13 dead many injured - simply because some nutcase believed more about some thousand year old religious doctrine instead of the life's of fellow human beings including at least two little kids.
RIP Barcelona's dead.
RIP Barcelona's dead.
okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
Me and most of the people I know don't think that way at all.Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
wanderlust wrote:Me and most of the people I know don't think that way at all.Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
We don't "automatically think/believe that people from other cultures are doing it wrong".
I've travelled extensively and have always thought that people from other cultures do things differently (not wrong) and usually their cultural heritage reflects the environment their culture developed in e.g. people raised in the desert would naturally wear cool clothing that covered their heads and bodies from the sun or that people from the Arctic would wear animal skins and eat fish. In nomadic tribes, polygamy made sense for survival once upon a time. Ancient cultural things in modern religious books.
Religion is a reflection of ancient society and cultural values, expressing a human need to believe there is something more than our experience of existence in a human way, and in books written and subsequently interpreted by humans - so our own construct. and therefore fallible.
What needs to change is the human need in a modern technological communications era created by our generation, to have absolute certainty.
We are becoming drawn to the extremes as though everything has to be absolutely right or absolutely wrong and that is the problem, because as long as we lose sight of the idea that something may be right or may be wrong we continue to lose sight of the ability to not mind not being right - the basis of mutual respect and tolerance of difference. Losing that creates extremism.
Cargo cults existed in the stone age settlements of the Melanesian Islands until the 1970s and when they first came into contact with French rubber planters who had aeroplanes, metal tools and mirrors etc they simply put it down to the French having a better way of communicating with the ancestors from whom all good things came.Sluffy wrote:wanderlust wrote:Me and most of the people I know don't think that way at all.Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
We don't "automatically think/believe that people from other cultures are doing it wrong".
I've travelled extensively and have always thought that people from other cultures do things differently (not wrong) and usually their cultural heritage reflects the environment their culture developed in e.g. people raised in the desert would naturally wear cool clothing that covered their heads and bodies from the sun or that people from the Arctic would wear animal skins and eat fish. In nomadic tribes, polygamy made sense for survival once upon a time. Ancient cultural things in modern religious books.
Religion is a reflection of ancient society and cultural values, expressing a human need to believe there is something more than our experience of existence in a human way, and in books written and subsequently interpreted by humans - so our own construct. and therefore fallible.
What needs to change is the human need in a modern technological communications era created by our generation, to have absolute certainty.
We are becoming drawn to the extremes as though everything has to be absolutely right or absolutely wrong and that is the problem, because as long as we lose sight of the idea that something may be right or may be wrong we continue to lose sight of the ability to not mind not being right - the basis of mutual respect and tolerance of difference. Losing that creates extremism.
It would take me too long to go into detail to repudiate your above post and I'm not prepared to put in the effort or the time.
I will however try to give you a gist of the flaw in your thinking.
Basically you are judging and reasoning from your own 'educated' and 'liberal' mind set (one we are fortunate enough to have in a free, interracial, western democracy.
If however you applied a mind set from someone who has been brought up to believe implicitly in a radicalised and extremist religious doctrine, it is far harder (not impossible) to accept that other people and cultures are doing things 'differently'. They are brought up to believe strongly that they are quite simply 'wrong'.
Until those hard core mind sets and religious extremist doctrines can be overcome, then unfortunately we will always have a mismatch in the worlds tolerance of each other.
wanderlust wrote:Cargo cults existed in the stone age settlements of the Melanesian Islands until the 1970s and when they first came into contact with French rubber planters who had aeroplanes, metal tools and mirrors etc they simply put it down to the French having a better way of communicating with the ancestors from whom all good things came.Sluffy wrote:wanderlust wrote:Me and most of the people I know don't think that way at all.Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
We don't "automatically think/believe that people from other cultures are doing it wrong".
I've travelled extensively and have always thought that people from other cultures do things differently (not wrong) and usually their cultural heritage reflects the environment their culture developed in e.g. people raised in the desert would naturally wear cool clothing that covered their heads and bodies from the sun or that people from the Arctic would wear animal skins and eat fish. In nomadic tribes, polygamy made sense for survival once upon a time. Ancient cultural things in modern religious books.
Religion is a reflection of ancient society and cultural values, expressing a human need to believe there is something more than our experience of existence in a human way, and in books written and subsequently interpreted by humans - so our own construct. and therefore fallible.
What needs to change is the human need in a modern technological communications era created by our generation, to have absolute certainty.
We are becoming drawn to the extremes as though everything has to be absolutely right or absolutely wrong and that is the problem, because as long as we lose sight of the idea that something may be right or may be wrong we continue to lose sight of the ability to not mind not being right - the basis of mutual respect and tolerance of difference. Losing that creates extremism.
It would take me too long to go into detail to repudiate your above post and I'm not prepared to put in the effort or the time.
I will however try to give you a gist of the flaw in your thinking.
Basically you are judging and reasoning from your own 'educated' and 'liberal' mind set (one we are fortunate enough to have in a free, interracial, western democracy.
