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Should we just open the door and let them all in?

+9
Boggersbelief
scottjames30
Natasha Whittam
Reebok Trotter
boltonbonce
Mr Magoo
karlypants
Chairmanda
Sluffy
13 posters

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Guest


Guest

Well played, Madam Chair - I salute you for retaining your composure and displaying grace under fire.

I'd be no good in that situation - It'd be all flustered mumbling, pauses, lots of "Er...." and you didn't start a single sentence with that horrible "Well, you know....." device, first adopted by Tony Blair and subsequently flogged to death by politicians of all hues.

No, I don't know.....that's why I asked you the question, idiot!

Anyroad, I digress......back on topic:

Yes, controls on immigration are obviously a good idea but the notion that the country is full and all these horrible foreigners are coming over here to either (A) take all our jobs or (B) claim millions in benefits whilst sitting on their arses watching Sky TV all day is simply nonsense.

It's a myth propagated by UKIP which taps into (perfectly natural) fears that the indigenous population (whatever that means) may have about people and things they know little about.

In very simple terms, if you don't understand something it's easy to fall into the trap of fearing it and automatically viewing it as a bad thing.

And that's what UKIP are exploiting.

But, as I've said before on here, whilst the Kippers are a joke and will never be a credible force in UK politics, some good has come out of their rise in popularity:

Prior to the last election anybody who raised the issue of controlling immigration was seen as a de facto racist but at least now, thanks to Nige and his ilk, we can now all at least discuss the subject in the mainstream, without fear of the debate being stifled to death from the off because it was taboo.

In terms of "foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs and driving wages down", doing what I do for a living, I have been in literally dozens of manufacturing plants over the last twenty years and yes, I have seen a rise in the numbers of foreign workers in them.

But when you start to ask why, it very quickly becomes apparent that the reason we have so many eastern Europeans working in our factories is quite simply because the going rate for the job has always been around minimum wage level and English people won't get off their arses at five AM and go to work for that amount because they can claim more in benefits.

And can you honestly blame them for that?

The Poles aren't driving wages down but they are prepared to work 40+ hours a week for £240 and, in my experience at least, that's something that English people, in increasingly large numbers, simply aren't prepared to do.

Does anybody think that if all the Eastern Europeans suddenly upped sticks and went home, UK employers would be forced to start paying £15 an hour to English people to fill unskilled jobs?

Nonsense - it doesn't work like that.

The current situation is a bit of a mess in my view because you can't blame the English for not wanting to work for less than they can claim and you can't blame the migrants for filling the labour gap.

If you want to blame someone, blame successive Tory governments (starting with Thatcher) for eroding the collective bargaining power of the British workforce by destroying the unions and raising taxes to the point where British industry stopped being competitive and which resulted in our manufacturing base crumbling to the point where we hardly manufacture anything in this country any more because cheap foreign imports are better value and it's too expensive to manufacture alternatives here at home.

And on top of this, our economy relies more on the financial services / banking sector far more nowadays than it ever did previously, so all our eggs are in that basket and profits made from that money stay in the hands of an elite few and don't filter down into the economy at large, hence why we're all feeling the pinch.

Rant over.

(I only started this comment to say well done to Manda and look what happened.......Off for a lie down now.)

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Check out the armchair fan, expert in Football and doesn't even go to games.

Expert on politics and doesn't even go out of his house Laughing

But you have to agree UKIP are growing for One reason.

Guest


Guest

scottjames30 wrote:Check out the armchair fan, expert in Football and doesn't even go to games.

Expert on politics and doesn't even go out of his house Laughing

But you have to agree UKIP are growing for One reason.

Yeah, they appeal to feckless idiots like you who are too thick to see the bigger picture.

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman wrote:Well played, Madam Chair - I salute you for retaining your composure and displaying grace under fire.

I'd be no good in that situation - It'd be all flustered mumbling, pauses, lots of "Er...." and you didn't start a single sentence with that horrible "Well, you know....." device, first adopted by Tony Blair and subsequently flogged to death by politicians of all hues.

No, I don't know.....that's why I asked you the question, idiot!

