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Karl Henry wants paying

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1 Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 11:23

BoltonTillIDie

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Karl Henry has replied to one of the official BWFC tweets with this today

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It’s still the 6th!

2 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 11:25

BoltonTillIDie

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
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3 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 12:05

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Karl Henry has replied to one of the official BWFC tweets with this today

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It’s still the 6th!

I was just thinking the same the whinging knob.

4 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 12:32

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
He clearly states this is not the first date he has been given.

I had little sympathy for Amos, but Henry was a major reason for us staying up last season - and I bet he was on a fraction of what Amos was taking home.

I hope Ken sorts this today.

5 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 13:23

Norpig

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Again shows a lack of class from the Andersons, just pay them what they are owed!

6 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 15:03

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Everyone wants paying. If suppliers and players aren't aware of Andersons policy on paying debts they surely will be before long and that could be detrimental to the club.

7 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 17:47

Leeds_Trotter

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Andy Walker
Andy Walker
A little more professionalism would've been nice.

8 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Thu Sep 06 2018, 18:00

Sluffy

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Admin
Not saying this is relevant but it might give one or two a something to ponder on perhaps.

Players wages of around £600k were due at the end of last week - paid (otherwise we would have heard about it by now.
Transfer window closed last week and we clearly made some sort of a 'loan' payment to FGR in advance of the January purchase of Doidge.
The BluMarble repayment date fell due last week (31st August), the settlement total was £4.3 million.
Millionaire Karl Henry was awaiting his player bonus.

There would have been other outgoings too, not least provision for the next HMRC demand, so if YOU had to manage the clubs cash flow which in the order of priorities would you pay Mr Henry?

Not the players - and risk a strike and possible sanctions/embargo?
Not FGR - and have no new striker and rely on Connor Hall instead (now at Accrington) until the January window?
Not BluMarble - and incur financial penalties?
Not millionaire Mr Henry - and risk a tweet and the stirred up wrath of the anti-Anderson brigade?

I know in the scheme of things how highly I would prioritise Mr Henry's outstanding bonus.

Yes Henry should have been paid on time but in the real world everything doesn't always go as clockwork.

I've no doubt that Henry will receive his bonus in full in due course.

9 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 00:33

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The key point here is that "millionaire Mr Henry" wouldn't have played that key role in securing our Championship status - the greatest income generator - had he not been promised this money. Nor would the players who went on strike.
Are the "millionaire Andersons" playing loose and fast with the club's reputation by making promises that they are not honouring? It certainly seems to be a recurring theme and if that is the case, sooner or later nobody will want to deal with the club and that includes potential signings and investors as well as suppliers and other creditors.
On the one hand the Andersons are praised for their austerity and living within the clubs' means, but then they're obviously spending more than the club has otherwise they'd honour their debts - but then get praised for cashflow management so it seems that in some people's eyes at least, the Andersons can't do any wrong. Misguided IMO.

10 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 06:20

Dunkels King

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Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The key point here is that "millionaire Mr Henry" wouldn't have played that key role in securing our Championship status - the greatest income generator - had he not been promised this money. Nor would the players who went on strike.
Are the "millionaire Andersons" playing loose and fast with the club's reputation by making promises that they are not honouring? It certainly seems to be a recurring theme and if that is the case, sooner or later nobody will want to deal with the club and that includes potential signings and investors as well as suppliers and other creditors.
On the one hand the Andersons are praised for their austerity and living within the clubs' means, but then they're obviously spending more than the club has otherwise they'd honour their debts - but then get praised for cashflow management so it seems that in some people's eyes at least, the Andersons can't do any wrong. Misguided IMO.
Probably is misguided, but living within the clubs means doesn’t necessarily mean being able to pay all your outstanding debts in one go, and in that instance you have to pay the ones that have an immediate effect on your ongoing operation, like players, staff and current suppliers of services.

11 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 07:50

T.R.O.Y


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
It’s not complicated this, if you don’t have the cashflow don’t promise what you can’t deliver. Eventually suppliers will stop doing business with you - same as any business.

12 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 10:58

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The key point here is that "millionaire Mr Henry" wouldn't have played that key role in securing our Championship status - the greatest income generator - had he not been promised this money. Nor would the players who went on strike.
Are the "millionaire Andersons" playing loose and fast with the club's reputation by making promises that they are not honouring? It certainly seems to be a recurring theme and if that is the case, sooner or later nobody will want to deal with the club and that includes potential signings and investors as well as suppliers and other creditors.
On the one hand the Andersons are praised for their austerity and living within the clubs' means, but then they're obviously spending more than the club has otherwise they'd honour their debts - but then get praised for cashflow management so it seems that in some people's eyes at least, the Andersons can't do any wrong. Misguided IMO.
Probably is misguided, but living within the clubs means doesn’t necessarily mean being able to pay all your outstanding debts in one go, and in that instance you have to pay the ones that have an immediate effect on your ongoing operation, like players, staff and current suppliers of services.
Equally if you want to live within your means you don't spend money you haven't got or make financial promises you can't keep. I'm sure the Andersons will cough up sooner or later but in the interim, the club's reputation is being dragged through the mud.

