Anybody remember this fella?

Yes it was good but it all fell apart when Holden got injured and Coyle had no fucking clue what to do.

When Holden scored the winner against Blackburn, with ten men .

Played fat Sams team off the park, great game.

Owen Coyles Super White Army.

The football under coyle was fucking awful.

people remember a few decent moves and then say "the football was good" It wasn't.

I remember a game against spurs at WHL under big sam where we passed them off the park, Nakata hit the bar, breathtaking stuff.

(lost though! haha)

Natasha Whittam wrote:Too much long ball shite under Allardyce.

Your responses on this thread really let you down, Natasha. It's a great article, reminding us of the best days as Trotters that we will ever have.....

okocha wrote:What a fabulous article! God, that's made me nostalgic and even emotional! 

The only word I disagree with in the whole article was the description of Bibi as "frenetic"; the rest is spot-on and beautifully written.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Too much long ball shite under Allardyce.

Yes long ball, but shite?
The baiting of a flat dick half wit!
Certainly the most enjoyable time of watching Wanderers under his tenure that I have experienced!
And pretty good watching him playing at Burnden when we were both lads.

bwfc1874 wrote:I love Allardyce, but he's talked himself out of the West Ham job and it will probably mean he'll never manage England. If he was as well liked as Hodgson he'd end up with a massive job because he's a far better coach in every way.

Fortunately he's got a bigger bank account than youw to give him comfort!

okocha wrote:
Your responses on this thread really let you down, Natasha. It's a great article, reminding us of the best days as Trotters that we will ever have.....

Great days in terms of results, not so much in quality of football.

But once again thanks for telling me how I should think.

Soul Kitchen wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:I love Allardyce, but he's talked himself out of the West Ham job and it will probably mean he'll never manage England. If he was as well liked as Hodgson he'd end up with a massive job because he's a far better coach in every way.

Fortunately he's got a bigger bank account than youw to give him comfort.

True but I think you're missing the point. 

He's a fantastic manager and his record should have given him a go a big job as it did for the likes of Mark Hughes or Redknapp for instance. But for one reason or another he's not liked by the press which is a joke IMO.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

okocha wrote:
Your responses on this thread really let you down, Natasha. It's a great article, reminding us of the best days as Trotters that we will ever have.....

Great days in terms of results, not so much in quality of football.

But once again thanks for telling me how I should think.

Yes, Natasha, those crude long-ball merchants Youri, Jay Jay, Hierro, Campo, Ricardo were, by common consent, so  ugly to watch!!!
 No, what was special about BSA was explained perfectly in the excellent article:  he could get the players to vary the tactics from the cultured approach of the above to the more direct path of long passes via SKD's hold up play and flick-ons. He added terrific work-rate and fast-raiding wingers and full-backs,  all set off by a brilliant keeper and solid, dependable defenders.
If all you can contribute is some churlish criticism which implies that there is only ONE way to play the game, then you miss the fact that success and entertainment lie in variety. Just ask Brucie, as I'm sure Bonce will be quick to testify!

okocha wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

okocha wrote:
Your responses on this thread really let you down, Natasha. It's a great article, reminding us of the best days as Trotters that we will ever have.....

Great days in terms of results, not so much in quality of football.

But once again thanks for telling me how I should think.

Yes, Natasha, those crude long-ball merchants Youri, Jay Jay, Hierro, Campo, Ricardo were, by common consent, so  ugly to watch!!!
 No, what was special about BSA was explained perfectly in the excellent article:  he could get the players to vary the tactics from the cultured approach of the above to the more direct path of long passes via SKD's hold up play and flick-ons. He added terrific work-rate and fast-raiding wingers and full-backs,  all set off by a brilliant keeper and solid, dependable defenders.
If all you can contribute is some churlish criticism which implies that there is only ONE way to play the game, then you miss the fact that success and entertainment lie in variety. Just ask Brucie, as I'm sure Bonce will be quick to testify!

Spot on. Nat has made herself look a right plonker.

I'll never criticize Big Sam because we had some great times and great players under his tenure. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

boltonbonce wrote:

okocha wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

okocha wrote:
Your responses on this thread really let you down, Natasha. It's a great article, reminding us of the best days as Trotters that we will ever have.....

Great days in terms of results, not so much in quality of football.

But once again thanks for telling me how I should think.

Yes, Natasha, those crude long-ball merchants Youri, Jay Jay, Hierro, Campo, Ricardo were, by common consent, so  ugly to watch!!!
 No, what was special about BSA was explained perfectly in the excellent article:  he could get the players to vary the tactics from the cultured approach of the above to the more direct path of long passes via SKD's hold up play and flick-ons. He added terrific work-rate and fast-raiding wingers and full-backs,  all set off by a brilliant keeper and solid, dependable defenders.
If all you can contribute is some churlish criticism which implies that there is only ONE way to play the game, then you miss the fact that success and entertainment lie in variety. Just ask Brucie, as I'm sure Bonce will be quick to testify!