Anyroad, I digress......back on topic:

Yes, controls on immigration are obviously a good idea but the notion that the country is full and all these horrible foreigners are coming over here to either (A) take all our jobs or (B) claim millions in benefits whilst sitting on their arses watching Sky TV all day is simply nonsense.

It's a myth propagated by UKIP which taps into (perfectly natural) fears that the indigenous population (whatever that means) may have about people and things they know little about.

In very simple terms, if you don't understand something it's easy to fall into the trap of fearing it and automatically viewing it as a bad thing.

And that's what UKIP are exploiting.

But, as I've said before on here, whilst the Kippers are a joke and will never be a credible force in UK politics, some good has come out of their rise in popularity:

Prior to the last election anybody who raised the issue of controlling immigration was seen as a de facto racist but at least now, thanks to Nige and his ilk, we can now all at least discuss the subject in the mainstream, without fear of the debate being stifled to death from the off because it was taboo.

In terms of "foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs and driving wages down", doing what I do for a living, I have been in literally dozens of manufacturing plants over the last twenty years and yes, I have seen a rise in the numbers of foreign workers in them.

But when you start to ask why, it very quickly becomes apparent that the reason we have so many eastern Europeans working in our factories is quite simply because the going rate for the job has always been around minimum wage level and English people won't get off their arses at five AM and go to work for that amount because they can claim more in benefits.

And can you honestly blame them for that?

The Poles aren't driving wages down but they are prepared to work 40+ hours a week for £240 and, in my experience at least, that's something that English people, in increasingly large numbers, simply aren't prepared to do.

Does anybody think that if all the Eastern Europeans suddenly upped sticks and went home, UK employers would be forced to start paying £15 an hour to English people to fill unskilled jobs?

Nonsense - it doesn't work like that.

The current situation is a bit of a mess in my view because you can't blame the English for not wanting to work for less than they can claim and you can't blame the migrants for filling the labour gap.

If you want to blame someone, blame successive Tory governments (starting with Thatcher) for eroding the collective bargaining power of the British workforce by destroying the unions and raising taxes to the point where British industry stopped being competitive and which resulted in our manufacturing base crumbling to the point where we hardly manufacture anything in this country any more because cheap foreign imports are better value and it's too expensive to manufacture alternatives here at home.

And on top of this, our economy relies more on the financial services / banking sector far more nowadays than it ever did previously, so all our eggs are in that basket and profits made from that money stay in the hands of an elite few and don't filter down into the economy at large, hence why we're all feeling the pinch.

Rant over.

(I only started this comment to say well done to Manda and look what happened.......Off for a lie down now.)

:like:

Guest


Guest

Reebok Trotter wrote:
Breadman wrote:Well played, Madam Chair - I salute you for retaining your composure and displaying grace under fire.

I'd be no good in that situation - It'd be all flustered mumbling, pauses, lots of "Er...." and you didn't start a single sentence with that horrible "Well, you know....." device, first adopted by Tony Blair and subsequently flogged to death by politicians of all hues.

No, I don't know.....that's why I asked you the question, idiot!

Anyroad, I digress......back on topic:

Yes, controls on immigration are obviously a good idea but the notion that the country is full and all these horrible foreigners are coming over here to either (A) take all our jobs or (B) claim millions in benefits whilst sitting on their arses watching Sky TV all day is simply nonsense.

It's a myth propagated by UKIP which taps into (perfectly natural) fears that the indigenous population (whatever that means) may have about people and things they know little about.

In very simple terms, if you don't understand something it's easy to fall into the trap of fearing it and automatically viewing it as a bad thing.

And that's what UKIP are exploiting.

But, as I've said before on here, whilst the Kippers are a joke and will never be a credible force in UK politics, some good has come out of their rise in popularity:

Prior to the last election anybody who raised the issue of controlling immigration was seen as a de facto racist but at least now, thanks to Nige and his ilk, we can now all at least discuss the subject in the mainstream, without fear of the debate being stifled to death from the off because it was taboo.

In terms of "foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs and driving wages down", doing what I do for a living, I have been in literally dozens of manufacturing plants over the last twenty years and yes, I have seen a rise in the numbers of foreign workers in them.