13 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 11:17

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's embarrassing that people all over the Bolton forums are suggesting Henry is in the wrong for wanting his money.

If you were let go from your job, and 2 months later you still hadn't been paid the money you were owed, and your ex-employer was spending thousands on new cars for current employees, would you just sit back and say nothing?

WOULD YOU FUCK.

14 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 12:35

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Surprised KA has not responded.

15 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 12:57

BoltonTillIDie

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I did tweet Karl Henry saying the following:

"Payments can still be made at 11:59 so no agreement for the new deadline has been broken...yet."

He responded a couple of hours ago saying

"They have now!"

Then he's tweeted the following too:

This regularly happened to others during my time at Bolton. We (the players) put pressure on the chairman internally and made him pay them. All kept in-house. Now we’re not there, he predictably does the same to us. #NoIntegrity #NoPrinciples #StillNoPayment #InNoRushHeSays

Guess Ken is in no rush to pay

16 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 13:28

observer


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
This is the Donald Trump school of business.

17 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 13:39

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I did tweet Karl Henry saying the following:

"Payments can still be made at 11:59 so no agreement for the new deadline has been broken...yet."

He responded a couple of hours ago saying

"They have now!"

Then he's tweeted the following too:

This regularly happened to others during my time at Bolton. We (the players) put pressure on the chairman internally and made him pay them. All kept in-house. Now we’re not there, he predictably does the same to us. #NoIntegrity #NoPrinciples #StillNoPayment #InNoRushHeSays

Guess Ken is in no rush to pay

Well when Henry buys his own club then he can run it as perfectly as he likes but until then he should go through the correct channels of the clubs grievance procedures, his union the PFA and ultimately the sports governing body the EFL and not be  airing his dirty laundry in public.

At the end of the day Henry is in the fortunate position of being a millionaire and has the certain knowledge he will be paid fully as a footballing creditor of the club even if we went into Administration.

It hardly been a secret that the club as had to survive hand to mouth and is it really that bad of Anderson to put the clubs survival and future as the priority rather than pay a number of millionaires a further few ten's of thousands of pounds on the dot?

I'm sure those who are so self-righteous about Anderson, would much rather we hadn't committed to buying Magennis and Doidge and gone into the season with no hope of staying up (and losing the £6 million benefit of being in the Championship) and settled up instead with the couple or so of millionaire players who don't even play for us anymore such as Amos and Henry?

They'll get their money eventually (we all know that) and we will stop up, or would you have preferred they got their money when it was due and we went through the season with just 34 year old Clayton Donaldson up front?

It might not be the right and proper way to run the club but sometimes you have to do what's right for the business long term even if it means pissing a few off now.

18 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:00

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Ignoring the fact you have NO IDEA whether he's already tried the appropriate channels, just because he'll get his money "eventually" doesn't mean he shouldn't call the club out in public.

If someone let you go, and still owed you money, would you just wait for "eventually". Would you fuck.



19 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:21

DEANO82

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Out of interest how do you know Henry and Amos are millionaires?

20 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:21

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Ignoring the fact you have NO IDEA whether he's already tried the appropriate channels, just because he'll get his money "eventually" doesn't mean he shouldn't call the club out in public.

If someone let you go, and still owed you money, would you just wait for "eventually". Would you fuck.

Actually I have - a number of times in fact.

I've done work for a business going through a hard time and waived my fees until a time they got back on their feet again (a bit like BWFC I guess). The business did, paid me up and I've done numerous work for them in the years since.

I'm fortunate that I'm in a financial position to do this and never thought once about calling them out in public, as seems to be what people seem to do all the time, even over the least little thing.

And clearly Henry hasn't followed all the formal options open to him because the EFL has the power to sanction clubs for non payment of monies to players and clearly that hasn't happened so far.

If he's so pissed off with Anderson then maybe he should take the club to court like Heathcote's did rather than tweet on Twitter?




21 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:24

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm sure those who are so self-righteous about Anderson, would much rather we hadn't committed to buying Magennis and Doidge and gone into the season with no hope of staying up (and losing the £6 million benefit of being in the Championship) and settled up instead with the couple or so of millionaire players who don't even play for us anymore such as Amos and Henry?

