Wanderers crisis: Whites face winding-up order over unpaid tax while Gartside remains 'gravely ill'

gloswhite wrote:If we receive a winding up order, does that mean HMRC wont receive the £600,000 ? If that's the case, surely they would prefer to hang on as long as possible, and investigate all possibilities.
If they are at the end of that process already, then whatever happens, and if the club survives at all, we are in for a depressing, as well as a very bumpy, ride.

It would depend on what assets are available and whether or not a buyer could be found. I forget who reminded me that football clubs have a slightly different priority list in that HMRC are NOT the first in line to get paid in a situation like this. Footballing debts (eg player wages and presumably non playing staff who work directly for the football club) come first THEN it's the taxman. If the company is wound up it goes into the hands of an official receiver who's job is to try and find a buyer and keep the business running but if he/she cannot then the assets would be liquidated (ie sold off), the staff would all be laid off and BWFC would cease to exist.

What about my season ticket? I am paid up until May 2016! 

Reebok Trotter wrote:What about my season ticket? I am paid up until May 2016! 

I was thinking about all you season ticket holders.

I guess it is like any other business that goes bust, your contract is ended with them and your chance to recoup and monies owed is slim to none as you would be at the bottom of the pile.

I hope this isn't the case due to how much people have spent on their season tickets, it would be the real kick in the face to all loyal fans.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

gloswhite wrote:If we receive a winding up order, does that mean HMRC wont receive the £600,000 ? If that's the case, surely they would prefer to hang on as long as possible, and investigate all possibilities.
If they are at the end of that process already, then whatever happens, and if the club survives at all, we are in for a depressing, as well as a very bumpy, ride.

It would depend on what assets are available and whether or not a buyer could be found. I forget who reminded me that football clubs have a slightly different priority list in that HMRC are NOT the first in line to get paid in a situation like this. Footballing debts (eg player wages and presumably non playing staff who work directly for the football club) come first THEN it's the taxman. If the company is wound up it goes into the hands of an official receiver who's job is to try and find a buyer and keep the business running but if he/she cannot then the assets would be liquidated (ie sold off), the staff would all be laid off and BWFC would cease to exist.

Thanks for the clarification LPP.



I still want to know what happened to the shares I bought twenty odd years ago.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

gloswhite wrote:If we receive a winding up order, does that mean HMRC wont receive the £600,000 ? If that's the case, surely they would prefer to hang on as long as possible, and investigate all possibilities.
If they are at the end of that process already, then whatever happens, and if the club survives at all, we are in for a depressing, as well as a very bumpy, ride.

It would depend on what assets are available and whether or not a buyer could be found. I forget who reminded me that football clubs have a slightly different priority list in that HMRC are NOT the first in line to get paid in a situation like this. Footballing debts (eg player wages and presumably non playing staff who work directly for the football club) come first THEN it's the taxman. If the company is wound up it goes into the hands of an official receiver who's job is to try and find a buyer and keep the business running but if he/she cannot then the assets would be liquidated (ie sold off), the staff would all be laid off and BWFC would cease to exist.

That would be me. I'm guessing that the writing off of ED's debts paves the way also for admin, in that assets must be worth more than all the other debts, but not sufficient to cover the £180m

Thank you Manda. I've been a bit forgetful recently about stuff like this.  However, my understanding was ED will only write off the debt IF a buyer can be found BEFORE administration. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

luckyPeterpiper wrote: my understanding was ED will only write off the debt IF a buyer can be found BEFORE administration. 

And that is the key point.
If that is the case, the debt to ED will as likely as not be included in the administration which means that the creditors will outstrip the assets. 

Which is pretty much goodnight Irene for BWFC.


The consequence of that is that if ED truly has BWFC at heart, he and the team will be busting a gut to do a deal - but with one eye on protecting the club against asset-strippers.

However, if ED is in fact the spawn of the devil as Bred asserts, he will be doing everything he can to prevent a deal being struck as being the majority creditor, he'd get a fair chunk of cash back from the sale of the Macron.

wanderlust wrote:


However, if ED is in fact the spawn of the devil as Bred asserts, he will be doing everything he can to prevent a deal being struck as being the majority creditor, he'd get a fair chunk of cash back from the sale of the Macron.

As the Scouse kid in the "Drink Milk - It's Good For You!" advert said in the 80's:

Egg-sacker-leee!

It's all smoke, mirrors, lies and bullshit to allow ED and Garty to take us into Administration and still come out of it smelling of roses because they can say "Well....we tried, guys. Sorry."

But the cry will be: "But they've brought Trevor Birch in to help broker the deal with new owners?"

And my response will be: "No, he's here because he's good at preparing failing clubs for Administration and it's got cock all to go with any takeover nonsense."

And in the mean time, we're stuck playing in a rented stadium in League One with no players but that was always going to happen when he said "No mas dinero!" over a year ago, so at least this way, ED gets a few bob out of washing his hands of BWFC.

And I said this weeks ago.

Bred has got it! There was only ever going to be one winner here and that was big ED. question is who would buy the macron when there is no club to play in it? How can he asset strip and sell it when there is no bwfc?

they could sell the ground,the hotel, the car parks and all the land around it quite easily i reckon.

