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Jeremy Corbyn

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Natasha Whittam
Reebok Trotter
okocha
Soul Kitchen
Norpig
rammywhite
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1Jeremy Corbyn Empty Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 08:22

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

By Saturday this guy could be the official leader of the Opposition.
What do you make of him? Is he a potential prime minister or just a fruitcake spouting left wing rubbish.

2Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 08:28

Guest


Guest

Not sure he can be the next prime minister - purely because I keep being told by the media and older generations that he can't.

But I can't help but agree with his policies, his honesty and the (to me) sense he talks. I think regardless of his potential to be next prime minister he has taken the Labour Party back to the left where we can offer a real alternative to the Tories he's invigorated politics for people my age and all of the mainstream politicians could learn a lot from him in that regard.

3Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 08:40

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

For me the Labour party drifted far too close to the Torys since Blair took over. I'm sure middle England would recoil in horror at some of his policies but something in the Labour party needs to change, even if it only means they become a more credible opponent and not just Tory Lite as they have become.

4Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 09:19

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

A younger version of Michael Foot. He will get crucified by the media and the Tories will get another 5 years come 2020.
Some of his policies are good but ruins it with madcap stuff.

5Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 09:25

rammywhite

rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

I think the Tories will get another ten years out of this. It would take Labour a few years to dislodge him- and that will leave a sour taste with the electorate about competency, and guarantee Tory victory in 2020. And it will give them sufficient ammo to say that Labour every so often implode into stupidity (like Foot and Corbyn) to keep them out of power the next time round.
I think Labour is heading for suicide at the minute

6Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 09:35

Guest


Guest

Interesting article - particularly as it's come from the Telegraph - on 5 things to like about Corbyn -

1. Renationalisation
Some of the early privatisations did pretty well. Very few of the later ones did - and the worst of all were British Rail and the utilities.
With the railways privatisation has given us an expensive, overcrowded, inefficient system that acts as a drain on our entire economy – and adds to environmental pollution by pushing us into cars. Even the once great East Coast Mainline now looks old and decrepit; it reeks of underinvestment and profit extracted. Rather brilliantly, one effect of privatisation has been that many of Britain’s rail operators are actually owned by foreign state-owned companies meaning the profit from our fares pays for state-owned foreign public transport. Fantastic, huh? Yet, in London TfL and the Mayor (hate him, love his record on rail) have shown us just how good a modern state run service can be.
The same is true of power. The line we were spun at the time of privatisation was that UK power companies would be sold to small investors, these being the “hard-working families” of the financial world. And... a lot of our power generation is now courtesy of EDF, which is mostly owned by the French state. I know, you couldn’t make it up. And yet, in the face of all this evidence that privatisation is bad for natural monopolies, the conservative zeal for privatisation continues undiminished. So, yes, Jezza’s plans to renationalise rail and power look pretty sensible to me.

2. Tax avoidance
A lot of people have said that Corbyn’s figure of £120 billion in revenues from tackling tax avoidance is crazy. Well, maybe it is – but nobody knows because neither Labour nor the Tories have made any real effort to do more than tinker round the edges of taxation. To do so would upset their powerful donors and people like Murdoch. We continue to be a country that welcomes anyone who doesn’t want to pay their fair share – and have now got into the dreadful position of being reliant on those who are taking us for a ride. It can’t go on forever – and the public hate it. Corbyn might be able to make some real headway here - because unlike most mainstream politicians, his soul is not 51 per cent owned by an offshore entity headquartered in the Cayman Islands.

3. The military
Here, I’m certainly not 100-per-cent Team Jezza. But I do agree with two things. First, the Trident replacement costs more than we can afford – and it’s probably not independent anyway. I’m pretty sure the US doesn’t sell kit like this without a back door and a kill switch. Besides, it’s useless. Our nuclear deterrent doesn’t keep any sort of peace (Russia and the US do that) and I cannot think of a single conflict we’d ever use it in, except a global nuclear war, where it would be a bit like bringing a pack of sparklers to a fireworks display. As for the supposed clout it gives us... well, I’d rather have Germany’s economic clout.

Second, Corbyn doesn’t want us to get involved in any more foreign wars. This is hard to argue against. Not only are they ruinously expensive at the time (has a war ever come in under budget?) but they have even more ruinous long-term costs. You know, like the terrorist groups who are currently laying waste to much of the Middle East and driving refugees to Europe.

