Ken Anderson - update.

Ten Bob are you a relative of the Andersons by any chance? 

Norpig wrote:Ten Bob are you a relative of the Andersons by any chance? 

Whether he is or he isn't he's well informed in terms of finance- so credit where credit is due.

I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

Norpig wrote:I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

I haven't a clue  who he is.  I have led a very sheltered life!!

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

rammywhite wrote:As an ex-auditor, I think that the reticence of the auditors to sign off the Accounts as a true and fair view was about their concern about whether the business was a going concern or not. To say that they couldn't confirm this would have probably have triggered the immediate repayments of any loans from commercial lenders ( such as the high street banks) and effectively closes the door on any future borrowing.. No business in its right mind wants a qualified audit report so he can't be blamed for attempting to delay signing off until he'd convinced Cowgill Holloway ( the current auditor, I believe) hat the business was a going concern.
We'll get that sort of performance every year end whilst the current scenario is in place.

Hang on, Rammy, isn't that exactly what the auditors did? i.e. issued a qualified audit report on the basis that they could not be satisfied that Burnden Leisure was 'a going concern', that is to say that there was not sufficient evidence to show that it would still be in business in twelve months after the date of the audit report, 14 March 2018.

You can find the 2017 accounts and auditors report (page 14/15) here:

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The fact that it has survived formal insolvency so far is largely the result of the skills of Ken Anderson and his team. I don't know what recent experience you may have of insolvency practitioners but don't you think that you'd be hard-pressed to find one that could get Cardiff City to part with £6million plus for Gary Madine and get Blumarble to hold off for nearly two and a half years before settling for a fraction of their interest charges?

There is no doubt that Anderson has put the squeeze on suppliers and creditors and reduced costs - that is not in question. Unfortunately that is only one aspect of business and on it's own is nowhere near enough what is required to run any business. 
The issue is that we continue to trade at a loss which in anyone's book means that further investment is required and the valuation of the club is lowered as a result. 
Furthermore there is no concrete evidence to suggest that Anderson has made a net investment in the club (whether that is by design or necessity and I doubt even the most pro-Anderson supporter would imagine that he has the ability (or will) to provide the required amount out of his own resources. 

Simply put, if Anderson can't get investors on board or provide the money himself whilst not being able to run the business at a profit, he has to go if the club is to survive.

rammywhite wrote:

Norpig wrote:I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

I haven't a clue  who he is.  I have led a very sheltered life!!

 He's Ken's finance man, good at looking down backs of sofa's and turning a blind eye to Kens dodgy deals  

I have to say that Anderson's latest press release (above) is a tale of two pantomimes.

Norpig wrote:I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

Never met him either but I have met one or two whose names you might recognise:e.g. Nat Lofthouse, Eddie Hopkinson,Tommy Banks, Roy Hartle, Franny Lee, Syd Farrimond, Dennis Stevens, Harry Webster, Wyn Davies, Jimmy Armfield, Phil Brown, Alan Thompson, George Warburton, Brett Warburton, Alan Duckworth, Sam Allardyce, Simon Marland, Phil Gartside and quite a few others over the years

Have you met Rob Earnshaw?

Natasha Whittam wrote:Have you met Rob Earnshaw?

Probably not, but I hear he's on good terms with David Nugent.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Norpig wrote:I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

Never met him either but I have met one or two whose names you might recognise:e.g. Nat Lofthouse, Eddie Hopkinson,Tommy Banks, Roy Hartle, Franny Lee, Syd Farrimond, Dennis Stevens, Harry Webster, Wyn Davies, Jimmy Armfield, Phil Brown, Alan Thompson, George Warburton, Brett Warburton, Alan Duckworth, Sam Allardyce, Simon Marland, Phil Gartside and quite a few others over the years

A definite club insider then, welcome aboard Ken you bastard

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Norpig wrote:I was only teasing Rammy but i think i've figured it out now, Ten Bob is really Paul Aldridge 

