lPp's Match Report

Hello all, big grin on my face right now and even the fact Rammywhite has cost me money won't remove it. (Seriously man, paying Connor to post! What were you thinking you .... I won't say it now because Connor might show it to Wendy)

Alright, here's how I saw it. 

The ref had a complete shocker but thankfully he was equally woeful for both teams. We were both denied a stonewall penalty in the second half and he flashed so many cards I thought I was watching a Poker Tournament. However for the first time all season it didn't kill us and it didn't take the starch out of the lads spines. I'll come to the players in a minute but I want to touch briefly on Neil Lennon. I thought he got the selection just about right today, of course there wasn't a lot of choice but the team was probably the best 11 we could start with under the circumstances. And it was an absolute joy to see his reaction when we scored and at the final whistle. He hasn't looked that happy and that animated since he first got here and I'm hoping this game has reignited the passion for the game we all know he has. 

Now onto the match. It was dire in large parts, really poor and scrappy as befitted two teams in the bottom half of the table playing a local derby. There was lots of passion, plenty of commitment and no one gave an inch but there was very little skill on show especially in the first half. On our side Clough looked like our only real threat, Madine looked a bit lost and flustered when he was in front of goal and his off the ball running was more of a headless chicken impression than any kind of space creator. Rhodes was (imo) unusually poor, I've seen him play a few times and this was the worst performance I've seen from the Rovers man. He seems to be having confidence issues much like those Elmander had under Megson. The defences were mostly solid when called on but nothing really exciting happened in the first 45 minutes.

The 2nd half was much the same for the most part but with two subtle and (imo) very important differences. I understand Wheater was given MOTM by Sky, I agree, the man was a rock and Rhodes basically bounced off him as did the rest of the Blackburn front line and midfield. Amos was also solid apart from when he booted a clearance into our own man (slight palpitations there) and deserved the luck when the ball came back off the post into his arms in stoppage time (Very near heart failure and despair when that span past him followed by me thinking God has decided it's our day after all). In fact the Trotters defence was the best I've seen so far this season. It got a bit scrambled in our box when Rovers were chucking the kitchen sink at us but in all honesty other than the handball (which the ref missed thankfully) and the deflection off the post Blackburn never really looked like scoring. Whenever there was danger a white shirt was throwing itself into the fray with more fight and commitment than I've seen in a while. All our players threw their hearts and bodies into today's game, I can't pick out a man who wasn't giving maximum effort for every second he was on the pitch. 

Madine's goal was a beauty imo. Sure it broke kindly but the shot itself was neatly placed and on balance we just about deserved to be in the lead. I felt a bit sorry for Clough who scuffed one into the side netting because his endeavour probably deserved a goal but thankfully it didn't matter in the end. We should have had a penalty ourselves but I'm not going to complain about it now because it really only balanced things out and in truth, since it was 0-0 when they were denied I think we benefitted more from the ref's failures. 

This wasn't a match to tell your grandkids about but it didn't matter. What really matters is we got the win, we finally broke the awful streak that's gone on for far too long and we finally had some luck ON the field that might help us all deal with the off field stuff a little better. 

In conclusion I'm not claiming we've turned a corner or are about to become invincible but this IS a big day for BWFC and it could turn out to be pivotal. If we do somehow survive relegation then come May I would fully expect people to look back to this match and say "That's where it changed for Bolton, that was where the turnaround in their fortunes began."

Sometimes it's not so much HOW you get the result that matters, just getting it is the catalyst we need to kick on and do better. I hope this is such a moment but as I'm sure others will point out it's too early to say. We'll only really know how important today is when the season is over but right now it's like seeing the first crack of dawn at the end of a much too long, far too dark night.

Great match report Peter, thank you.

The win as given us all a lot of happiness for a change and that has shone out from your report whilst keeping your feet firmly on the ground at the same time.

Connors a credit to you mate and is very welcome on here any day.

Let us hope that we had finally reached bottom and now we are at long last on the way up!

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Hello all, big grin on my face right now and even the fact Rammywhite has cost me money won't remove it. (Seriously man, paying Connor to post! What were you thinking you .... I won't say it now because Connor might show it to Wendy)

Alright, here's how I saw it. 

