

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
whatsgoingon wrote:
He might be a diver but he's our diver  Very Happy

Smile Remember Diouf?

9 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:45

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
xmiles wrote:
whatsgoingon wrote:
He might be a diver but he's our diver  Very Happy

Smile  Remember Diouf?
Yes he might have been a diving spitting wife beating drunk driver, but he was our diving spitting wife beating drunk driver  Very Happy

10 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:54

bryan458

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
y2j 3.0 wrote:Both stone wall penalties.  We are lucky Clough can still walk after both of them.  Big bad nasty Bury.
:agree: bang on !!!!

11 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 11:57

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
bryan458 wrote:
y2j 3.0 wrote:Both stone wall penalties.  We are lucky Clough can still walk after both of them.  Big bad nasty Bury.
:agree: bang on !!!!
Ok I'll play too, they were lucky to finish with eleven men on the pitch, both surefire reds

12 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 12:05

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I don't get this term "soft" penalty. If the attacker is held, barged, impeded or tripped, it's a penalty, simple as that. If he'd been outside the box, free kicks would definitely have been given, so the same applies inside the box.

 The Sky replays show clearly that Clough was tripped and manhandled, so both were correct decisions. They also show that he did not make a meal of the fouls, falling --understandably given his speed and light weight-- without histrionics at the obvious contact.

What about holding and shoving in the box from corners? Are we going to start calling these "soft" penalties when correctly awarded? Refs began the season by implementing the crackdown on defenders pulling or impeding attackers, but it is they, the refs, who seem to have now gone "soft" again. Uphold the laws until players get the message that annoying foul play will not go unpunished

13 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 12:21

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:

 The Sky replays show clearly that Clough was tripped and manhandled, so both were correct decisions. They also show that he did not make a meal of the fouls, falling --understandably given his speed and light weight-- without histrionics at the obvious contact.


Understand what you are saying but the SKY replay which I watched several times showed that there was no initial contact with Clough at foot level i.e. he wasn't tripped but rather thrust his feet backward as he dived to try to make contact with Maher. Shpuld have been booked IMO.

As regards "manhandling" the difference for me is that whilst contact is permissible, it is cheating when a player throws himself down to pretend he has been pushed i.e. the reaction should be proportionate to the weight of the contact - which clearly wasn't the case last night. The second penalty looked like a fair challenge to me i.e. Clough showed too much of the ball and had basically lost possession when he fell over after coming into contact with the defender's shoulder.

14 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 12:22

Norpig

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
i don't care, they were awarded and we scored, end of.

15 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 12:27

whatsgoingon

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Norpig wrote:i don't care, they were awarded and we scored, end of.
and we've had enough stonewallers this season not given to feel guilty

16 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 12:30

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Norpig wrote:i don't care, they were awarded and we scored, end of.

Fair enough. That's all that will be remembered even though the pens were controversial.
Although to me it raised the issue that in both cases, if Clough had been just that bit quicker he'd have got the shots off before the defenders arrived and we wouldn't even be discussing it.

17 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 13:51

Guest


Guest
Sky edited the footage cos they fucking hate us cos they aint us

18 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Tue Oct 25 2016, 14:43

Bwfc1958

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Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
They were never penalties. I would have been pissed off if they'd been given against us. 

Do I care? 

Do I fuck as like. We're due the luck and I'm happy to take it.

19 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 10:00

King Bill

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David Lee
David Lee
First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

20 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 10:56

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
King Bill wrote:First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

Who moaned that we got a penalty?

The first one was never a penalty, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that.

21 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 11:00

Norpig

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
it was a penalty, the ref gave it, that's all that matters

22 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 11:04

Boggersbelief

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:
King Bill wrote:First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

Who moaned that we got a penalty?

The first one was never a penalty, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that.

I'll think you'll find it was a penalty. If an attacker feels any contact inside the box then he can choose to go down. If it wasn't a penalty he'd have been booked for diving

23 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 12:16

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:They were both dives, if the ref had given them to Bury there would have been a riot.
There has been a riot amongst Bury fans. All three have been on twitter bleating!

24 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 13:26

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Boggersbelief wrote:
Natasha Whittam wrote:
King Bill wrote:First. Pen. Clough was going nowhere, Maher didn't back off, made contact and paid the price. 