Never met him either but I have met one or two whose names you might recognise:e.g. Nat Lofthouse, Eddie Hopkinson,Tommy Banks, Roy Hartle, Franny Lee, Syd Farrimond, Dennis Stevens, Harry Webster, Wyn Davies, Jimmy Armfield, Phil Brown, Alan Thompson, George Warburton, Brett Warburton, Alan Duckworth, Sam Allardyce, Simon Marland, Phil Gartside and quite a few others over the years

I can only claim their autograph's(apart from Brett W). Harry Webster is a name to conjure with. Great names all of them though.
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I'm wondering if clause No1 is included in modern day contracts.

wanderlust wrote:Not sure that Anderson has any more cards to play now that ED is no longer a bailout option and there can't be many more club assets that he hasn't pawned already. 
Perhaps his only option is to accept a realistic valuation for the club instead of "finding fault" with investors who are unwilling to give him a big payoff?

Which assets has he pawned? Most were pawned by Trevor Birch not Anderson

Anderson was quoted as saying the price was £30 million to be sold as 'DEBT FREE' £5 million payoff doesn't seem that bad to me.

Nigelbwfc wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Not sure that Anderson has any more cards to play now that ED is no longer a bailout option and there can't be many more club assets that he hasn't pawned already. 
Perhaps his only option is to accept a realistic valuation for the club instead of "finding fault" with investors who are unwilling to give him a big payoff?

Which assets has he pawned? Most were pawned by Trevor Birch not Anderson

Anderson was quoted as saying the price was £30 million to be sold as 'DEBT FREE' £5 million payoff doesn't seem that bad to me.

If by 'pawned' you mean mortgaged, the assets were mostly pawned under the previous regime but one. Not that that implies any criticism of them, affordable  borrowing is a perfectly sensible business practice. Trouble is that football isn't, for the most part, a sensible business and some 'supporters' aren't  very sensible either.

If KA makes more than Dean Holdsworth for doing FA I suppose you might say he earned it but £5million?  No.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Nigelbwfc wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Not sure that Anderson has any more cards to play now that ED is no longer a bailout option and there can't be many more club assets that he hasn't pawned already. 
Perhaps his only option is to accept a realistic valuation for the club instead of "finding fault" with investors who are unwilling to give him a big payoff?

Which assets has he pawned? Most were pawned by Trevor Birch not Anderson

Anderson was quoted as saying the price was £30 million to be sold as 'DEBT FREE' £5 million payoff doesn't seem that bad to me.

If by 'pawned' you mean mortgaged, the assets were mostly pawned under the previous regime but one. Not that that implies any criticism of them, affordable  borrowing is a perfectly sensible business practice. Trouble is that football isn't, for the most part, a sensible business and some 'supporters' aren't  very sensible either.

If KA makes more than Dean Holdsworth for doing FA I suppose you might say he earned it but £5million?  No.

Think Anderson has done a pretty good job in difficult circumstances. He ain't a philanthropist and never set out to be.. 

I doubt very much potential investors are being put of by a £5 million asking price, more likely the £25 million debt and the constant cash flow problems. That's my point.

Anderson has to earn something out of it, else he wouldn't be in business. £5 million would be negotiable, I assume, so if he comes out with half that who can argue?

Nigelbwfc wrote:

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Nigelbwfc wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Not sure that Anderson has any more cards to play now that ED is no longer a bailout option and there can't be many more club assets that he hasn't pawned already. 
Perhaps his only option is to accept a realistic valuation for the club instead of "finding fault" with investors who are unwilling to give him a big payoff?

Which assets has he pawned? Most were pawned by Trevor Birch not Anderson

Anderson was quoted as saying the price was £30 million to be sold as 'DEBT FREE' £5 million payoff doesn't seem that bad to me.

If by 'pawned' you mean mortgaged, the assets were mostly pawned under the previous regime but one. Not that that implies any criticism of them, affordable  borrowing is a perfectly sensible business practice. Trouble is that football isn't, for the most part, a sensible business and some 'supporters' aren't  very sensible either.