The ref had a complete shocker but thankfully he was equally woeful for both teams. We were both denied a stonewall penalty in the second half and he flashed so many cards I thought I was watching a Poker Tournament. However for the first time all season it didn't kill us and it didn't take the starch out of the lads spines. I'll come to the players in a minute but I want to touch briefly on Neil Lennon. I thought he got the selection just about right today, of course there wasn't a lot of choice but the team was probably the best 11 we could start with under the circumstances. And it was an absolute joy to see his reaction when we scored and at the final whistle. He hasn't looked that happy and that animated since he first got here and I'm hoping this game has reignited the passion for the game we all know he has. 

Now onto the match. It was dire in large parts, really poor and scrappy as befitted two teams in the bottom half of the table playing a local derby. There was lots of passion, plenty of commitment and no one gave an inch but there was very little skill on show especially in the first half. On our side Clough looked like our only real threat, Madine looked a bit lost and flustered when he was in front of goal and his off the ball running was more of a headless chicken impression than any kind of space creator. Rhodes was (imo) unusually poor, I've seen him play a few times and this was the worst performance I've seen from the Rovers man. He seems to be having confidence issues much like those Elmander had under Megson. The defences were mostly solid when called on but nothing really exciting happened in the first 45 minutes.

The 2nd half was much the same for the most part but with two subtle and (imo) very important differences. I understand Wheater was given MOTM by Sky, I agree, the man was a rock and Rhodes basically bounced off him as did the rest of the Blackburn front line and midfield. Amos was also solid apart from when he booted a clearance into our own man (slight palpitations there) and deserved the luck when the ball came back off the post into his arms in stoppage time (Very near heart failure and despair when that span past him followed by me thinking God has decided it's our day after all). In fact the Trotters defence was the best I've seen so far this season. It got a bit scrambled in our box when Rovers were chucking the kitchen sink at us but in all honesty other than the handball (which the ref missed thankfully) and the deflection off the post Blackburn never really looked like scoring. Whenever there was danger a white shirt was throwing itself into the fray with more fight and commitment than I've seen in a while. All our players threw their hearts and bodies into today's game, I can't pick out a man who wasn't giving maximum effort for every second he was on the pitch. 

Madine's goal was a beauty imo. Sure it broke kindly but the shot itself was neatly placed and on balance we just about deserved to be in the lead. I felt a bit sorry for Clough who scuffed one into the side netting because his endeavour probably deserved a goal but thankfully it didn't matter in the end. We should have had a penalty ourselves but I'm not going to complain about it now because it really only balanced things out and in truth, since it was 0-0 when they were denied I think we benefitted more from the ref's failures. 

This wasn't a match to tell your grandkids about but it didn't matter. What really matters is we got the win, we finally broke the awful streak that's gone on for far too long and we finally had some luck ON the field that might help us all deal with the off field stuff a little better. 

In conclusion I'm not claiming we've turned a corner or are about to become invincible but this IS a big day for BWFC and it could turn out to be pivotal. If we do somehow survive relegation then come May I would fully expect people to look back to this match and say "That's where it changed for Bolton, that was where the turnaround in their fortunes began."

Sometimes it's not so much HOW you get the result that matters, just getting it is the catalyst we need to kick on and do better. I hope this is such a moment but as I'm sure others will point out it's too early to say. We'll only really know how important today is when the season is over but right now it's like seeing the first crack of dawn at the end of a much too long, far too dark night.

Amen.  We need to take it one game at a time and not fall victim to losing our best players in January.  Here's hoping to a happy & healthy New Year and new ownership who will not strip the assets.

Sluffy wrote:Great match report Peter, thank you.

The win as given us all a lot of happiness for a change and that has shone out from your report whilst keeping your feet firmly on the ground at the same time.

Connors a credit to you mate and is very welcome on here any day.

Let us hope that we had finally reached bottom and now we are at long last on the way up!

Just a thought sluffy but I'd like you to put the report on the weebly site if you think it's up to snuff for there mate. Don't worry if you don't rate it enough for that, it won't send me into meltdown.

Interesting match report that clearly illustrates why we disagree sometimes.

wanderlust wrote:Interesting match report that clearly illustrates why we disagree sometimes.

Ok lusty, I'll bite. What do you disagree with?

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Great match report Peter, thank you.