Second. Pen. Clough was in front of the defender when he deliberately pushed him off the ball.

Some 'fans' moan when we don't score and moan when we do.

Who moaned that we got a penalty?

The first one was never a penalty, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think that.

I'll think you'll find it was a penalty. If an attacker feels any contact inside the box then he can choose to go down. If it wasn't a penalty he'd have been booked for diving
It was a penalty because the ref gave it. If the ref had seen the dive he would have booked Clough but he didn't see it. So it was a penalty but it was a poor decision to award it.

25 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 14:25

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I can't understand what pleasure some people derive from focusing on the negative, either about BW or Brexit or the economy or any number of other issues. Not exactly schadenfreude but something similarly twisted, led by Mr. and Mrs. Bleeding Happy, seems to give personal satisfaction to those whose purpose is presumably to prove that they are right and everyone else wrong, especially about other people's private thoughts and actions which no one can genuinely read accurately. 

We should be celebrating another win, a solid performance and a clean sheet, but we are lost in damning our own players with ludicrous accusations of "throwing" themselves down for which there is absolutely no evidence at all. Clough "fell" down after clear contact in both cases.

26 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 15:10

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
okocha wrote:I can't understand what pleasure some people derive from focusing on the negative, either about BW or Brexit or the economy or any number of other issues. Not exactly schadenfreude but something similarly twisted, led by Mr. and Mrs. Bleeding Happy, seems to give personal satisfaction to those whose purpose is presumably to prove that they are right and everyone else wrong, especially about other people's private thoughts and actions which no one can genuinely read accurately. 

We should be celebrating another win, a solid performance and a clean sheet, but we are lost in damning our own players with ludicrous accusations of "throwing" themselves down for which there is absolutely no evidence at all. Clough "fell" down after clear contact in both cases.
Would "some people" be me by any chance? If so, I feel comfortable in expressing my opinion on these matters and it just so happens that I have reservations about the team, Brexit and the direction of travel in the economy. 
As an advocate of freedom of speech I think it's important to have more than one side to a discussion otherwise the dialogue becomes meaningless. It is equally important to reject rampant jingoism of the type that emerges whenever we get a glimmer of hope. I'll have to agree to disagree over the interpretation of the penalty incidents although it should be noted that the vast majority of voters on this thread either felt Clough dived or that they would be gutted had they been awarded against us indicating that both pens were generous at best.
I am indeed celebrating the win but beating Bury won't change my opinion of where and how the team needs to be strengthened. As for Brexit, we're stuck with it now so I'm just hopeful that things work out - again, I'm not confident that we won't be worse off but we'll just have to wait and see. Either way, this is a discussion forum and I'll express the opinions I have and respect those that disagree with me.

27 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 17:09

okocha

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I think you'll find that 12 people thought that at least one of the pens was fair.
5 thought not. 

In the end, it is the referee and his assistants who matter most. They were brave enough to ignore the heated atmosphere of a derby and award the correct decisions to the away side.

I just don't think we should be talking Zach down, implying that he is a cheat. That would be unfair and unhelpful to him and the team, and certainly wouldn't  pass the "genuine fan" test. He  didn't "throw himself to the ground" , nor appeal dramatically to the ref.

28 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 17:21

boltonbonce

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The first one was soft,the second was,in my opinion,a clear penalty.
Sadly,players are now coached on going down in the box after 'contact', however minimal.
This is the modern game,like it or not,and I certainly don't believe the lad cheated.
How odd that,whilst waiting for a corner to come into the box,players from both sides are quite happy to commit GBH,with hardly any punishment at all.
I know they're trying to cut it out,but they need to try harder.

29 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 17:28

Soul Kitchen

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
After last seasons debacle I don't give a flying how we win, be it og, pens, shit entertainment or good play.
I'll take 25 more 1 nils now if it gets us out of this league!
Onwards and upwards!!

30 Re: Was either penalty a penalty? on Wed Oct 26 2016, 17:45

Reebok Trotter

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Soul Kitchen wrote:After last seasons debacle I don't give a flying how we win, be it og, pens, shit entertainment or good play.
I'll take 25 more 1 nils now if it gets us out of this league!
Onwards and upwards!!

:clap:

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