If however you applied a mind set from someone who has been brought up to believe implicitly in a radicalised and extremist religious doctrine, it is far harder (not impossible) to accept that other people and cultures are doing things 'differently'. They are brought up to believe strongly that they are quite simply 'wrong'.
Until those hard core mind sets and religious extremist doctrines can be overcome, then unfortunately we will always have a mismatch in the worlds tolerance of each other.
Rather than think of the foreign invaders as being "wrong" they thought of them as enlightened, almost God-like as the John Frum subcult demonstrated.
Your oversimplification of cultural interpretation fits your theory but doesn't bear scrutiny especially when applied in a sweeping generalisation as you have done.
No son, the cargo cults are nothing like fundamental Islam which is the point I was making and exactly why your sweeping generalisation is a load of bollocks.Sluffy wrote:wanderlust wrote:Cargo cults existed in the stone age settlements of the Melanesian Islands until the 1970s and when they first came into contact with French rubber planters who had aeroplanes, metal tools and mirrors etc they simply put it down to the French having a better way of communicating with the ancestors from whom all good things came.Sluffy wrote:wanderlust wrote:Me and most of the people I know don't think that way at all.Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
We don't "automatically think/believe that people from other cultures are doing it wrong".
I've travelled extensively and have always thought that people from other cultures do things differently (not wrong) and usually their cultural heritage reflects the environment their culture developed in e.g. people raised in the desert would naturally wear cool clothing that covered their heads and bodies from the sun or that people from the Arctic would wear animal skins and eat fish. In nomadic tribes, polygamy made sense for survival once upon a time. Ancient cultural things in modern religious books.
Religion is a reflection of ancient society and cultural values, expressing a human need to believe there is something more than our experience of existence in a human way, and in books written and subsequently interpreted by humans - so our own construct. and therefore fallible.
What needs to change is the human need in a modern technological communications era created by our generation, to have absolute certainty.
We are becoming drawn to the extremes as though everything has to be absolutely right or absolutely wrong and that is the problem, because as long as we lose sight of the idea that something may be right or may be wrong we continue to lose sight of the ability to not mind not being right - the basis of mutual respect and tolerance of difference. Losing that creates extremism.
It would take me too long to go into detail to repudiate your above post and I'm not prepared to put in the effort or the time.
I will however try to give you a gist of the flaw in your thinking.
Basically you are judging and reasoning from your own 'educated' and 'liberal' mind set (one we are fortunate enough to have in a free, interracial, western democracy.
If however you applied a mind set from someone who has been brought up to believe implicitly in a radicalised and extremist religious doctrine, it is far harder (not impossible) to accept that other people and cultures are doing things 'differently'. They are brought up to believe strongly that they are quite simply 'wrong'.
Until those hard core mind sets and religious extremist doctrines can be overcome, then unfortunately we will always have a mismatch in the worlds tolerance of each other.
Rather than think of the foreign invaders as being "wrong" they thought of them as enlightened, almost God-like as the John Frum subcult demonstrated.
Your oversimplification of cultural interpretation fits your theory but doesn't bear scrutiny especially when applied in a sweeping generalisation as you have done.
Yes because John Frum is exactly like extreme Islamism.
You just carry on believing that and I'll save my breath in attempting to enlighten you any further.
wanderlust wrote:Sluffy wrote:Yes because John Frum is exactly like extreme Islamism.
You just carry on believing that and I'll save my breath in attempting to enlighten you any further.
No son, the cargo cults are nothing like fundamental Islam which is the point I was making and exactly why your sweeping generalisation is a load of bollocks.
Sluffy wrote:okocha wrote:I'd begun to think that to be able to commit such evil, you'd have to be insane or completely stoned.
However, some recent BBC news footage showed very young school pupils being indoctrinated, having their minds twisted in order to become the next generation of IS soldiers. I suppose this is an example of being drug-addled, but by a different name and method.
It is all about knowledge and education.
If you are brought up in a home and culture that lives to a certain way of life - then you simply don't know any different and go on to raise your own children in the same way.
When you do meet people from a different culture who do things differently, you automatically think (believe) they are doing it wrong.
Some people (most I guess) can learnt to tolerate or adapt to new ways they come into contact with but a number just can't or won't.
Religion really is an early form of controlling people and getting them to live the same way as each other. Whilst the west shook off this religious control century's ago the Islamic country's still are dominated by religion still controlling them (the leadership, their laws, their way of thinking, etc).
Until this control comes to an end there will always be people who sees things as 'us and them' from both sides of the cultural divide.
The Crusades (11th, 12th and a bit of the 13th century) were used by various popes and politicians to sanction the settling of various scores, gain personal wealth and to achieve a range of political objectives only some of which involved failed attempts to "recapture the Holy Land" as a justification for rampaging and pillaging armies.xmiles wrote:Just to clarify the history: one point people tend to forget is that the Crusades were a series of attempts to recover formerly Christian territory from the Muslim occupiers. Until the Arabs converted to Islam and invaded the former Roman empire the whole of Palestine was Christian.
There were crusades in Spain and Portugal but nobody gets worked up about them because the Christians won there unlike in the Middle East.
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