Religion

is a wonderful thing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221

So it wasn't just the priests abusing people.

Gay marriage seems to be all the rage in the press at the moment. I am neither deeply religious nor deeply homophobic but I do feel a bit sorry for the ' God Botherers'

I see no reason why gays or lesbians can't have a civil partnership or get married in a registry office but I can see why many Christians take umbrage at the thought of allowing gay marriage to take place in a church. It goes against everything that is preached in the Bible and the Koran.

Surely religious people have rights as well ? Why should they be asked to alter their beliefs to appease a minority element?

It's a tough call because I can see both sides of the coin. Somehow, I can't see the Muslim Council spending much time on this debate.

Reebok Trotter wrote:Gay marriage seems to be all the rage in the press at the moment. I am neither deeply religious nor deeply homophobic but I do feel a bit sorry for the ' God Botherers'

I see no reason why gays or lesbians can't have a civil partnership or get married in a registry office but I can see why many Christians take umbrage at the thought of allowing gay marriage to take place in a church. It goes against everything that is preached in the Bible and the Koran.

Surely religious people have rights as well ? Why should they be asked to alter their beliefs to appease a minority element?

It's a tough call because I can see both sides of the coin. Somehow, I can't see the Muslim Council spending much time on this debate.

The law won't force the church to marry gay people. The Church still has the choice to say no. But churches who have no problem with it will be allowed to have gay marriages.

I can see why gay people would want to get married if they were deeply christian, its for the exact same reason straight people would want to marry in the eyes of god.

Its the right move imo, as long as the government isn't forcing the church to do anything. Really its actually just giving the church more choice.

Religion is always evolving and changing, just a shame it seems to progress about 50 year behind everyone else.



People just pick and choose what they want to do/believe from the bible depending on their own personal agendas, don't like gays? then god is the perfect excuse to dislike them... according to the bible your not mean't to work on Sunday, otherwise you should die.. hear hear

xmiles wrote:is a wonderful thing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221

So it wasn't just the priests abusing people.

xmiles you bellend, this has nothing to do with religion. People get abused in all walks of life, the case you refer to just happened to have a connection to the church.

Most church people are great people who would do anything for you. I demand a public apology.

Reebok Trotter wrote:Gay marriage seems to be all the rage in the press at the moment. I am neither deeply religious nor deeply homophobic but I do feel a bit sorry for the ' God Botherers'

I see no reason why gays or lesbians can't have a civil partnership or get married in a registry office but I can see why many Christians take umbrage at the thought of allowing gay marriage to take place in a church. It goes against everything that is preached in the Bible and the Koran.

Surely religious people have rights as well ? Why should they be asked to alter their beliefs to appease a minority element?

It's a tough call because I can see both sides of the coin. Somehow, I can't see the Muslim Council spending much time on this debate.

to be fair, the bible does not reference one iota anything against homosexual relationships. In fact, again to be fair, the Bible doesn't even refer to heterosexual relationships. All it states that people who ove one another - so as such it was probably the first equality book in the world - but over time people have read how they have wanted to read and preach it!!!

Depends what book you read - The Old Testament is full of all sorts of nasty business including sodomy, genocide and ethnic cleansing. The New Testament is obviously cleaned up for the more squeamish AD era.

NickFazer wrote:Depends what book you read - The Old Testament is full of all sorts of nasty business including sodomy, genocide and ethnic cleansing. The New Testament is obviously cleaned up for the more squeamish AD era.

This. What about Sodom and Gomorrah? Lot and his family didn't move to the village of Zoar because it had better schools.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:is a wonderful thing?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21326221

So it wasn't just the priests abusing people.

xmiles you bellend, this has nothing to do with religion. People get abused in all walks of life, the case you refer to just happened to have a connection to the church.

Most church people are great people who would do anything for you. I demand a public apology.

They were abused by nuns. Aren't nuns, like priests, supposed to help people not abuse them?

xmiles wrote:

They were abused by nuns. Aren't nuns, like priests, supposed to help people not abuse them?

People get abused by mods, police, doctors, plumbers and stewards every day - they're all supposed to help people.

But you chose to pick on the church. Shame on you.

bwfc71 wrote:to be fair, the bible does not reference one iota anything against homosexual relationships. In fact, again to be fair, the Bible doesn't even refer to heterosexual relationships. All it states that people who ove one another - so as such it was probably the first equality book in the world - but over time people have read how they have wanted to read and preach it!!!

Which Bible do you read? My Bible has very strong views regarding the act of man and man lying together being an abomination - somewhat stronger than merely a sin. Ironically, murder is not an abomination - but that is a different topic. Does your Bible have a rainbow on the cover, by any chance?