The win as given us all a lot of happiness for a change and that has shone out from your report whilst keeping your feet firmly on the ground at the same time.

Connors a credit to you mate and is very welcome on here any day.

Let us hope that we had finally reached bottom and now we are at long last on the way up!

Just a thought sluffy but I'd like you to put the report on the weebly site if you think it's up to snuff for there mate. Don't worry if you don't rate it enough for that, it won't send me into meltdown.

Happy to oblige Peter - of course it is good enough.

I will ask KP or BTID to put it up as soon as they can.

Sluffy wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Great match report Peter, thank you.

The win as given us all a lot of happiness for a change and that has shone out from your report whilst keeping your feet firmly on the ground at the same time.

Connors a credit to you mate and is very welcome on here any day.

Let us hope that we had finally reached bottom and now we are at long last on the way up!

Just a thought sluffy but I'd like you to put the report on the weebly site if you think it's up to snuff for there mate. Don't worry if you don't rate it enough for that, it won't send me into meltdown.

Happy to oblige Peter - of course it is good enough.

I will ask KP or BTID to put it up as soon as they can.

Thank you. It felt really good to write something new, especially something largely positive after such a long time.

My opinion was that Blackburn never really got going Rhodes (thank God) didn't really show up the other striker caused problems early on but went off injured (Thank you) early doors i thought that the Blackburn number 10 had young Holden every time, but as the game went on he improved and had a Decent game.

The Ref was Pants and the clincher was that when we needed luck we got it, a bobbling ball off the post into Amos's hands (thank you).
Wheater was a rock aided by Moxey, whilst Prince continues to go from Sublime (speedy tackles) to ridiculous loss of possession from poor distribution.

Feeney was is usual busy self but again distribution was poor (again) Davies came in and out of the game but looks classy, Vela much more influential in midfield, aided by a committed Pratley.

Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

Madine OMG the miss first half could have been costly, really piss poor, in fact i thought he may have been substituted but by Who ? THEN he takes the ball on his chest with great strength swivels and bang 1-0 = Hero. You can't knock the fans who attended despite the season being a tragic weekly ordeal they supported the team to a man, and just maybe the great escape may be on.

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

Totally agree the kid could be special, when he first came through he seemed to be able to handle the physical part of the game for such a small kid, then the two shoulder injuries make you worry. One thing you cannot deny, is he is a real talent.

wessy wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

Totally agree the kid could be special, when he first came through he seemed to be able to handle the physical part of the game for such a small kid, then the two shoulder injuries make you worry. One thing you cannot deny, is he is a real talent.

I'm still not totally convinced about Clough. At his age - 20 pushing 21  - he should be stronger and he's had years to prepare having played against bigger and quicker defenders all his life. He hasn't got lightning pace and his close control is decent but not top class. His decision-making is also questionable at times. Put all this together and you can see why he isn't even competing for an England place compared to many of his counterparts at other clubs like Jordon Ibe or Demarai Gray or Raheem Sterling.
No doubt he is a talent but he has a way to go and needs to step up another level if he is to fulfil his potential.

But for now he continues to show touches of class but more often than not he is dealt with easily. I'm cautiously optimistic.

wanderlust wrote:

wessy wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

Totally agree the kid could be special, when he first came through he seemed to be able to handle the physical part of the game for such a small kid, then the two shoulder injuries make you worry. One thing you cannot deny, is he is a real talent.

I'm still not totally convinced about Clough. At his age - 20 pushing 21  - he should be stronger and he's had years to prepare having played against bigger and quicker defenders all his life. He hasn't got lightning pace and his close control is decent but not top class. His decision-making is also questionable at times. Put all this together and you can see why he isn't even competing for an England place compared to many of his counterparts at other clubs like Jordon Ibe or Demarai Gray or Raheem Sterling.
No doubt he is a talent but he has a way to go and needs to step up another level if he is to fulfil his potential.

But for now he continues to show touches of class but more often than not he is dealt with easily. I'm cautiously optimistic.

His chances at an international cap are zero or close to it while he plays in the championship mate. Sterling wouldn't get a look in if he was at say Preston North End. The sad fact is that talent is often less important to the England manager than where someone plays (ie which club he's at) as was amply demonstrated by both Michael Ricketts and Kevin Davies. 