If KA makes more than Dean Holdsworth for doing FA I suppose you might say he earned it but £5million?  No.

Think Anderson has done a pretty good job in difficult circumstances. He ain't a philanthropist and never set out to be.. 

I doubt very much potential investors are being put of by a £5 million asking price, more likely the £25 million debt and the constant cash flow problems. That's my point.

Anderson has to earn something out of it, else he wouldn't be in business. £5 million would be negotiable, I assume, so if he comes out with half that who can argue?

I'd be happy if he walked away with £50 million let alone just five, as that would mean he's done something really special to turn the club around so much that someone values it so highly - and has the money to want to buy it.

In reality though who wants a club with a debt of something like £25 million on the books, no value to speak of in the players, a moderate crowd of what 15,000 at best, situated next door to two super clubs who hoover up supporters and young playing prospects?  What's that, an outlay of say £60 million just to buy the club and a few decent players, plus what £10 million more in wages per year - and that's probably just to get the club competing at top half/ possibly play-off level.

But no I must be wrong because in fact we've had a queue of billionaires lining up to take on this ridiculous financial challenge just to get us to the Premier League but according to Wanderlust, Ken just keeps knocking them back because he prefers instead to pawn assets he never had access to and would rather lead the club to bankruptcy instead!

The simple truth is that we are simply not an attractive buy - and if by any chance we do manage to find a new owner what are the odds that they are more like the much derided Anderson in terms of wealth and investment than the £200 million plus philanthropist Eddie Davies.

I know which one is the more likely.

Sluffy wrote:

Nigelbwfc wrote:

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Nigelbwfc wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Not sure that Anderson has any more cards to play now that ED is no longer a bailout option and there can't be many more club assets that he hasn't pawned already. 
Perhaps his only option is to accept a realistic valuation for the club instead of "finding fault" with investors who are unwilling to give him a big payoff?

Which assets has he pawned? Most were pawned by Trevor Birch not Anderson

Anderson was quoted as saying the price was £30 million to be sold as 'DEBT FREE' £5 million payoff doesn't seem that bad to me.

If by 'pawned' you mean mortgaged, the assets were mostly pawned under the previous regime but one. Not that that implies any criticism of them, affordable  borrowing is a perfectly sensible business practice. Trouble is that football isn't, for the most part, a sensible business and some 'supporters' aren't  very sensible either.

If KA makes more than Dean Holdsworth for doing FA I suppose you might say he earned it but £5million?  No.

Think Anderson has done a pretty good job in difficult circumstances. He ain't a philanthropist and never set out to be.. 

I doubt very much potential investors are being put of by a £5 million asking price, more likely the £25 million debt and the constant cash flow problems. That's my point.

Anderson has to earn something out of it, else he wouldn't be in business. £5 million would be negotiable, I assume, so if he comes out with half that who can argue?

I'd be happy if he walked away with £50 million let alone just five, as that would mean he's done something special to turn the club around so much that someone values it so highly - and has the money to want to buy it.

In reality though who wants a club with a debt of something like £25 million on the books, no value to speak of in the players, a moderate crowd of what 15,000 at best, situated next door to two super clubs who hoover up supporters and young playing prospects?  What's that, an outlay of say £60 million just to buy the club and a few decent players, plus what £10 million more in wages per year - and that's probably just to get the club competing at top half/ possibly play-off level.

But no I must be wrong because in fact we've had a queue of billionaires lining up to take on this ridiculous financial challenge just to get us to the Premier League but according to Wanderlust, Ken just keeps knocking them back because he prefers instead to pawn assets he never had access to and would rather lead the club to bankruptcy instead!

The simple truth is that we are simply not an attractive buy - and if by any chance we do manage to find a new owner what are the odds that they are more like the much derided Anderson in terms of wealth and investment than the £200 million plus philanthropist Eddie Davies.

