Latest shit from the ST

For everything they've said, they've got nothing. No influence on anything whatsoever. Just sitting around waiting for sports shield to fuck up. Useless.

Breadman wrote:I've just commented on there that the fact that they've let slip that Birch asked them to get involved in the bidding process proves that what I've believed all along is true: Eddie Davies was behind the setting up of the Truss.

Fucking joke.

Aye. And I would expect ED to pop out at sometime to gather some more money. Possibly vulture attack when things go pear shaped again He hasn't simply disappeared into the night. But then, I'm a suspicion fanny.

Breadman wrote:I've just commented on there that the fact that they've let slip that Birch asked them to get involved in the bidding process proves that what I've believed all along is true: Eddie Davies was behind the setting up of the Truss.

Fucking joke.

It always pointed towards that so good to get some confirmation that it was so.

I've said all along that Birch was the man who handed over Portsmouth and Hearts to their ST's and within 5 minutes of him rolling up at Bolton a ST suddenly sprang to life here AND modelled itself first on the Portsmouth then latterly on the Hearts model despite all of the what couple of hundred other ST models to choose from.

Funny how this INDEPENDANT Supporters Trust of ours did the bidding of the then club EMPLOYEE Trevor Birch.  So much for not having their strings pulled by someone with a specific agenda.

Wonder who put them in touch with the 90 rich individuals and 30 businesses to fund them?  

Also have you noticed a complete shift in tone from the ST - they no longer seek a seat on the board, nor expect answers to their financial questionnaire they came out with (Deans to busy to do that apparently!), they don't want to even become a pressure group to seek answers from the new owners but simply now want to earn their respect!

I read into that exactly what I've said all along, that those people who have put millions of their own money into the club have told the ST to fuck off as I expected any sane person would.

Why on earth did they think they would get a say in the running of the club when they were actually an actively rival bidder attempting to stop Holdsworth taking over by seeking to become the preferred bidder - and at the instigation of the owners agent who was selling the club in the first place!

The only reason for there to be an ST was finally acknowledged tonight in that it is the required safety net to take on the club when there is nothing of value left in it anymore.

Too many ego's obviously believed they could live their dream of owning the club and have been played by Birch all along until Davies obviously must have got what he had wanted in selling the club eventually to Holdsworth.

Clearly Davies had a much stronger hand to play if he was seen to have two options to sell to rather than Holdsworth holding all the aces if he was just the sole bidder.

It's hardly rocket science is it!

Breadman wrote:I've just commented on there that the fact that they've let slip that Birch asked them to get involved in the bidding process proves that what I've believed all along is true: Eddie Davies was behind the setting up of the Truss.

Birch has fallen back on fans groups before to save clubs worked for, don't think it definitely means Davies asked him? 

But if he did would that necessarily be anything sinister? Could easily be a lack of confidence any buyer would come through?

bwfc1874 wrote:

Breadman wrote:I've just commented on there that the fact that they've let slip that Birch asked them to get involved in the bidding process proves that what I've believed all along is true: Eddie Davies was behind the setting up of the Truss.

Birch has fallen back on fans groups before to save clubs worked for, don't think it definitely means Davies asked him? 

But if he did would that necessarily be anything sinister? Could easily be a lack of confidence any buyer would come through?

There is a crucial difference between acting as the Administrator of a club under Administration and handing control over to a ST and acting as an EMPLOYEE at BWFC and asking a group of people to form an ST with the sole purpose of seeking ownership via preferred bidder status, whilst at least one other business was seeking to buy the club.

Clearly having what seemed like a second bidder for the club would give the then owner Eddie Davies a far stronger bargaining position than if there was only one potential bidder, in which case they (Holdsworth) would have had all the aces to play in buying the club.

As an Administrator Birch's job would be to get the best deal for the creditors of the club in Administration.  As an employee of Davies, Birch's job would be to get the best deal for Eddie at the cost of the eventual purchaser, Holdsworth.

It would seem that Birch manipulated circumstances by using the ST to make things more favourable for Eddie Davies and less favourable to Holdsworth.

