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BWFCST open business

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1BWFCST open business Empty BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:32

Guest


Guest
you can now turn your pledge into membership via their website.

So who is going to?

2BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 10:59

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
i'm still willing to see what they can do, it's only a tenner at the end of the day. Deano seemed keen to get them on board so hopefully it's not just lip service

3BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 11:11

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I'm in.
I'd only waste it on bandages. Very Happy

4BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 11:59

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Nah.

5BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 12:48

Guest


Guest
Just done it, certainly think it's worth seeing what they can do over the next 12 months, Holdsworth certainly seems interested in getting them involved.

6BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 13:40

Fabians Right Peg

Fabians Right Peg
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Yep I will be in, better to be involved than not.

7BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 13:41

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Nah.
 what a surprise  Rolling Eyes

8BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 14:00

Bollotom2014

Bollotom2014
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I'm in as of this morning, though I wonder if the ST, ED and SS are not in collusion judging by what is coming out. Something just doesn't seem right and the possibility of SS not being forthcoming with the FL may be a sign of a bit of chicanery. But as said, it's only a tenner. I ignored the expected call for a voluntary donation. If the players are on that much they can have a whip-round in the dressing room.

9BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 15:26

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
As I wasn't allowed to pick the team or sign players, I'm keeping my £10.

10BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Mon Feb 29 2016, 23:42

Biggie

Biggie
Admin
What's all this tenner business about? Can someone fill me in?

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk

11BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 00:20

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
You can join the Bolton Wanderers Supporters Trust for an initial cost of a £10 membership.

The payment guarantees you absolutely nothing apart from voting into office the people to represent the ST.

The ST's aim is to have a say in the running of the club.

I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

They are parting with their money on a premise that is far from certain to be delivered, in order to vote in people they probably have no idea about to represent them and giving their money to an organisation that has not told anyone what they would spend it on.

It would seem the old saying that 'a fool and their money are easily parted' is alive and currently in action in the Bolton area today and for a while thereafter.

12BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 01:17

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
I juts spent my £10 membership fee on vanilla bean ice cream.

13BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 06:20

Fabians Right Peg

Fabians Right Peg
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

I suppose in a way you have summed up the basis for what I hope will be the reason that any owner has to listen to the ST.

Yes many of us have an emotional attachment to the club and it could be argued that those of us that still go regular are beyond hope and are in effect a sure fire earner for the new owner.

However if they want to make money they have to attract back those that have voted with there feet, for some that would have been because of the football, for others it may have been to do with the way the club went and it's image.

Ultimately the owner needs the current core fans to encourage others to come back to the club and that means communicating with us, and keeping us happy, how many of us would tell a friend to come to a game, not just for the football but because it's a great day out?

Any sensible owner will engage with as many supporters groups as possible, I also want to see the ST get involved in encouraging younger fans to the macron, hell open a full block for anyone with an under 8 year old and let them in for a fiver first come first served basis.

We need to build for the future and hopefully a proper ST can help do that.

14BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 06:29

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Can't help feeling I've been suckered by one of those deep south snake oil salesmen,but,as Bread has already said,a fool and his money........... jocolor

Wonder if it'll help me win on Goldline?

15BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 07:24

Guest


Guest
@boltonbonce wrote:Can't help feeling I've been suckered by one of those deep south snake oil salesmen,but,as Bread has already said,a fool and his money........... jocolor

Wonder if it'll help me win on Goldline?
Do you not get free entry into the ST if you are in Goldline?

16BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 08:25

Guest


Guest
@Fabians Right Peg wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

I suppose in a way you have summed up the basis for what I hope will be the reason that any owner has to listen to the ST.

Yes many of us have an emotional attachment to the club and it could be argued that those of us that still go regular are beyond hope and are in effect a sure fire earner for the new owner.

However if they want to make money they have to attract back those that have voted with there feet, for some that would have been because of the football, for others it may have been to do with the way the club went and it's image.

Ultimately the owner needs the current core fans to encourage others to come back to the club and that means communicating with us, and keeping us happy, how many of us would tell a friend to come to a game, not just for the football but because it's a great day out?

Any sensible owner will engage with as many supporters groups as possible, I also want to see the ST get involved in encouraging younger fans to the macron, hell open a full block for anyone with an under 8 year old and let them in for a fiver first come first served basis.

We need to build for the future and hopefully a proper ST can help do that.