I think you'll find that's why Gartside was unable to come clean about any of this. As much of a crook that he is, he is a Wanderers supporter and if he knew the ED was planning on going down this route, he would've been caught in an almighty catch 22. He wouldn't want to go down in history as the man who was responsible for ending the club he supported as a boy!

Norpig wrote:they could sell the ground,the hotel, the car parks and all the land around it quite easily i reckon.

All of it is mortgaged to the hilt. If they sell it then basically the mortgage holders would have first call on the money.

Breadman wrote:

wanderlust wrote:


However, if ED is in fact the spawn of the devil as Bred asserts, he will be doing everything he can to prevent a deal being struck as being the majority creditor, he'd get a fair chunk of cash back from the sale of the Macron.

As the Scouse kid in the "Drink Milk - It's Good For You!" advert said in the 80's:

Egg-sacker-leee!

It's all smoke, mirrors, lies and bullshit to allow ED and Garty to take us into Administration and still come out of it smelling of roses because they can say "Well....we tried, guys. Sorry."

But the cry will be: "But they've brought Trevor Birch in to help broker the deal with new owners?"

And my response will be: "No, he's here because he's good at preparing failing clubs for Administration and it's got cock all to go with any takeover nonsense."

And in the mean time, we're stuck playing in a rented stadium in League One with no players but that was always going to happen when he said "No mas dinero!" over a year ago, so at least this way, ED gets a few bob out of washing his hands of BWFC.

And I said this weeks ago.

And in response I said weeks ago that we could only speculate as to EDs motives so would withhold judgement until we know more. 

And weeks on, we still know nothing.

Charity bet time? 

(And don't call my bluff by going all in and saying "Yeah, ok - £500 to a charity of the winner's choosing." I know you....)

Ten Quid to the NSPCC says HMRC will serve a winding up petition Monday unless there's a concrete announcement of a preferred bidder or deal beforehand.

Breadman wrote:Charity bet time? 

On which bit D?


The way I read it at the moment is:

• 3:1 in favour of takeover talks still being actively pursued (75%). (That's perhaps why HMRC haven't acted as they're awaiting the outcome)
  

But, terms can't be agreed and we don't know what the sticking points are. That said they aren't insurmountable otherwise it would have finished days ago. Therefore...

• 3:1 against HMRC pre-empting the decision and going for it, but with the variable of talks breaking down irreconcilably, 50:50 as to whether the announcement of HMRC action is the next event to occur
  

That said, as a creditor, I assume HMRC have a person monitoring the takeover talks so providing there's a dialogue ongoing between HMRC and the other parties, there's always a possibility that an altruist (Khan or even ED) may step in with a bridging payment if pushed.

There are other variables that I'd love to factor in but just don't have the info, but despite the smokescreen that is coming out of the BN my feeling is that Trevor Birch is still trying to broker a takeover deal. There are a few obstacles but they are thought to be surmountable and HMRC is not likely to scupper the deal unless the talks break down.

From that you should surmise I'm not a gambler but if I was to gamble on anything I would bet that talks are still proceeding with a view to a takeover at this moment in time. 


But as it's for charity I'll say £25 on a takeover rather than admin (even though I know loads of stuff could prevent it from happening) 

And if you accept and I lose, I'll pay the money to the staff wages appeal as they'll need it in that circumstance.

Fair enough?

Good of you to over complicate a simple will we/ won't we bet Lust.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Good of you to over complicate a simple will we/ won't we bet Lust.

Why use one word when ten words will do?

Call me pedantic if you must (and I know you must) but I do like to know what I'm betting on. As it's for charity, I've agreed to bet on something that could go either way - and that's unusual for me.

£25 says a takeover will go ahead. Simple enough really.

Still waiting to hear back from Bread though...

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually spend all my time on here (just 85% of it) and I've only just seen your suggestion.

£25...?

Too rich for my blood I'm afraid. (Seriously, Mrs B would twat me if I entered into an online bet for twenty five quid with "one of (your) idiot friends that you've never even met and never will".)

I'm prepared to risk a tenner on no deal being done before next Friday and the Admins stepping in.

Breadman wrote:Contrary to popular opinion, I don't actually spend all my time on here (just 85% of it) and I've only just seen your suggestion.

£25...?

Too rich for my blood I'm afraid. (Seriously, Mrs B would twat me if I entered into an online bet for twenty five quid with "one of (your) idiot friends that you've never even met and never will".)

I'm prepared to risk a tenner on no deal being done before next Friday and the Admins stepping in.

Ey'oop! Sneaky introduction of a timescale element Mr Breadman! Did I say when the hoped-for takeover would be agreed? I think not sir! And by "next Friday" are you talking about the 11th or the 18th?

OK as it's charity and as it's a tenner let's go for announcement of an agreed takeover by close of play on Friday 18th.

Agreed?

As an aside, may I suggest setting up a private account for "transactions"? Love my missus and all but how could I buy her a surprise present or two if I let her see my bank accounts?