I could never believe in a god that thinks homosexuality is worse than murder. That's just plain stupid.

That's not necessarily the case, though - after all, murder is in the Commandments and homosexuality isn't.

Keegan wrote:

bwfc71 wrote:to be fair, the bible does not reference one iota anything against homosexual relationships. In fact, again to be fair, the Bible doesn't even refer to heterosexual relationships. All it states that people who ove one another - so as such it was probably the first equality book in the world - but over time people have read how they have wanted to read and preach it!!!

Which Bible do you read? My Bible has very strong views regarding the act of man and man lying together being an abomination - somewhat stronger than merely a sin. Ironically, murder is not an abomination - but that is a different topic. Does your Bible have a rainbow on the cover, by any chance?

Can you quote the passage?

Keegan wrote:That's not necessarily the case, though - after all, murder is in the Commandments and homosexuality isn't.

therefore it is neither good nor bad. And yes it did exist as the depicted in Greeks and Roman and successive empire historical drawings and quotations - and even back then no one batted an eyelid about it.

Why isn't orgies mentioned in the Commandments?

Reebok Trotter wrote:

NickFazer wrote:Depends what book you read - The Old Testament is full of all sorts of nasty business including sodomy, genocide and ethnic cleansing. The New Testament is obviously cleaned up for the more squeamish AD era.

This. What about Sodom and Gomorrah? Lot and his family didn't move to the village of Zoar because it had better schools.

Interestingly nowhere in the Bible is there any mention of homosexuality being the reason that Sodom was destroyed by God. Also people tend to ignore the bit where Lot offers his guests the chance to fuck his two virgin daughters.

The linking of Sodom with homosexuality is down to later Christian nut jobs (sorry saints) like Paul, Jerome (who thought that all sexual relations even in marriage were unclean) and Augustine. These assholes basically taught that all sex is sinful and introduced the concept of original sin.

Some of you must have read a different Bible. It is mentioned in Genesis.

First Abraham asked if the Lord would spare the cities if fifty righteous people lived there. The Lord said yes. Boldly, Abraham kept bargaining down, until God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if even ten righteous people lived there. Then the Lord departed.

When the two angels arrived at Sodom that evening, Abraham's nephew Lot met them at the city gate. Lot and his family lived in Sodom. He took the two men to his home and fed them.

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.

The angels struck the rioters blind! Leading Lot, his wife, and two daughters by the hand, the angels hurried them out of the city. The girls' fiancés would not listen and stayed behind.

Lot and his family fled to a tiny village called Zoar. The Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying the buildings, the people, and all the vegetation in the plain.

Lot's wife disobeyed the angels, looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt.

Hahaha I can't believe people can read shit like that and think it's true. Brilliant stuff

Reebok Trotter wrote:Some of you must have read a different Bible. It is mentioned in Genesis.

First Abraham asked if the Lord would spare the cities if fifty righteous people lived there. The Lord said yes. Boldly, Abraham kept bargaining down, until God agreed not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if even ten righteous people lived there. Then the Lord departed.

When the two angels arrived at Sodom that evening, Abraham's nephew Lot met them at the city gate. Lot and his family lived in Sodom. He took the two men to his home and fed them.

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV) By ancient custom, the visitors were under Lot's protection. Lot was so infected by the wickedness of Sodom that he offered the homosexuals his two virgin daughters instead. Furious, the mob rushed up to break down the door.

The angels struck the rioters blind! Leading Lot, his wife, and two daughters by the hand, the angels hurried them out of the city. The girls' fiancés would not listen and stayed behind.

Lot and his family fled to a tiny village called Zoar. The Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying the buildings, the people, and all the vegetation in the plain.

Lot's wife disobeyed the angels, looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt.

So where exactly in the Bible does it say that the residents of Sodom were homosexuals?

And Lot fucked his own daughters after they got him drunk.

xmiles wrote:

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV)

So where exactly in the Bible does it say that the residents of Sodom were homosexuals?

And Lot fucked his own daughters after they got him drunk. [/quote]

I think it's pretty self explanatory.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Then all the men of the city surrounded Lot's house and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." (Genesis 19:5, NIV)

So where exactly in the Bible does it say that the residents of Sodom were homosexuals?

And Lot fucked his own daughters after they got him drunk.

I think it's pretty self explanatory.[/quote]

It depends on which translation you use. Both the King James and the English Standard Version 2001 have it as "And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” This all hinges on the meaning of the word "know" (ve'nida'ah in the original Hebrew text). Many scholars argue that this means get acquainted with not have sex with. Bearing in mind that these guests of Lot are supposed to be angels it does seem reasonable that people would want to see them and not necessarily rape them.