Trump bombs Syria - has he started World War III?

Obama said using chemical warfare was a red line that would invoke American intervention a couple of years back but when the Syrian government did, he stepped back from the brink.

Since them Russia and Iran (via their Hezbollah proxies) have got involved in the fighting - and turned the tide in that country - and perhaps more importantly politically - the balance of power in the whole region.

Now that the Americans have this time acted on a chemical attack what will be the wider consequences and ramifications?

Also did he really need to get involved - is he really making some sort of statement to the world rather just a response to what happened?

What message will the likes of Russia and China (who are actively land grabbing in the Far East by building islands in the seas and claiming sovereignty over the minerals and fish that lie around them) take out of this action?

Or is America starting to police the world for good, again?

A good move or bad move by Trump do you think?

Just typical Trump. He wants to seem like he cares and that he is a strong leader of a powerful state but it achieves precisely nothing apart from killing some more Syrians. In a way it is just another example of virtue signalling. Fortunately as Trump has already indicated it is a one-off the Russians will let it go.

Western policy over Syria has been chaotic for years. The futility of trying to arm alleged pro-western groups was exposed over a year ago when it was revealed that America had spent over $500m and had literally nothing to show for it because most of these rebels had promptly joined extreme Islamist groups and taken their new American weapons with them. Even if Assad were overthrown what then? Another Iraq?

Trump's approval rating is currently hovering around the 34% mark.

When compared to his predecessors at this stage of their tenure, it's the lowest of any US president since formal records began.

And as anyone who has ever looked at his Twitter feed can tell you, the guy is obsessed with ratings and is clearly desperate to be loved and will do just about anything to try and get his numbers up.

So what does he do?

He fires a few missiles in an attempt to look "bigly strong" in a desperate attempt to improve his own personal standing in the polls.

It really is as shallow and vacuous as that. 

And the vast swathes of illiterate morons who voted for him and who get their news from Fox, Breitbart and Infowars will all lap it up.

But it won't change anything.

Syria is a mess and, as Xmiles has already pointed out, it's not a simple matter of "Good Guys Vs Bad Guys" because pretty much everybody involved in the fighting can be classed as a "Bad Guy" from our perspective.

There is no simple solution and there's a very strong argument to be had for not getting involved at all.

That may sound harsh but we stuck our noses into Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan and look how that turned out...

The thing that interests me is that the narrative provided to justify this action is highly questionable as the ex British Consul to Syria pointed out on TV this morning. 
Basically there is no evidence to back up the notion that Assad ordered the chemical attack so is it possible that the Russian narrative (conventional bomb hit rebel chemical store) is true? 
After all, the Americans provided loads of "evidence" that Iraq had WMD - later shown to be nonsense.
Having watched Bitter Lake etc I am coming to the conclusion that American and British foreign policy as regards the Middle East is an ongoing cover up for the mistakes of the past which they are not ready to discuss especially as so many British soldiers have died trying to defend what is increasingly looking like a big lie to protect western oil interests and the special deal with Saudi Arabia. 

I know Adam Curtis tends to sensationalise but the footage is real and compelling.

wanderlust wrote:Having watched Bitter Lake etc I am coming to the conclusion that American and British foreign policy as regards the Middle East is an ongoing cover up for the mistakes of the past which they are not ready to discuss especially as so many British soldiers have died trying to defend what is increasingly looking like a big lie to protect western oil interests and the special deal with Saudi Arabia. 

I know Adam Curtis tends to sensationalise but the footage is real and compelling.

Have you only just discovered Bitter Lake - you've mentioned it on three separate threads in the last few hours or so?

I recommended it and posted a link to it when it was first shown on the BBC about two years ago - and it has enlightened my thinking on many of the issues that flow out from this documentary made by Curtis.

Our former poster 1874 even thanked me for bringing it to his attention.

I recommend that anyone who has yet to see it should do - as it gives you a real understanding of what is going on in the middle east and Afghanistan without the politicised spin western governments (including our own) put on things.

The documentary itself may not be absolutely true - what is the truth anyway? - but it gives a narrative that that many had not heard before and seems to give reasons to some of the riddles as to why things have gone so badly wrong in these countries when the west have actively intervened (dating back to world war I and before really).

A must see film/documentary imo.

Sluffys Dad is also bigger than yours Lusty 

While we're on the whole "Corporate 'Murica has fucked us over" thing, can I take two seconds to recommend two very interesting books:

"Dude, Where's My Country?" by Michael Moore and "Lies and The Lying Liars Who Tell Them" by Al Franken.

I read them both years ago and they give you a real insight corporate America and how successive (mainly Republican) administrations have covered up all sorts of dodgy shit regarding "the fight against terror" and corporate Murica's involvement in it all.

Bread2.0 wrote:"Dude, Where's My Country?" by Michael Moore .

Is it anything like the film "Dude, Where's My Car?". Always enjoyed the silliness of that one.

Yes.

It's exactly like that.

Dubbya gets stoned and forgets that he's invaded Iraq.

And much hilarity then ensues.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Having watched Bitter Lake etc I am coming to the conclusion that American and British foreign policy as regards the Middle East is an ongoing cover up for the mistakes of the past which they are not ready to discuss especially as so many British soldiers have died trying to defend what is increasingly looking like a big lie to protect western oil interests and the special deal with Saudi Arabia. 

I know Adam Curtis tends to sensationalise but the footage is real and compelling.

Have you only just discovered Bitter Lake - you've mentioned it on three separate threads in the last few hours or so?

No. I just think it's relevant to a lot of what's currently happening and that it may be useful for anyone who takes the narrative we are fed at face value. I have a particular interest as I was working in the Middle East in the 70s and recognise some of the references.

Hypernormalisation has a similar theme and is also a "must see" in this context. 

Both films make me feel sorry for all the people that have died or been injured as a result of our foreign policy actions and I am particularly saddened at the role we British played in facilitating the spread of radical Islam and the subsequent demonisation of an entire religion albeit as a junior partner to the Americans.

You've just got to hope that whatever the FBI have got on him and his band of merry fucking idiots, they get a wriggle on and go public with their findings PDQ.

Because the joke's getting very old now and he needs to go.

The checks and balances which exist to stop a president acting like a dictator are all well and good when it comes to legislating policy but they don't stop him acting unilaterally on shit like this and that's where he's dangerous.

And shit like this doesn't help, either:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/08/donald-trump-steve-bannon-jared-kushner-power-struggle

Bread2.0 wrote:And shit like this doesn't help, either:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/08/donald-trump-steve-bannon-jared-kushner-power-struggle

....or this.

A bit worrying as Russia is more likely to nuke us first.

The Yanks are getting serious about the investigation into whether or not the Russians hacked the US elections to get Trump elected. 

Russian arrested in Spain faces extradition to the States.

Boris fails at the first hurdle.

And to think this guy is leading the charge to build new business relationships.

How much more of this can we take. We're dealing with idiots.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39572902

I naively assumed that Trump's Republican entourage would be made up of wise choices who would rein him in and provide some counter-balance to his gross points of view.. I was wrong. 

What will it take for your average Trump supporter to wake up and see these boneheads for what they are?

boltonbonce wrote:How much more of this can we take. We're dealing with idiots.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39572902

 Spicer is turning into Mike from the programme Veep which is very funny, this is real though which is even more worrying