That is my opinion of things anyway - why else would an EMPLOYEE of a company ask another group (the ST) to actively seek Preferred Bidder status to take it over unless there was a benefit to his employer Eddie Davies?

Maybe he saw them as a good backup if shit hit the fan and no buyer came through.

bwfc1874 wrote:Maybe he saw them as a good backup if shit hit the fan and no buyer came through.

He clearly manipulated them - with their willingness to do so - they admitted that themselves tonight.

So much for their claim to be independent.

They clearly have no sway with Holdsworth now - can you blame him either - after all they did plot against him.

They've fucked up big time and they've not even managed to hold even their very first election yet!

You simply can't behave how they have done on a public funded body such as a ST.  They have no understanding whatsoever of public accountability and consequently they will be on the outside of things whilst Holdsworth and his mates own the club.

Hard to imagine them making a bigger cock up of things if they tried.

They simply should have done what they were tasked to do namely set up the elections for the ST and thereafter let democratic and open decisions be made and not tried to get involved in the Machiavellian dealings of Birch in his capacity as an Eddie Davies employee.

It wasn't rocket science and if they had stuck to what they had to do rather than get played by people very much smarter than themselves they would still have had a credibility and integrity that they have now already flushed down the toilet by their own egotistical actions.

That post is entirely based on the assumption you make on the first line though, no reason to believe you're wrong but there's no evidence to pose it with the certainty you have.

bwfc1874 wrote:That post is entirely based on the assumption you make on the first line though, no reason to believe you're wrong but there's no evidence to pose it with the certainty you have.

It is no assumption it is a stated FACT made in public by a member of the ST's Steering Group (whose only mandate was prepare the elections for their first AGM).

Sluffy wrote:
Q - Why did the trust ask for preferred bidder status and ask to buy the club?

Bill Dawson: Why did we get involved? The trust was asked by Trevor Birch.

Trevor Birch - EMPLOYED by Eddie Davies (then club owner)

The board of Bolton Wanderers Football Club has today, Tuesday 17 November, announced the appointment of Trevor Birch to act on behalf of the club and owner with immediate effect.

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Bill Dawson - Steering Group Member of the INDEPENDANT Supporters Trust.

Vice Chair of Deloitte LLP. Heading the financial advisory sector. Specialising in restructuring and insolvency for 29 years. A member of the R3 public policy committee. Lifelong Wanderers supporter.

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can i claim a refund on my tenner now please? 

Norpig wrote:can i claim a refund on my tenner now please? 

Mate stick with them but make sure there is a clean sweep out of all of these muppets at the elections as they have up to now ruined the credibility and integrity of the ST and shown them up to be egotistical chancers who were played to perfection by Birch.

The ST will get nothing more than any crumbs from Holdsworth that he may have to give them following any footballing rules and regulations that are required to be observed.

Hopefully the elections will bring in a new broom of people who are there to do the job properly for the public benefit of all and act independently and fairly to everyone.

Clearly working with Davies to pervert the Holdsworth bid was not independent or fair and neither was it open and transparent as they claimed would be the cornerstone on which the ST would be built.

The ST will be needed one day when everything as eventually gone bad for the club and by that time I hope they have people who want to do the right thing of being honest and fair custodians of the club and not some egocentric chancers who tried to grab for everything for themselves and got left with nothing.

Unreal stuff.

Birch's job was to ensure that there were plenty of options at a time when there were few. He was paid to do it and asking the ST to get involved just seems like a natural part of his work.

Twisting that to support a spurious conspiracy theory is the only obvious manipulation going on here. The theory may be true but this doesn't prove anything.

Sluffy wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:That post is entirely based on the assumption you make on the first line though, no reason to believe you're wrong but there's no evidence to pose it with the certainty you have.

It is no assumption it is a stated FACT made in public by a member of the ST's Steering Group (whose only mandate was prepare the elections for their first AGM).

Sluffy wrote:
Q - Why did the trust ask for preferred bidder status and ask to buy the club?

Bill Dawson: Why did we get involved? The trust was asked by Trevor Birch.