Spot on. Nat has made herself look a right plonker.

Nothing new there then?

I think people are doing a disservice to the football under big sam. I thought we played some great stuff throughout his tenure. I wasn't all just long ball. That was just one side of our game at that time. We played a game at White hart lane and played them off the park. I think we only won 1-0 but jay jay hit the bar about 3 times in that game and Spurs were lucky to only lose by one goal. 

There were many more games as well were we played some very good football which was often overlooked because of our reputation.

The football under Allardyce was good for the most part although the issue was confused by having entertainers like Okocha in the team. The success we enjoyed was bolstered by the negativity in the media and it felt good to believe we were the underdogs putting one over on the big boys. The media's failure to acknowledge the quality of the football we sometimes played was a constant annoyance and to this day I take media analysis of football with a pinch of salt as they understand cliches better than the game itself.

Good times, reasonable success (relatively)and European football - Allardyce did well.

I occasionally do criticise Fat Sam though and with good reason.
He's a self-publicist and sometimes I thought his personal ambition exceeded his loyalty to the club.
He didn't spend much on transfer fees but he did instigate the culture of BWFC paying massive wages which we are still paying for today 8 years after he left.
And he left over money when he was told his wages policy wasn't sustainable and he'd have to cut back.
Some fans call that "not backing Sam". I call it sensible financial management that he should be professional enough to accept and work with if he genuinely cared for the future of BWFC. But he had his career to consider so he ran off to work for Mr Mike Ashley. And then nicked Faye from us (wasn't too bothered about Nobby following him as he'd had a couple of poor seasons at that stage)

I've met him and he's a bit of a dodgy slimeball IMO so perhaps my personal opinion could be perceived as colouring my attitude towards the man. But for me my perception of him merely explained why he behaved as he did in both his transfer dealings and in slagging off BWFC when the money ran out.
That said, my lack of respect for him as a person doesn't detract from his achievements and the good times we had despite the hidden cost.

Only reasonable success? I'm struggling to think of any team of our size in the past 20 years who had such a successful rise, Swansea is probably the other one but they haven't managed to qualify for Europe through their league position yet. His success was huge relative to other clubs our size.

Agree with all your other points though.

wanderlust wrote:The football under Allardyce was good for the most part although the issue was confused by having entertainers like Okocha in the team. The success we enjoyed was bolstered by the negativity in the media and it felt good to believe we were the underdogs putting one over on the big boys. The media's failure to acknowledge the quality of the football we sometimes played was a constant annoyance and to this day I take media analysis of football with a pinch of salt as they understand cliches better than the game itself.

Good times, reasonable success (relatively)and European football - Allardyce did well.

I occasionally do criticise Fat Sam though and with good reason.
He's a self-publicist and sometimes I thought his personal ambition exceeded his loyalty to the club.
He didn't spend much on transfer fees but he did instigate the culture of BWFC paying massive wages which we are still paying for today 8 years after he left.
And he left over money when he was told his wages policy wasn't sustainable and he'd have to cut back.
Some fans call that "not backing Sam". I call it sensible financial management that he should be professional enough to accept and work with if he genuinely cared for the future of BWFC. But he had his career to consider so he ran off to work for Mr Mike Ashley. And then nicked Faye from us (wasn't too bothered about Nobby following him as he'd had a couple of poor seasons at that stage)

I've met him and he's a bit of a dodgy slimeball IMO so perhaps my personal opinion could be perceived as colouring my attitude towards the man. But for me my perception of him merely explained why he behaved as he did in both his transfer dealings and in slagging off BWFC when the money ran out.
That said, my lack of respect for him as a person doesn't detract from his achievements and the good times we had despite the hidden cost.

For all the negatives written on the Bolton forums, that era (in my opinion) was the best in modern times and if not for a falling out over ethical behaviour with agents and money to be spent to remain in the top six, BSA probably would have stayed the course.  Today we just try and get back to the EPL, never mind Europe.  BSA took us to a place that could not have been realized by a small team without substantial financial backing.  Yes, he had dreams of coaching England.  Yes, he wanted to stay top six.  Yes, he found a way for a small club to play with the big boys.  I wish we had those problems today.  Instead we worry about being only 10 points above relegation in the Championship League.  Instead we worry about fielding a healthy eleven on the pitch.  Instead we worry about leaking goals at the death.  Instead we worry about a new manager with lofty ideals like BSA, leaving us for a bigger club.  Instead we worry about where we can find new money to entice players to come and play for us while we still have to meet financial fair play rules.  Times have changed but BSA brought us to a new level and one that should not be denigrated in hindsight. My fervent wish is that Lennon becomes the next BSA... finding new talent while encouraging academy talent and enticing them to play or stay with us for the next few years.