They'll get their money eventually (we all know that) and we will stop up, or would you have preferred they got their money when it was due and we went through the season with just 34 year old Clayton Donaldson up front?
Totally irrelevant. We wouldn't even be in this division and enjoying the benefits you mention if it wasn't for the players. Ironically, Henry earned the money that is being diverted elsewhere.
And you haven't addressed the concern that the Andersons are jeopardising our future prospects of recruitment and investment by acting  like cowboys.

That said, I reckon Toadface would rather have his little fiefdom to himself than bring in wealthy investors to grow the club so it's probably not an issue for him.

22 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:32

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Out of interest how do you know Henry and Amos are millionaires?

Amos has been on a four year contract of £16,000 per week with us, which will total £3.3 million. Henry has been a professional footballer who has made over 500 appearance over a 16 year career including four seasons in the Premier League.

If either of them have not managed to have assets of a million or more by now then they've certainly pissed an awful lot of money up the wall!





23 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 14:50

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm sure those who are so self-righteous about Anderson, would much rather we hadn't committed to buying Magennis and Doidge and gone into the season with no hope of staying up (and losing the £6 million benefit of being in the Championship) and settled up instead with the couple or so of millionaire players who don't even play for us anymore such as Amos and Henry?

They'll get their money eventually (we all know that) and we will stop up, or would you have preferred they got their money when it was due and we went through the season with just 34 year old Clayton Donaldson up front?
Totally irrelevant. We wouldn't even be in this division and enjoying the benefits you mention if it wasn't for the players. Ironically, Henry earned the money that is being diverted elsewhere.
And you haven't addressed the concern that the Andersons are jeopardising our future prospects of recruitment and investment by acting  like cowboys.

That said, I reckon Toadface would rather have his little fiefdom to himself than bring in wealthy investors to grow the club so it's probably not an issue for him.

I see you're back to being abusive to Anderson yet again.

The fact that we've brought in some 17 or so players into the club over the summer (several even after the strike) and we've taken on a number of loans from other clubs, shows that recruitment is not an issue?

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Henry certainly was one of those players that kept us up last season - but he's no longer with us and we need the likes of Magennis and Doidge to keep us up this season, so is the money best spent on our past or on our future - knowing full well that Henry will be paid up in due course anyway?

If our future is to be in the Championship next season rather than have no strikers and be doomed to relegation for the whole of the season, then isn't that in itself maximising the chance of future investment, rather than your presumably preferred method of getting relegated once again and losing the £6 million for being in the Championship?

Is your agenda against Anderson such that you would rather see the club fail rather than him succeed?

24 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:02

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Actually I have - a number of times in fact.

I've done work for a business going through a hard time and waived my fees until a time they got back on their feet again (a bit like BWFC I guess).  The business did, paid me up and I've done numerous work for them in the years since.

I'm fortunate that I'm in a financial position to do this and never thought once about calling them out in public, as seems to be what people seem to do all the time, even over the least little thing.


I knew as soon as I clicked 'send' you'd come back with that reply. Silly me.

You seem to be falling into the same trap you accuse others of, you've decided to jump into the pro-Anderson camp so the guy walks on water.

I'm definitely pro-Anderson, he's been great (so far) for BWFC. That doesn't mean he's right on this one. If he hasn't paid Henry on time he is in the wrong.

25 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:13

luckyPeterpiper

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Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington
Look, I generally support KA and what he's doing but in this case I feel he's not helping himself or the club at all. Whether or not Karl Henry is a millionaire is irrelevant. He should be paid moneys owed on the date they're promised to him or at least be given an explanation and a new date if that turns out to be impossible. I know it's easy to say footballers are on huge money and so they can wait but that's unfair to them. I appreciate where sluffy's coming from about the priorities and I agree with him to a point but if Ken couldn't pay Karl Henry today then he should have told Karl that and reached agreement with him about when he would be paid. Karl doesn't strike me as an unreasonable person so I feel he probably would have been fine with it if Ken had called him and said something like "Look Karl, we can't get the money to you on the sixth because too much other money's going out this week and with the break we've no game and no money coming in so is it OK if we pay you on (eg) the 13th instead?"

I don't know if there's been any contact between KA and KH of course so I don't know what if anything has been said between the two men so I won't judge the situation based solely on tweets but it does seem fairly straightforward on the face of it. This is more or less a repeat of the Amos situation in that Ken's delayed payment to a player who's not here or not part of the long term plan in order to keep the ones who are here and our other creditors onside. I understand that from a business point of view but it's still not right. Karl did his job and kept his side of the bargain. Now it's time for Ken to keep his.

26 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:39

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Actually I have - a number of times in fact.

I've done work for a business going through a hard time and waived my fees until a time they got back on their feet again (a bit like BWFC I guess).  The business did, paid me up and I've done numerous work for them in the years since.

I'm fortunate that I'm in a financial position to do this and never thought once about calling them out in public, as seems to be what people seem to do all the time, even over the least little thing.