Trevor Birch - EMPLOYED by Eddie Davies (then club owner)

The board of Bolton Wanderers Football Club has today, Tuesday 17 November, announced the appointment of Trevor Birch to act on behalf of the club and owner with immediate effect.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Bill Dawson - Steering Group Member of the INDEPENDANT Supporters Trust.

Vice Chair of Deloitte LLP. Heading the financial advisory sector. Specialising in restructuring and insolvency for 29 years. A member of the R3 public policy committee. Lifelong Wanderers supporter.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm not debating it happened Sluffy, just the motive behind it. You seem to suggest it was a sinister tactic engineered by Ed, I think it's just birch having a contingency.

It's the way it was done that's the problem.

It was all sold as a noble band of concerned fans getting together to try and protect the interests of the club and was supposed to be completely 100% independent thereof.

But it transpires (as suspected by plenty of us) that it wasn't like that at all.

It looks very likely that ED engineered its creation and backed it like the CIA does with "rebels" and "freedom fighters" in far off lands, ie provide funding and weapons with complete deniability by using various third parties (Birch and Supporters Direct in this case).

Nothing these people have said has sounded genuine to me right from the off.

They have trumpeted their independence at every turn and made out that they were acting independently of the club but this revelation about Birch blows that idea out of the water and now explains some of the ridiculous decision making that's gone on.

The whole thing's been a farce from the off and they have absolutely zero cred in my book.

They have lied about quite a fundamental facet of their operation - not made an honest mistake, openly fucking lied and that's enough for me.

bwfc1874 wrote:
I'm not debating it happened Sluffy, just the motive behind it. You seem to suggest it was a sinister tactic engineered by Ed, I think it's just birch having a contingency.

wanderlust wrote:Birch's job was to ensure that there were plenty of options at a time when there were few. He was paid to do it and asking the ST to get involved just seems like a natural part of his work.

Twisting that to support a spurious conspiracy theory is the only obvious manipulation going on here. The theory may be true but this doesn't prove anything.

You are both missing the point.

It is not that Birch 'played' the ST which is abundantly clear now BUT that the ST went along with it instead of saying NO.

They actively conspired with Birch (working on behalf of Davies as the SELLER remember and not for the benefit of the club itself per se) to create a rival bidder against Holdsworth and thus maximise Davies hand in his negotiations with Holdsworth (whose hand was at the same time subsequently weakened).

If I'm not explain myself clearly then think of an analogy of selling an house or maybe selling something at an auction.  If there is only one person interested in your house or an item at auction, you will end up receiving considerably less for it than if someone else was seemingly interested and bidding for it too!

It's not rocket science.

Birch manipulated the market for the sale of Davies club by getting the INDEPENDANT Supporters Trust to put £7 million on the table as a bid in their own right.

Holdsworth eventually bought the club with a down payment of just a bit more than that at £7.5 million.  Similar numbers I'm sure you will agree.

Where did the ST find the 8 backers willing to put up £7 million in just a matter of days out of 90 rich individuals and 30 businesses?  Have you any idea how long in fact it takes just to seek and secure just one sponsorship from an individual or business let alone chasing down 120 leads???

I wonder where they got their leads from in the first place!!!

The UNELECTED ST given only a mandate to set up the elections for the initial AGM should have turned Birch's approach down flat.

It wasn't up to the unelected Steering Group to make the decision to go fund raising in an attempt to buy the club and thus prevent Holdsworth from doing so.

The effect of all this was Holdsworth probably paid a great deal more to buy the club than he might otherwise if the ST had not become actively involved and physically sought Preferred Bidder status and raised £7 million in pledges to do so.

Davies therefore got more money out of it for himself and Holdsworth had less money to invest in the club itself simply because Birch suckered the muppets on the unelected (and independent!) ST in to doing what he wanted by pandering to their egos of wanting to become big cheeses at the club themselves!

The ST may well have cost Holdsworth hundreds of thousands of pounds that have now found its way into Davies pocket and not available to invest in the club that it might very well have been earmarked for.

I don't blame Davies for being canny enough to get Birch to work on his behalf.