Sam Allardyce has always been perceived as a 'long ball' and 'physical' manager by the mainstream media and uninformed armchair fans for one simple reason. 

They only paid attention to a BWFC match if we were playing one of the "Big Four" clubs. Against Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool we did play a direct in your face sort of game because if we'd tried to play pass and move against them they'd have creamed us. Their weakness, especially Arsenal's was that they didn't know how to handle teams that wouldn't give them space or time on the ball. So when we were up against that sort of team we harried, hassled and occasionally muscled them off the ball. It may have lacked finesse at times but we still had some of that on the park anyway because the likes of Hierro, Campo, Okocha et al didn't do kick and rush football. 

I still remember with great fondness watching Arsene Wenger throw his tie onto the Reebok turf in frustration when we held them to a 2-2 draw and ruined his title dreams to boot. In his post match interview he said:

"Bolton did not play the right way. They were tackling my players all over the pitch and refused to allow us space to settle on the ball and play our game." He didn't call us dirty, he never said we fouled them out of the match, he was just furious and felt it was unfair of us to tackle his players and not stand back to let them dictate the pace and style of the match. In Wenger World we were supposed to bow low and gaze admiringly at Arsenal's silky skills and allow them to win the match with a minimum of interference from our unsophisticated Northern yobbo team.

The truth is that Sam adapted his game plan to the opposition, using pass and move whenever we could and employing a tight marking space denying approach against teams who would kill us if we gave them room. Towards the end of his time the football did get a bit dour but remember most of our players were past thirty, there wasn't a ready pool of replacement talent that would come to us because the MLS was paying mega bucks for fading stars and as a result to stay in the top half of the prem we had to play a more disciplined and less exciting type of football. I still think that fact coupled with the knowledge he would never get the money to buy players needed for a push at the top four has a lot to do with why Sam left. He took Bolton to heights we'd never dreamed of even in the White Hot years but by 2007 it was clear that we couldn't get any higher and Sam still had ambitions to fulfill that he couldn't attain here. 

But the real reason why the media don't like Sam is simple. He refuses to bow to the established order and doesn't care what people think of him. He comes in, does his job for his club and gets results that upset the Blazer Brigade at the FA and the London based big club obsessed sports writers. For my money the fact that he's never been given and will never get the England job when drones like Hodgson are given extended contracts to fail is a disgrace.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Sam Allardyce has always been perceived as a 'long ball' and 'physical' manager by the mainstream media and uninformed armchair fans for one simple reason. 

They only paid attention to a BWFC match if we were playing one of the "Big Four" clubs. Against Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool we did play a direct in your face sort of game because if we'd tried to play pass and move against them they'd have creamed us. Their weakness, especially Arsenal's was that they didn't know how to handle teams that wouldn't give them space or time on the ball. So when we were up against that sort of team we harried, hassled and occasionally muscled them off the ball. It may have lacked finesse at times but we still had some of that on the park anyway because the likes of Hierro, Campo, Okocha et al didn't do kick and rush football. 

I still remember with great fondness watching Arsene Wenger throw his tie onto the Reebok turf in frustration when we held them to a 2-2 draw and ruined his title dreams to boot. In his post match interview he said:

"Bolton did not play the right way. They were tackling my players all over the pitch and refused to allow us space to settle on the ball and play our game." He didn't call us dirty, he never said we fouled them out of the match, he was just furious and felt it was unfair of us to tackle his players and not stand back to let them dictate the pace and style of the match. In Wenger World we were supposed to bow low and gaze admiringly at Arsenal's silky skills and allow them to win the match with a minimum of interference from our unsophisticated Northern yobbo team.

The truth is that Sam adapted his game plan to the opposition, using pass and move whenever we could and employing a tight marking space denying approach against teams who would kill us if we gave them room. Towards the end of his time the football did get a bit dour but remember most of our players were past thirty, there wasn't a ready pool of replacement talent that would come to us because the MLS was paying mega bucks for fading stars and as a result to stay in the top half of the prem we had to play a more disciplined and less exciting type of football. I still think that fact coupled with the knowledge he would never get the money to buy players needed for a push at the top four has a lot to do with why Sam left. He took Bolton to heights we'd never dreamed of even in the White Hot years but by 2007 it was clear that we couldn't get any higher and Sam still had ambitions to fulfill that he couldn't attain here. 

But the real reason why the media don't like Sam is simple. He refuses to bow to the established order and doesn't care what people think of him. He comes in, does his job for his club and gets results that upset the Blazer Brigade at the FA and the London based big club obsessed sports writers. For my money the fact that he's never been given and will never get the England job when drones like Hodgson are given extended contracts to fail is a disgrace.

I agree.

I also noticed how sometimes when we played these big clubs, but particularly Chelsea and ManU, they tended to get really physical and put in some horrific challenges which often went either unpunished or only yellow carded when a red card would have been more appropriate.