Even Cahill struggled to break through before he went to Chelsea. 

With all that said I understand your reservations and to some extent I agree with them. However I think too much is now expected of players far too early in part because of the way Rooney burst onto the scene alng with the likes of Owen and Beckham before him. Such players are the exception not the norm and I feel we need to stop expecting kids of 19,20 and 21 to be the finished article because very, very few of them have the complete package when they're that young. 

Cautiously optimistic is pretty much a perfect summation of how I view Clough and how I think he SHOULD be viewed, he's not there yet but the signs are bright and while he may never be a Ronaldo or Messi I do think he could become a very fine striker.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

wessy wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

Totally agree the kid could be special, when he first came through he seemed to be able to handle the physical part of the game for such a small kid, then the two shoulder injuries make you worry. One thing you cannot deny, is he is a real talent.

I'm still not totally convinced about Clough. At his age - 20 pushing 21  - he should be stronger and he's had years to prepare having played against bigger and quicker defenders all his life. He hasn't got lightning pace and his close control is decent but not top class. His decision-making is also questionable at times. Put all this together and you can see why he isn't even competing for an England place compared to many of his counterparts at other clubs like Jordon Ibe or Demarai Gray or Raheem Sterling.
No doubt he is a talent but he has a way to go and needs to step up another level if he is to fulfil his potential.

But for now he continues to show touches of class but more often than not he is dealt with easily. I'm cautiously optimistic.

His chances at an international cap are zero or close to it while he plays in the championship mate. Sterling wouldn't get a look in if he was at say Preston North End. The sad fact is that talent is often less important to the England manager than where someone plays (ie which club he's at) as was amply demonstrated by both Michael Ricketts and Kevin Davies. 

Even Cahill struggled to break through before he went to Chelsea. 

With all that said I understand your reservations and to some extent I agree with them. However I think too much is now expected of players far too early in part because of the way Rooney burst onto the scene alng with the likes of Owen and Beckham before him. Such players are the exception not the norm and I feel we need to stop expecting kids of 19,20 and 21 to be the finished article because very, very few of them have the complete package when they're that young. 

Cautiously optimistic is pretty much a perfect summation of how I view Clough and how I think he SHOULD be viewed, he's not there yet but the signs are bright and while he may never be a Ronaldo or Messi I do think he could become a very fine striker.

Sheff Wed, Bury, Birmingham, Brighton, Wolves and Preston all have players in the current England U21 squad. Brentford, Boro and Hull also have U21 loanees from Prem clubs.

But isn't your argument based on the fact that top Premiership clubs get the best kids anyway?

I know it helps if you're playing for a prem club but it's pretty obvious that at U21 level if you're good enough it doesn't matter which club you play for. (I think that's different at senior level as they place more emphasis on the standard of opposition)

Clough could become a decent Prem quality striker - but so could loads of other prospects at various stages of development - including our own Samazideh - and only time will tell which ones make it.

I just think his current performances aren't quite right yet (generally good but not brilliant) and I think that some of the people who are raving about him are very forgiving about his mistakes (because of his age and size) compared to those made by older players whereas in reality he should be compared objectively pass for pass, tackle for tackle. 

That's why I think Holding actually played better than Clough yesterday if you look at it objectively. It would be interesting to see the stats for pass completion, tackles, ground covered, chances created etc to see if that argument stands up as I suspect it does.

wanderlust wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

wessy wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wessy wrote:
Clough again shows signs of real potential hits a post but knocked off the ball a little to easily at times.

That's a common and to some degree justifiable complaint. In response I believe he just needs some time and perhaps a slightly different training regimen/diet in order to add some bulk and muscle to the already burgeoning talent. Not everyone is built like Wayne Rooney at 16, in fact most men don't achieve full muscle mass etc until their mid 20's according to the BMA website. (Yes I looked, engaging my not so hidden geek once more  )

A bit of time, some strengthening exercises, a few steaks and some experience on the pitch will all benefit him and hopefully us in the long run.

Totally agree the kid could be special, when he first came through he seemed to be able to handle the physical part of the game for such a small kid, then the two shoulder injuries make you worry. One thing you cannot deny, is he is a real talent.