I know which one is the more likely.

To be fair though some of the smaller clubs in London can say that and Bury have just been sold, so it can't all be doom and gloom.

Regarding wanderlust comments, some folk never tire of this idea that the club is being run into the ground and all owners are up to no good. It happened under George and Derek Warburton, under Phil Garyside and now Ken.

6 years ago Bolton were getting over £40 million a year from Sky in TV revenue.To go from that position to having to borrow off the PFA to pay the wages is awful management.Whether that's mostly down to Eddie or Ken take your pick.

You two are the only ones who care. Rest of us are just here for the football.

Nigelbwfc wrote:

Sluffy wrote:I'd be happy if he walked away with £50 million let alone just five, as that would mean he's done something special to turn the club around so much that someone values it so highly - and has the money to want to buy it.

In reality though who wants a club with a debt of something like £25 million on the books, no value to speak of in the players, a moderate crowd of what 15,000 at best, situated next door to two super clubs who hoover up supporters and young playing prospects?  What's that, an outlay of say £60 million just to buy the club and a few decent players, plus what £10 million more in wages per year - and that's probably just to get the club competing at top half/ possibly play-off level.

But no I must be wrong because in fact we've had a queue of billionaires lining up to take on this ridiculous financial challenge just to get us to the Premier League but according to Wanderlust, Ken just keeps knocking them back because he prefers instead to pawn assets he never had access to and would rather lead the club to bankruptcy instead!

The simple truth is that we are simply not an attractive buy - and if by any chance we do manage to find a new owner what are the odds that they are more like the much derided Anderson in terms of wealth and investment than the £200 million plus philanthropist Eddie Davies.

I know which one is the more likely.

To be fair though some of the smaller clubs in London can say that and Bury have just been sold, so it can't all be doom and gloom.

Regarding wanderlust comments, some folk never tire of this idea that the club is being run into the ground and all owners are up to no good. It happened under George and Derek Warburton, under Phil Gartside and now Ken.

There's a big difference particularly for a foreign investor to want a small London club rather than a Mancunian one, if for no other reason than the land value appreciation the clubs footprint covers.

As for Bury (and Wigan) good luck to them both - but I don't recall either of their new owners having to buy £25 million worth of debt before even starting to put a penny of their own money into the club - do you?

As for Wanderlust it's fairly clear to all by now that what he bangs on about has no connection with reality.  How many people have pulled him up time and time again about these mythical assets he's apparently pawned - yet he never gives answers and continues to spout on about them ad nauseum.

We are what we are, a club carrying a large debt (but most of it now on 'soft' terms) with an owner firefighting but gradually going in the right direction of bringing costs down for us to be financially sustainable.  We made a slight profit last season thanks to the Madine sale apparently and once we get through this season we lose our last big (and stupid) wage of Amos (£16k per week - £832k pa plus employer costs!).

The future might not be bright but it is achievable if we can just hang on for another half season.

I don't think attacking the club owner by Iles, the ST and now because of them a growing number of regular (but ill informed) supporters is going to help us much.

Yes Iles has generated a lot of clicks no doubt on the Bolton News web site but really, as it helped the club we all support, out?

If like under Eddie Davies black out of news to Iles he had nothing to report this week other than to say that November players wages had been paid late - would that have been that bad really - instead the atmosphere as gone toxic with Iles and the ST attacking KA - and KA attacking them back, with fans starting to argue amongst themselves as pro or (mainly) anti Andersons.

Has that really helped out the situation at all?

Wages should be paid this week, we won't be going into Administration in the next few months and despite all the shit that's been deliberately stirred nothing much as changed except a significant increase in hatred/distrust in Anderson - so job done I guess for Iles and the ST.

But who is to know our next owner will be any better than KA?

At least we know that KA is shrewd and gutsy enough to battle and win our many financial problems up to now.  Anybody think Holdsworth or say the ST would have done a better bet?

I don't.