Well said Fab, agree with that. Plenty of reasons that any new owner would want to engage the ST, worth parting with a tenner to see what they manage to do for a year. Doesn't make anybody a fool for doing so IMO.

17BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 08:33

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
bwfc1874 wrote:
Well said Fab, agree with that. Plenty of reasons that any new owner would want to engage the ST, worth parting with a tenner to see what they manage to do for a year. Doesn't make anybody a fool for doing so IMO.

I spent my £10 on ten packs of Twirls. Who is the fool now??

18BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 08:35

Guest


Guest
Sluffy, he doesn't have Twirls or an ST membership.

19BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 08:44

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You can join the Bolton Wanderers Supporters Trust for an initial cost of a £10 membership.

The payment guarantees you absolutely nothing apart from voting into office the people to represent the ST.

The ST's aim is to have a say in the running of the club.

I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

They are parting with their money on a premise that is far from certain to be delivered, in order to vote in people they probably have no idea about to represent them and giving their money to an organisation that has not told anyone what they would spend it on.

It would seem the old saying that 'a fool and their money are easily parted' is alive and currently in action in the Bolton area today and for a while thereafter.
Sluffy i get that you're against the ST but calling fans who want to see what they can achieve fools is just not on. 
 If you want to call me a fool, carry on as i will be putting up my £10 and not just sitting back and moaning about the ST without actually doing anything about it.

Your hatred of one of the steering group is clouding your judgement on all this and you are coming across as sanctimonius

20BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 10:06

Guest


Guest
@boltonbonce wrote:Can't help feeling I've been suckered by one of those deep south snake oil salesmen,but,as Bread has already said,a fool and his money........... jocolor


Not me, Guv!

Although I do agree with Sluffy's sentiment.

21BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 10:52

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If you want to call me a fool, carry on

If you insist. FOOL!

22BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 11:05

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I juts spent my £10 membership fee on vanilla bean ice cream.
Glad to see someone has some sense. Very Happy

23BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 11:13

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If you want to call me a fool, carry on

If you insist. FOOL!
 better than the usual utter bellend i suppose

24BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 11:24

Guest


Guest
@karlypants wrote:
@finlaymcdanger wrote:I juts spent my £10 membership fee on vanilla bean ice cream.
Glad to see someone has some sense. Very Happy

£10 on ice cream? Ripped off and a boring flavour.

25BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 12:31

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You can join the Bolton Wanderers Supporters Trust for an initial cost of a £10 membership.

The payment guarantees you absolutely nothing apart from voting into office the people to represent the ST.

The ST's aim is to have a say in the running of the club.

I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

They are parting with their money on a premise that is far from certain to be delivered, in order to vote in people they probably have no idea about to represent them and giving their money to an organisation that has not told anyone what they would spend it on.

It would seem the old saying that 'a fool and their money are easily parted' is alive and currently in action in the Bolton area today and for a while thereafter.
Sluffy i get that you're against the ST but calling fans who want to see what they can achieve fools is just not on. 
 If you want to call me a fool, carry on as i will be putting up my £10 and not just sitting back and moaning about the ST without actually doing anything about it.

Your hatred of one of the steering group is clouding your judgement on all this and you are coming across as sanctimonius

Mate, I hate no one, life's to short but there are people I simply don't trust and for good reason.

I'm sorry if you don't like my take on the ST, it is nothing personal to you nor anybody else, it is simply a rationale view of the ST's aim and prospect of achieving it.

If you put away your emotional view of me and the ST for one moment and examine what I've said in my post above, then what exactly can you disagree with?

Are the ST certain to achieve a place on the new board or even a say in how to run the business?  - No.

Do you know who is standing to be elected in the ST? - No.

Do you know what the ST intends to spend the money donated to it by well meaning fans of the club? - No.


If Mrs Norpig told you that she had given out £10's to complete stranger off the street, who said they were going to get your favourite group to do a gig in your local pub - would you think that was a sensible thing for her to do?

Yes, the ST 'might' achieve a voice to be heard on the new board and similarly yes, your favourite band might do a one night stand at your local - but I think the chances of either are slim - don't you?

If you think I'm being sanctimonious for simply thinking with my head than with my heart, then yes, I probably then am, I'm certainly not ashamed of looking first before leaping.

If you want to give your £10 to somebody you don't know, have no idea what they might spend it on and with no guarantee what so ever of having any voice on the new board - then go right ahead, as it is your money to spend how you like.

26BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 12:55

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

I suppose in a way you have summed up the basis for what I hope will be the reason that any owner has to listen to the ST.

Yes many of us have an emotional attachment to the club and it could be argued that those of us that still go regular are beyond hope and are in effect a sure fire earner for the new owner.

However if they want to make money they have to attract back those that have voted with there feet, for some that would have been because of the football, for others it may have been to do with the way the club went and it's image.

Ultimately the owner needs the current core fans to encourage others to come back to the club and that means communicating with us, and keeping us happy, how many of us would tell a friend to come to a game, not just for the football but because it's a great day out?

Any sensible owner will engage with as many supporters groups as possible, I also want to see the ST get involved in encouraging younger fans to the macron, hell open a full block for anyone with an under 8 year old and let them in for a fiver first come first served basis.

We need to build for the future and hopefully a proper ST can help do that.

Idealistic rhetoric I'm afraid.

It's ultimately the product that matters not the marketing.

Football fans are in the main fickle and a successful team draws a bigger crowd than a poorly performing team does.

Price and accessibility is also a big factor to many and that is why people started watching games in the local pubs on dodgy streams rather than go to the game even when we were being successful.

Style of play also effects attendance - nobody wanted to continually see Megson's style of football - even though it was effective.  We stayed in the Premier but lost fans.

However the owners took a different tack, appointed Coyle and his one way of playing - all out attack - with a disastrous outcome of relegation - which resulted in even lower crowds in the lower tier of the Championship.

Yes you probably could get some fans to return at the margins but not in any significant numbers until the team becomes successful again.

The people behind Holdsworth are businessmen simply won't be building the success of the business on the naive idea of simply trying to attracting a few hundred/ thousand fans back on match day.  Their business plan - and thus intended profit is not based on that premise and therefore the ST's involvement may well be tolerated and given lip service but I very much doubt much more than that.

The ST will only come into its own when the club is shorn of assets and investors can no longer see it viable to make a profit from investing in it for the while.

27BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 12:58

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

I suppose in a way you have summed up the basis for what I hope will be the reason that any owner has to listen to the ST.

Yes many of us have an emotional attachment to the club and it could be argued that those of us that still go regular are beyond hope and are in effect a sure fire earner for the new owner.

However if they want to make money they have to attract back those that have voted with there feet, for some that would have been because of the football, for others it may have been to do with the way the club went and it's image.

Ultimately the owner needs the current core fans to encourage others to come back to the club and that means communicating with us, and keeping us happy, how many of us would tell a friend to come to a game, not just for the football but because it's a great day out?

Any sensible owner will engage with as many supporters groups as possible, I also want to see the ST get involved in encouraging younger fans to the macron, hell open a full block for anyone with an under 8 year old and let them in for a fiver first come first served basis.

We need to build for the future and hopefully a proper ST can help do that.

Idealistic rhetoric I'm afraid.

It's ultimately the product that matters not the marketing.

Football fans are in the main fickle and a successful team draws a bigger crowd than a poorly performing team does.

Price and accessibility is also a big factor to many and that is why people started watching games in the local pubs on dodgy streams rather than go to the game even when we were being successful.

Style of play also effects attendance - nobody wanted to continually see Megson's style of football - even though it was effective.  We stayed in the Premier but lost fans.

However the owners took a different tack - based on overwhelming fan influence - appointed Coyle and his one way of playing - all out attack - with an ultimately disastrous outcome of relegation - which resulted in even lower crowds in the lower tier of the Championship.

Yes you probably could get some fans to return at the margins but not in any significant numbers until the team becomes successful again.

The people behind Holdsworth are businessmen simply won't be building the success of the business on the naive idea of simply trying to attracting a few hundred/ thousand fans back on match day.  Their business plan - and thus intended profit is not based on that premise and therefore the ST's involvement may well be tolerated and given lip service but I very much doubt much more than that.

The ST will only come into its own when the club is shorn of assets and investors can no longer see it viable to make a profit from investing in it for the while.

28BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 13:24

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:You can join the Bolton Wanderers Supporters Trust for an initial cost of a £10 membership.

The payment guarantees you absolutely nothing apart from voting into office the people to represent the ST.

The ST's aim is to have a say in the running of the club.

I personally doubt that anyone putting millions of their money into a business in the aim to make a profit from it would seriously listen to anybody else's opinion of what they should do with their money, particularly if that person has an emotional attachment rather than a hard headed business view.  