I don't blame Birch for being smart enough to pull the strings of the egocentrical muppets on the ST who were stitched up like a kipper by him.

I do however blame the ST non elected members for being utterly and completely played by Birch, deviating totally from their one and only remit to set up the elections for the ST and by ruining the ST's stated cornerstone aim of standing for honesty, openness, integrity and clarity by their non constitutional and self serving ambitions of wanting to own the club.

They should have said NO to Birch.  It was an easy thing to say no about as it was completely outside their remit for being.

But they didn't.

So much for being independent.

So much now for having a say with the new owners who they plotted against.

The quicker those involved in the Steering Group are gone for good from the ST the better and the sooner the ST can start to rebuild its integrity and reputation.

No wonder Hurst the acting Chair of the Steering Group said they now are looking to get "the respect of the new ownership"!

They should never have lost it by their stupid non constitutional actions of getting involved with Birch and actively acting against them in the first place!

You could be right, but you're only basing this on the fact Birch asked the ST to make a bid. At which point he could have believed the Holdsworth deal was dead and had no chance of succeeding, so needed a contingency - hardly difficult to imagine given what we know about backers pulling out, their current finances etc.

bwfc1874 wrote:You could be right, but you're only basing this on the fact Birch asked the ST to make a bid. At which point he could have believed the Holdsworth deal was dead and had no chance of succeeding, so needed a contingency - hardly difficult to imagine given what we know about backers pulling out, their current finances etc.

That may be plausible if your starting point is that the ST was set up innocently by the 3 Amigos, off their own back with the best of genuine intentions.

But it wasn't.

It was set up by Eddie Davies expressly for the purposes outlined previously by Sluffy and myself.

We're right, you're wrong - suck it up and stop arguing.

It's done, over......finito.

Fact!

Nothing to see here, move on.......  

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

bwfc1874 wrote:You could be right, but you're only basing this on the fact Birch asked the ST to make a bid. At which point he could have believed the Holdsworth deal was dead and had no chance of succeeding, so needed a contingency - hardly difficult to imagine given what we know about backers pulling out, their current finances etc.

You seem to be deliberately missing the point.

For whatever reason Birch asked the ST to make a bid was for the benefit of who he was working for, the owner of the club Eddie Davies and NOT for the sole interest of the club itself.

If he had asked the ST to make a bid if he was the ADMINISTRATOR of the club in Administration there would be no issue from me but the FACT was the club was NOT in administration and he was EMPLOYED by EDDIE DAVIES to secure Eddie Davies BEST INTEREST - namely to get as much money for him through whatever means in selling his club!

The muppets on the Steering Group were mandated to do one job and one job only - namely establish the elections to bring the ST into being.

It was not their role to get involved with the sale of the club, nor to purchase themselves. They had no constitution or democratically elected mandate to do so.

It strikes me as odd in the extreme that they were formed within days of Birch being employed by Davies and able at the drop of an hat to come up with £7 million in pledges when such a some of money was suddenly required.

It clearly seems to me that the ST was used and manipulated as a vehicle for the best interests of the owner Eddie Davies by his paid agent Trevor Birch.

Now whether they were formed specifically for that purpose or formed in good faith and played by Birch for Davies benefit I will let others decide for themselves but the facts clearly are that the ST were manipulated by Birch to the betterment of Davies financial position and the detriment of Holdsworth's and that what was best for the club per se was not even an issue as the more Davies gained from the ST manipulation the less Holdsworth eventually had to invest in the club when he eventually took control of it.

It is little wonder that the outcome of all the shenanigans the ST got themselves involved in (at Birch's request in his paid capacity of an employee of Eddie Davies) has resulted in them being shut out completely from Holdsworth the new owner and humbling themselves to try and gain some respect from him back.

They had no reason nor mandate to get involved in the selling of the club, they were not formed to do anything other than set up the elections and could and SHOULD have declined Birch's advances to get involved and raise £7 million to seek Preferred Bidder status AND even attempting to torpedo Holdsworth on the eve of the court action by demanding he answered a 1001 questions on his bids finances!

The whole of the Steering Group should resign and be banned from any further involvement in the ST in my opinion.