I'm still not totally convinced about Clough. At his age - 20 pushing 21  - he should be stronger and he's had years to prepare having played against bigger and quicker defenders all his life. He hasn't got lightning pace and his close control is decent but not top class. His decision-making is also questionable at times. Put all this together and you can see why he isn't even competing for an England place compared to many of his counterparts at other clubs like Jordon Ibe or Demarai Gray or Raheem Sterling.
No doubt he is a talent but he has a way to go and needs to step up another level if he is to fulfil his potential.

But for now he continues to show touches of class but more often than not he is dealt with easily. I'm cautiously optimistic.

His chances at an international cap are zero or close to it while he plays in the championship mate. Sterling wouldn't get a look in if he was at say Preston North End. The sad fact is that talent is often less important to the England manager than where someone plays (ie which club he's at) as was amply demonstrated by both Michael Ricketts and Kevin Davies. 

Even Cahill struggled to break through before he went to Chelsea. 

With all that said I understand your reservations and to some extent I agree with them. However I think too much is now expected of players far too early in part because of the way Rooney burst onto the scene alng with the likes of Owen and Beckham before him. Such players are the exception not the norm and I feel we need to stop expecting kids of 19,20 and 21 to be the finished article because very, very few of them have the complete package when they're that young. 

Cautiously optimistic is pretty much a perfect summation of how I view Clough and how I think he SHOULD be viewed, he's not there yet but the signs are bright and while he may never be a Ronaldo or Messi I do think he could become a very fine striker.

Sheff Wed, Bury, Birmingham, Brighton, Wolves and Preston all have players in the current England U21 squad. Brentford, Boro and Hull also have U21 loanees from Prem clubs.

But isn't your argument based on the fact that top Premiership clubs get the best kids anyway?

I know it helps if you're playing for a prem club but it's pretty obvious that at U21 level if you're good enough it doesn't matter which club you play for. (I think that's different at senior level as they place more emphasis on the standard of opposition)

Clough could become a decent Prem quality striker - but so could loads of other prospects at various stages of development - including our own Samazideh - and only time will tell which ones make it.

I just think his current performances aren't quite right yet (generally good but not brilliant) and I think that some of the people who are raving about him are very forgiving about his mistakes (because of his age and size) compared to those made by older players whereas in reality he should be compared objectively pass for pass, tackle for tackle. 

That's why I think Holding actually played better than Clough yesterday if you look at it objectively. It would be interesting to see the stats for pass completion, tackles, ground covered, chances created etc to see if that argument stands up as I suspect it does.

I misunderstood you thanks to the reference to Sterling. I thought you were talking about the full international side not the U-21's. As it happens I think Clough deserves to be in that setup because Sterling and a couple of the other kids you mentioned are close to if not ready for the step up Senior level. Holding had a good game yesterday. I take nothing away from him at all but I think you're being a bit overly critical of Clough. I feel he's not the sort of old fashioned centre forward who will ever muscle defenders off the ball or leap like a salmon to win every header. He's not Kevin Davies, he's more about clever touches and being in the right place at the right moment to poach goals. His positional play was excellent yesterday and while he scuffed his best chance into the side netting I wouldn't hold that against him too much because no one ever has an absolutely perfect error free game.

Can someone precis all that lot and tell me what they're arguing about please?

Thanks to the internet, I no longer have the mental capacity to work through long posts because I get bored very quickly.

Thanks.

Lpp to lusty

You're a dick

Lusty to lpp

No, you're  a dick

Lpp to lusty

Least i have a dick

Lusty to lpp

Yeah, on your head

Lpp to lusty

Better than it being stuck up a sheep

Lusty to lpp

You win

Kp to both

I love dick

*this may not actually be what was said, i didnt read it either

Breadman wrote:Can someone precis all that lot and tell me what they're arguing about please?

Thanks to the internet, I no longer have the mental capacity to work through long posts because I get bored very quickly.

Thanks.

Clough is an overrated jug eared cunt, basically

Cheers fellas.

Why couldn't they have just said it like that instead of using words and stuff?

Boggersbelief wrote:

Breadman wrote:Can someone precis all that lot and tell me what they're arguing about please?

Thanks to the internet, I no longer have the mental capacity to work through long posts because I get bored very quickly.

Thanks.

Clough is an overrated jug eared cunt, basically

I disagree