I therefore think the concept of them having a say in somebody else's business is fundamentally flawed.

Hundreds of people however have been paying £10 membership fee to the ST today on God knows whatever rationale they may have.

They are parting with their money on a premise that is far from certain to be delivered, in order to vote in people they probably have no idea about to represent them and giving their money to an organisation that has not told anyone what they would spend it on.

It would seem the old saying that 'a fool and their money are easily parted' is alive and currently in action in the Bolton area today and for a while thereafter.
Sluffy i get that you're against the ST but calling fans who want to see what they can achieve fools is just not on. 
 If you want to call me a fool, carry on as i will be putting up my £10 and not just sitting back and moaning about the ST without actually doing anything about it.

Your hatred of one of the steering group is clouding your judgement on all this and you are coming across as sanctimonius

Mate, I hate no one, life's to short but there are people I simply don't trust and for good reason.

I'm sorry if you don't like my take on the ST, it is nothing personal to you nor anybody else, it is simply a rationale view of the ST's aim and prospect of achieving it.

If you put away your emotional view of me and the ST for one moment and examine what I've said in my post above, then what exactly can you disagree with?

Are the ST certain to achieve a place on the new board or even a say in how to run the business?  - No.

Do you know who is standing to be elected in the ST? - No.

Do you know what the ST intends to spend the money donated to it by well meaning fans of the club? - No.


If Mrs Norpig told you that she had given out £10's to complete stranger off the street, who said they were going to get your favourite group to do a gig in your local pub - would you think that was a sensible thing for her to do?

Yes, the ST 'might' achieve a voice to be heard on the new board and similarly yes, your favourite band might do a one night stand at your local - but I think the chances of either are slim - don't you?

If you think I'm being sanctimonious for simply thinking with my head than with my heart, then yes, I probably then am, I'm certainly not ashamed of looking first before leaping.

If you want to give your £10 to somebody you don't know, have no idea what they might spend it on and with no guarantee what so ever of having any voice on the new board - then go right ahead, as it is your money to spend how you like.
Sluffy the issue i have with you is that you have written off the ST before they have even been properly formed. You're right we don't know exactly what is going to happen and if they will have any real say in how the club is run but if no one tries then how we will ever know?

If it helps in only a small way then that's still a million times better than what happens now - the old regime didn't give a monkeys and communication was dreadful.

I don't want the ST to take over the club i just want them to have a meaningful input in to how the club goes forward from here. Any new owner would be shooting themselves in the foot to ignore what the fans want and what their opinions are.

Don't forget around 6000 fans have already signed up, maybe they won't all be prepared to put their money in now but i think it's a risk worth taking

29BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 13:41

Guest


Guest
The problem as I see it is that the creation of the Truss may actually make it easier for the club to ignore and manipulate the fans, perverse as it sounds.

As I've said before on here, the Truss very much reminds me of one of those Works Council / Shop Floor Input Group thingies that you get in businesses with no union representation.

I'm not proud of this but I've used this type of group loads in the past to create the sense that the people involved are being listened to but in reality, it's nothing more than a tool designed to fool the gobby oiks who spend all day knocking on your door with their trivial problems, into thinking that you're taking them and their pointless bollocks seriously.

When in reality, you couldn't give a shit if they want Quavers in the vending machine rather than Skips.

Nor do you give a toss if they want a new kettle for the canteen.

But these "concerns" are useful when it comes to pay rise time.

Instead of the 5% they're asking for, you give them 1.5% but with the understanding that you'll buy a new kettle and make sure that the vending machine's overflowing with Quavers from now on.

So they go away thinking that they've pretty much got one over on you and you've been forced into meeting the majority of their demands and they think they're ace and dead clever.

When in reality, you've got away with giving them the absolute minimum pay rise and all it's cost you is £9.99 for an ASDA Value kettle and a phone call to the vending machine company to ask for the Quavers.

But they're convinced they've "won"......

These bodies are actually dangerous because they make it easier for the nasty people in charge to enforce their will, whilst all the time pissing up the backs of the Truss and laughing at how child-like they are in their naivety and simple-mindedness.

30BWFCST open business Empty Re: BWFCST open business on Tue Mar 01 2016, 13:44

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
If 5,000 people pay £10 for their membership, then that is £50,000 per year going into the ST's coffers.

What are they actually going to spend it on?

Does anybody know?

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