4. The environment
Do you remember Dave with his huskies, back in the halcyon days of the Greenest Government ever? Well, that was all all over before you could say “let’s cut renewable subsidies”. Meanwhile, the headlines are terrifying and getting worse. Last year the WWF said the the world had lost 50 per cent of its wildlife in the last 40 years. Recently, the FT reported that China will need $1.1 trillion to clean up its contaminated soil; it is literally becoming too polluted to feed itself. 2015 looks to be the hottest year on record. Again. We’ll have hurricanes in the Persian Gulf (at least they’ll hit Dubai). And so on. We need radical thinking here and mainstream politicians won’t do anything to upset the status quo. Corbyn doesn’t care about the status quo – and when it comes to the world we’re going to leave our children, that’s a very good thing because the status quo is terrifying.

5. The National Investment Bank
Did you ever wonder why the banks and the City (who caused the great recession) were also the largest beneficiaries of re-inflating the economy with quantitative easing? And did you not perhaps feel a little aggrieved that, once they’d got what they wanted, they carried on as if nothing had happened, displayed no gratitude whatsoever and changed their ways not a bit? Anyway, history has shown that there is alternative in the form of a massive public works programme. You know, like the New Deal. A response to an economic calamity that benefits everyone, not just the people who caused it. Imagine if, instead of a few new towers in the City we had new jobs, new ports, new roads and new railways. Imagine, if instead of austerity, we had government spending. You wouldn’t even need to print money to do it. Rather, governments could borrow it - and at the lowest rates for decades. The Economist recently described the failure of governments to borrow to build as a “missed opportunity”, while Standard & Poor’s reckons that, for every 1% of GDP spent on infrastructure the UK’s economy would grow by 2.5 per cent.

7Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 09:42

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Hard to tell. As with most things, there seems to be a mixture of good and bad. 

The general election was won because the alternative to the Tories was not different enough and came across as weak and short of clear, credible, affordable policies. Mind you, many of our perceptions were manufactured by the heavily biased Tory media who sought to discredit Milliband with personal attacks. 

Again in this campaign our opinions of Corbyn and the other contenders are being shaped by the media, so that he seems charismatic compared to Burnham, Cooper and Kendall who come across as wishy-washy. Interesting that he would ditch Trident and do away with austerity policies. At least he provides a real alternative.

 I do worry that the country's crucial services are being pared down to levels that it will be hard to recover from and will make our country poorer in all ways except economically. Only today, children's services have been decimated, following in the footsteps of cuts affecting the police, councils etc.
 It would be good to strike a better balance between economies and services, and certainly the targeting of the most vulnerable in society needs to be arrested, which Corbyn would presumably do something about.
 No Trident and no HS2 would go some way to compensating for poorly-directed austerity measures and provide a real alternative to heartless right-wing ideals. Notice how reluctant Cameron is towards helping refugees; he and IDS seem without hearts. Morality is not this government's strong suit.

8Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 09:48

Guest


Guest

Let's be honest, it wouldn't matter who the Labour Party put in charge next, as the British electorate already thinks they're unelectable, as proved by their showing in the last GE.

So (as a Labour supporter) I'm really not bothered about all this Tory-lead media spin about Corbyn being some sort of tree-hugging throwback to the days of Michael Foot and CND.

If Labour ever want to get back in, and they will eventually when everybody's fed up with the Tories (because that's how politics works), my fear is that it'll have to be under the banner of New New Labour because Thatcher did such a fantastic job of convincing the working class that they were actually "aspirational Tories", that Labour's historical core vote is long gone.

So the modern Labour Party has to be more centrist and inevitably has to be a slightly more moderate version of the Conservative Party to appeal to all the idiots who think that just because they've got Sky Telly and go to Spain for their holidays, they're middle class and should vote Tory.

So where does Corbyn fit in to all this?

Will he ever get to No 10? 

Will he bollocks.

But will his popular showing in the polls amongst the rank and file make the NEC stop and think for a minute about things like re-nationalisation of utilities and the transport infrastructure?

Possibly.

And has he engaged with younger Labour supporters who are still idealists and are the future of the movement?

It looks like it.

And does he provide an opportunity for older, disgruntled socialists like me who want to send a message about how we never really liked Blair and New Labour in the first place and want to give a bloody nose to the private school educated, career politician types who are now running OUR party?

Yes he does.

And that's about as good as it gets for the likes of me nowadays because if the options on the ballot sheet are: Tory or Tory Lite, I'd rather not get involved.

At least when I voted for him in the leadership election recently I actually felt like I was voting for someone whose convictions mirrored my own for a change.

And that hasn't happened for a long time......

9Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 10:20

Guest


Guest

I'd vote for him because he looks like my old Geography teacher.



































That's a joke by the way, I didn't like my Geography teacher so wouldn't vote for him.

10Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 10:38

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:

 I do worry that the country's crucial services are being pared down to levels that it will be hard to recover from and will make our country poorer in all ways except economically. Only today, children's services have been decimated, following in the footsteps of cuts affecting the police, councils etc.
 It would be good to strike a better balance between economies and services, and certainly the targeting of the most vulnerable in society needs to be arrested, which Corbyn would presumably do something about.
 No Trident and no HS2 would go some way to compensating for poorly-directed austerity measures and provide a real alternative to heartless right-wing ideals. Notice how reluctant Cameron is towards helping refugees; he and IDS seem without hearts. Morality is not this government's strong suit.

This. Love him or hate him but it is important that there is a strong opposition to the government of the day. Corbyn can't do any worse than Miliband. Can he?

11Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 10:45

Guest


Guest

The centre of British politics has shifted right over the last 5 years And for labour to continue to pursue it is to undermine the values of the party and what they're meant to stand for. Abstaining from the Welfare Bill was a disgrace as far as I'm concerned. Corbyn at least has clear values people can trust and believe him unlike the mainstream politicians who just float with the wind.

12Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 10:58

Guest


Guest

Soul Kitchen wrote:
Some of his policies are good but ruins it with madcap stuff.

Not looking for a row mate, but I'd be interested in which policies you see as madcap?

13Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 10:59

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:Mind you, many of our perceptions were manufactured by the heavily biased Tory media who sought to discredit Milliband with personal attacks. 


You need to let your bitterness go.

14Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:04

Chairmanda

Chairmanda
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

I think we are on the cusp of a real change in politics. Last night, in the Commons, Cameron was defeated by a mixture of Libdems, Labour and his own party on a vote re purdah period prior to Euro elections. The specific doesn't matter,the fact is that those MPs had more commonality with members of other parties than with their own heirachy. Increasingly, I think parties will fragment, and some may become single issue pressure groups, and participation by people in democracy will be more direct....there are now more people signing up for a campaign, one at random, keeping the ban on foxhunting, than those becoming a member or active supporter of a party. Technology is moving so quickly, there is no reason direct votes cant be taken on major issues, so I think the big question is how ANY party makes itself relevant to sufficient people to get elected without becoming such a broad church it fragments.

15Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:14

Guest


Guest

Really interesting piece in Private Eye about Corbyn related headlines -

Jeremy Corbyn CNz_t8bWUAAIAJ3

16Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:23

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

He's a member of the Labour Party. I think that says it all. Tool.

17Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:24

Chairmanda

Chairmanda
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

On Corbyn specifically, he falls into the trap of being too easily pigeonholed by those who want to, which the media tends to. Maybe I'm feeling a bit cynical, but having fought in the election, I now have a better idea of what it takes to win. No matter what people say, the majority default to what they believe is their comfort space when in a ballot box. There is a tendency for what that zone is to move slightly to the right, then compensate to the left, back to the right, ad infinitum, unless a major event such as war intervenes. If you want to change stuff, have principles and ideas not for hire, in national politics certainly, I'm no longer certain that you can't change things and acheve more by fighting for one important thing, rather than trying to get a party of disparate individuals to agree with you and the inevitable horse trading that involves about reciprocity in lending a vote for something you really don't like. I don't know Jeremy Corbin, but what I do know makes me think he doesn't compromise easily. I admire that in an individual, but not certain that is the best skillset for a leader of a political party needing to keep his/her party together, and potentially negotiate with other parties...both of which are necessary skills in our current system.

18Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:48

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Natasha Whittam wrote:
okocha wrote:Mind you, many of our perceptions were manufactured by the heavily biased Tory media who sought to discredit Milliband with personal attacks. 


You need to let your bitterness go.
And you need to check reality, as per the actual statistics below:

" Cameron’s Tories won the support of only around 24 per cent of all those who could have voted. The ‘none of the above’ party of non-voters totalled 34 per cent, finishing a close second this time. Millions of those who did vote will feel no more represented than those who did not."


 Of those who did vote, only a third voted Tory despite the denigration of the other parties by the right-wing press, and the decimation of Labour in Scotland by the SNP, gleefully and slyly backed  by the Tories and the Rupert Murdochs of this world. 


Whatever happened to the conclusions of Lord Leveson? ......Oh, I remember now.......Cameron refused to accept the (extremely expensive) findings because he didn't like them despite promising that he would abide by them!! Now we see signs of Tories attempting to pretend they have a mandate to do whatever they want in ways in which they think will weaken opposition parties.

19Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 11:55

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Very true is that Amanda. Even if you are in power you still need to make compromises with the opposition otherwise you will not be able to get anything passed through the house of Commons.

20Jeremy Corbyn Empty Re: Jeremy Corbyn Tue Sep 08 2015, 12:51

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

bwfc1874 wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:
Some of his policies are good but ruins it with madcap stuff.

Not looking for a row mate, but I'd be interested in which policies you see as madcap?

You said in your first six words so I won't be answering.
I think you are much better in an empty room to be honest!!

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