I knew as soon as I clicked 'send' you'd come back with that reply. Silly me.

You seem to be falling into the same trap you accuse others of, you've decided to jump into the pro-Anderson camp so the guy walks on water.

I'm definitely pro-Anderson, he's been great (so far) for BWFC. That doesn't mean he's right on this one. If he hasn't paid Henry on time he is in the wrong.

Believe what you want.

It's true about what I've said about myself and I don't believe Anderson can walk on water.

I've had the opportunity in my career to work at high levels in the public services and also to have run my own business, so I do have some experience in life to back up what I say, if anybody chooses to believe me.

At end of the day you don't really have much choice but to go for the survival of the business as your number one priority as you simply can't please everyone all of the time.

Council's such as Northamptonshire are required to make cuts to services that will effect people in need in the community - and other council's will soon be facing the similar dilemma, this isn't simply blanking a few millionaires for a couple months until you've got the odd several hundred thousands or so to settle up with them - these are people through no fault of their own will not be having their needs met as they have had up to now.

Anderson has simply used a common sense approach of keeping the wages (apart from Amos that one time) up to date since Holdsworth left, paid of all the creditors to date - including HMRC and Heathcote (even if he had to apply to the courts before his £2,500 or so iirc was eventually paid to him in settlement of the money he owed to the club), been dealing with the BluMarble loan that was due at the end of last month, brought in the players to keep us competitive in the Championship by spending at least £200k already, plus more for the loan players and Doidge, then looking at what he had left to settle up with Henry.

It's fine and dandy to say he should have sorted out Henry first but clearly he didn't have enough in the kitty at the end of last month/start of this, so what should he have not paid instead, the players (strike), BluMarble (foreclosure) , not bought Magennis and Doidge (relegation)?

He went instead to make a millionaire wait a while longer for his money and faced a twitter storm and the wrath of the anti-Anderson's instead.

Hardly a decision that you needed the brain of Einstein to have worked out what's best to do, is it?

Just because I support his common sense and pragmatism doesn't make me a worshiper at his feet or anything - he's doing what all of us would do if we found ourselves in that position, I know because I've been one of them that has made similar types of decisions in the past.


27 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:42

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I seem to recall that there was at least one of Parky's top targets that refused to come purely because of the perception of financial mismanagement. Sure we got a lot of players (some of whom are questionable) but perhaps we could have got better ones if Anderson played with a straight bat?
Then there's the investors Anderson made such a big deal about attracting. That went well didn't it?
I remain skeptical.

28 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:45

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Look, I generally support KA and what he's doing but in this case I feel he's not helping himself or the club at all. Whether or not Karl Henry is a millionaire is irrelevant. He should be paid moneys owed on the date they're promised to him or at least be given an explanation and a new date if that turns out to be impossible. I know it's easy to say footballers are on huge money and so they can wait but that's unfair to them. I appreciate where sluffy's coming from about the priorities and I agree with him to a point but if Ken couldn't pay Karl Henry today then he should have told Karl that and reached agreement with him about when he would be paid. Karl doesn't strike me as an unreasonable person so I feel he probably would have been fine with it if Ken had called him and said something like "Look Karl, we can't get the money to you on the sixth because too much other money's going out this week and with the break we've no game and no money coming in so is it OK if we pay you on (eg) the 13th instead?"

I don't know if there's been any contact between KA and KH of course so I don't know what if anything has been said between the two men so I won't judge the situation based solely on tweets but it does seem fairly straightforward on the face of it. This is more or less a repeat of the Amos situation in that Ken's delayed payment to a player who's not here or not part of the long term plan in order to keep the ones who are here and our other creditors onside. I understand that from a business point of view but it's still not right. Karl did his job and kept his side of the bargain. Now it's time for Ken to keep his.

So Peter, if paying Henry meant not having the money to buy Magennis and Doidge and meant playing Donaldson on his own for the rest of the season (and almost certain relegation) would you still pay him (being a millionaire and not needing to go to the food bank, etc).

I know what I would do!

29 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:47

Sluffy

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Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I seem to recall that there was at least one of Parky's top targets that refused to come purely because of the perception of financial mismanagement. Sure we got a lot of players (some of whom are questionable) but perhaps we could have got better ones if Anderson played with a straight bat?
Then there's the investors Anderson made such a big deal about attracting. That went well didn't it?
I remain skeptical.

Which one/s would that/they be and please provide the source/s.

Thank you.

30 Re: Karl Henry wants paying on Fri Sep 07 2018, 16:51

BoltonTillIDie

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
How much would we even owe Henry. Can't be that much in the grand scheme of things. A months wages for a player at the end of his career. £15-20K? Wouldn't have affected the transfers surely. That's only 10% of the Magennis fee.

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