But when you start to ask why, it very quickly becomes apparent that the reason we have so many eastern Europeans working in our factories is quite simply because the going rate for the job has always been around minimum wage level and English people won't get off their arses at five AM and go to work for that amount because they can claim more in benefits.

And can you honestly blame them for that?

The Poles aren't driving wages down but they are prepared to work 40+ hours a week for £240 and, in my experience at least, that's something that English people, in increasingly large numbers, simply aren't prepared to do.

Does anybody think that if all the Eastern Europeans suddenly upped sticks and went home, UK employers would be forced to start paying £15 an hour to English people to fill unskilled jobs?

Nonsense - it doesn't work like that.

The current situation is a bit of a mess in my view because you can't blame the English for not wanting to work for less than they can claim and you can't blame the migrants for filling the labour gap.

If you want to blame someone, blame successive Tory governments (starting with Thatcher) for eroding the collective bargaining power of the British workforce by destroying the unions and raising taxes to the point where British industry stopped being competitive and which resulted in our manufacturing base crumbling to the point where we hardly manufacture anything in this country any more because cheap foreign imports are better value and it's too expensive to manufacture alternatives here at home.

And on top of this, our economy relies more on the financial services / banking sector far more nowadays than it ever did previously, so all our eggs are in that basket and profits made from that money stay in the hands of an elite few and don't filter down into the economy at large, hence why we're all feeling the pinch.

Rant over.

(I only started this comment to say well done to Manda and look what happened.......Off for a lie down now.)

:clap:

:like:

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman wrote:

Yeah, they appeal to feckless idiots like you who are too thick to see the bigger picture.

You just toe the popular line every single time. I've eaten Haribo with more spine.

Guest


Guest

Scott, you've clearly taken what Farage has said and believed every word. But as we know, politicians lie and spin to fit their own agendas, Nigel's gone particularly far in exaggerating issues to play on existing (and genuine) concerns people have. But for a more accurate picture you should read independent sources.

Breadman's right that a serious debate needs to be had on immigration and how we move forward, but so long as Nige is about that's just going to be more and more difficult. Luckily most people have lost interest and we won't see much of him when he achieves nothing at this election and he resigns.



Last edited by bwfc1874 on Tue Apr 21 2015, 11:47; edited 1 time in total

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

scott wrote:Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Indeed. For such intelligent people Breadman and 74 don't half get annoyed when someone disagrees with them.. Exactly what a "thick" person would do.

Guest


Guest

Boggersbelief wrote:
scott wrote:Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Indeed. For such intelligent people Breadman and 74 don't half get annoyed when someone disagrees with them.. Exactly what a "thick" person would do.

Laughing

You just can't resist can you Boggers?

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I like to put people straight.

Guest


Guest

Haha you just love having a dig mate.

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

It's not a dig.. I like both of you most of the time.

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Boggersbelief wrote:
scott wrote:Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Indeed. For such intelligent people Breadman and 74 don't half get annoyed when someone disagrees with them.. Exactly what a "thick" person would do.

Breadman used to cry when i gave him abuse, but he doesn't half dish it out.

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I know, he called me a knob for no reason the other day.

Guest


Guest

scottjames30 wrote:
Boggersbelief wrote:
scott wrote:Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Indeed. For such intelligent people Breadman and 74 don't half get annoyed when someone disagrees with them.. Exactly what a "thick" person would do.

Breadman used to cry when i gave him abuse, but he doesn't half dish it out.

Scott knows better than to try and insult me.

I bury him every single time.

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

bwfc1874 wrote:
scottjames30 wrote:
Boggersbelief wrote:
scott wrote:Breadman , Just because people dont share your views, they're all thick are they?

Right, ok.

Indeed. For such intelligent people Breadman and 74 don't half get annoyed when someone disagrees with them.. Exactly what a "thick" person would do.

Breadman used to cry when i gave him abuse, but he doesn't half dish it out.

Scott knows better than to try and insult me.

I bury him every single time.

I've got bigger fish to fry, i only get involved with you if i've not eaten for a week #geek.

Guest


Guest

Boggersbelief wrote:I know, he called me a knob for no reason the other day.

Knob.

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Boggers, you didn't agree with him, i remember now.

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I wonder if sluffy or KP will have a word with Breadman like they did with Jake. 

Any chance?

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