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Derby 3-0 Bolton

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Growler
Cajunboy
boltonbonce
finlaymcdanger
Sluffy
MartinBWFC
wessy
DEANO82
rammywhite
Bollotom2014
Natasha Whittam
Boggersbelief
Norpig
karlypants
wanderlust
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81Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:35 am

Guest


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Sluffy wrote:

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Oh no, far too complex for us to understand that ..dunno...

Generally speaking a 3 man defence is a mixture of zonal and man marking as the ‘sweeper’ (presumably Wheater in this case) acts as a spare and should mark zonally while the other 2 man mark.

Clearly didn’t work as intended.

82Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:03 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Sluffy wrote:It might have something to do with reverting back to three at the back - I said before the game I didn't think this game was the right match to play it and it seems Parkinson regretted it himself by reverting to four at the back at half time - of course it was too late by then already being two nil down.

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

If you analyse their first goal (after just 6 minutes!) Burke does seemed to have tracked the goal scorer and failed to get a challenge in, but if you care to notice immediately the goal is scored and the Derby players run off to celebrate, you will se a number of Wanderers players still rooted to the spot one of which is Wheater and if you play the clip back again and pay particular attention to him you will see that he wasn't marking anyone and missed (badly) in his attempt to cut out the cross which led to the goal.

It seems therefore you had one centre back (Wheater) presumably playing zonal marking and another centre back (Burke) presumably playing man marking.  Which kind of suggests that one of them wasn't on the same page as the other when it came to how to keep things tight at the back.

To be honest we didn't really expect to get a result at Derby and I guess the conspiracists amongst us might even think we rested players like Ameobi, Flanagan and Buckley (are you reading this Bonce!) for a more realistic chance of a result this coming Tuesday.

Disappointing run of recent games admittedly but we are not dead and buried yet - even though some would have us believe we are already relegated.

Where there is life there is hope they say and we still have it within our own grasp to secure our survival.

Keep the faith.


All that from watching Soccer Saturday?

Einstein worked out how the entire universe works from just his desk.

I'd wager that there were plenty at the match who would have seen the whole game yet could not tell you if our three central defenders played zonal or man marking at corners.

Probably many of them aren't even bothered what it was - but these are the things that are key on how effective, or not, football teams defences are.

A group of players, playing their own game in defence simply doesn't work at professional level, and that was the point I was simply trying to make, that chopping and changing from a flat back four to three at the back - man marking to zonal marking - can and no doubt does lead to errors and goals against - and that's why drilling players and ironing these things out on the training ground is not a five minute thing - and probably why it cost us the early goal yesterday.





83Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:29 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
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T.R.O.Y wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

When playing three at the back the defenders usually mark zonally but more often mark the players directly in a normal back four rather than those who enter their 'zonal space' in three at the back - if you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Oh no, far too complex for us to understand that ..dunno...

Generally speaking a 3 man defence is a mixture of zonal and man marking as the ‘sweeper’ (presumably Wheater in this case) acts as a spare and should mark zonally while the other 2 man mark.

Clearly didn’t work as intended.

I wasn't being flippant as I'm sure you probably knew, I just thought I probably could have worded what I was attempting say more clearly but could not seem to find the words at the time.  

As for having a spare or 'sweeper' defender in a crowded penalty area - count the number of players in the penalty box at the time - 15 or more say - is an incredible amount of bodies to physically manoeuvre around to pick up any potential danger and virtually impossible to do effectively.  Spare defenders /sweepers normally operate in open play when they can see the whole pitch in front of them and thus spot the potential threats as they develop and thus can move to intercept them - unimpeded by a load of people in the way.

84Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:49 pm

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Guest

No spare defenders at set pieces are responsible for attacking the ball at corners, don’t know what point you’re trying to make about busy penalty areas. I’m just telling you why there’s a mixture of man marking and zonal marking in a back 3.



Last edited by T.R.O.Y on Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

85Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:19 pm

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y wrote:No spare defenders at set pieces are responsible for attacking the ball at corners, don’t know what point you’re trying to make about busy penalty areas. I’m just telling you why there’s a mixture of man marking and xo al marking in a back 3.

Because it is easy to attack and get to the ball if there is no one else in the way but a completely different story when a dozen or so other people are trying to get to it also (or stop others doing so).

As for the goal, Wheater was relatively miles away from the ball, I doubt he would have been so far away if there had only been him alone in the penalty area. I would hope so anyway.

86Derby 3-0 Bolton - Page 5 Empty Re: Derby 3-0 Bolton Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:38 pm

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Einstein's desk was less wooden than our defence TBH.
Parky started a back 3 to try to get the wingbacks forward more, confident that Wheater, Beevers and Burke could hold the fort. They were just not up to it and left too much space behind them, getting turned and done for pace too often. 
That's what happens when you make half of a plan.

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