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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How much richer would we be if we had adopted the EURO?

How much richer would we be if we had adopted the EURO?

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wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It's the 20th anniversary of the EURO coming into existence this year and I can't help but think we missed  trick by not adopting it as our currency in the UK.
As the old millenium came to an end - with as much a sense of relief that the last one was over as anything else for most Brits - the EU launched the new currency in the hope of creating a new competitor for the almighty dollar and the already powerful Yen and the rapidly strengthening Renminbi aka Yuan.
Unsurprisingly, the global billionaire magnates that control the British media, notably Murdoch (Australian who lives in the USA and the Barclay Brothers (Brits who emigrated to Monaco but also live in the Channel Islands tax haven) slammed it from the off and whipped up a storm of nationalism, not dissimilar to the Leave campaign they undertook years later. Like the Leave campaign, they used disinformation and downright lies to appeal to the gullible, playing heavily on nationalist sentimentality.
At the time of the launch the EURO was introduced as having a value of 66 pence/1.07 dollars and as a work in progress and with questions as to whether the EU itself would survive being raised daily fuelling market confidence issues, it quickly sank, much to the delight of the foreign media magnates and they said so through their mouthpieces like the Sun and the Telegraph.
Within a year the EURO had fallen to 61 pence/91 cents and it looked like the end of the road.
But then something changed. 
When it looked like the only way was down, the markets realised they had overreacted to media speculation and started to look more closely at the real value potential of the European bloc. 
By 2001, despite a small slip against the dollar, the EURO had started to recover against the £ probably because of the continued decline of British industry highlighted by a mini global recession. British manufacturing output had sunk to a new low and the markets realised that a united Europe was a much stronger proposition than a former industrial giant.
By 2003 the EURO had passed it's original valuation to rise to 69p and made a huge jump against the dollar to 1.13.
Since then it has been up and down against the dollar due to the vagaries of global economics but what can't be denied is that steady progress has been made against all currencies, especially in overhauling the struggling £. 
2017 and 2018 saw some stabilisation against the £ at 88p - a third up from 20 years ago -presumably as the markets await the outcome of "you brexit you bought it" - and the Euro had risen to 1.18 dollars although today it sits at 1.13.

Back in 1999 a pound could buy 1.61 dollars - today it is worth a mere 1.29 dollars.
In 1999 a pound could buy 183 Japanese yen - today it's worth 141
In 1999 a pound could buy 13.39 Chinese yuan - today it's worth 8.72

If we had adopted the EURO back in the day and thereby converted our assets into EUROS at that time there's a pretty strong case to suggest our economy would be massively stronger than it currently is because currency exchange rate is the backbone of foreign investment and we could probably own half of America and a good chunk of worldwide resources by now.
After all it was the strength of currency that underpinned our growth as a nation as we took control of resources globally to create the British Empire. Sadly the British people were mugged out of that opportunity for economic recovery.

A third down against the EURO and a fifth down against the dollar in just 20 years - that's the price of misplaced sentimental nationalist pride incited by manipulative billionaires who don't even live here. What the final cost will be we have yet to discover.

Anyone think it was a good idea to stay out of the EURO?

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I can imagine the likes of KP and Glos spitting out their tea in disgust  Laughing

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:I can imagine the likes of KP and Glos spitting out their tea in disgust  Laughing
Why though? I know this is with the benefit of hindsight but the facts are the facts and we'd have been a lot better off if we'd joined the effing common currency and stuck the queen's fizzog on the back of British Euros as was the plan instead of swallowing Murdoch's tripe. 
There's not much "sovereignty" when opinions are being manipulated by the likes of Murdoch is there?

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Laughing

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
It would have been short term pain, just like all other EU countries had, and just as much as UK had when it went decimal in 1971.  But as you have stated the benefits today completely outweigh the negatives.

There again, being biased as I am a very pro-EU and believe we should have USE (United States of Europe), although change IS required and can only be done from within the system and not on the outside.

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Wander, have to admit that I couldn't be arsed wading through all your hard work, (sorry). However, I do remember the EU program I've referred to before, where they they said that the general feeling was the Euro was about to crash, and if it had, the £ would have survived. (swings and roundabouts, just on a bigger scale)
I think we've handed enough of our assets, be it financial or whatever, to Europe, without giving them sway over the £. 
Just as well that English is accepted as the international language, otherwise you'd be wanting us to speak in French or German next  Very Happy

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@bwfc71 wrote:It would have been short term pain, just like all other EU countries had, and just as much as UK had when it went decimal in 1971.  But as you have stated the benefits today completely outweigh the negatives.

There again, being biased as I am a very pro-EU and believe we should have USE (United States of Europe), although change IS required and can only be done from within the system and not on the outside.
You can't change a system from inside when it is manipulated and managed by 2 of the 27 participants.

I don't think Greece considers the financial wheeling and dealing of other members within the EU as short term pain.

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:
@bwfc71 wrote:It would have been short term pain, just like all other EU countries had, and just as much as UK had when it went decimal in 1971.  But as you have stated the benefits today completely outweigh the negatives.

There again, being biased as I am a very pro-EU and believe we should have USE (United States of Europe), although change IS required and can only be done from within the system and not on the outside.
You can't change a system from inside when it is manipulated and managed by 2 of the 27 participants.


If only you could provide some examples of two countries manipulating and managing the other 25.

And what happened to the other member state as the EU still has 28 members?

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:
@bwfc71 wrote:It would have been short term pain, just like all other EU countries had, and just as much as UK had when it went decimal in 1971.  But as you have stated the benefits today completely outweigh the negatives.

There again, being biased as I am a very pro-EU and believe we should have USE (United States of Europe), although change IS required and can only be done from within the system and not on the outside.
You can't change a system from inside when it is manipulated and managed by 2 of the 27 participants.

I don't think Greece considers the financial wheeling and dealing of other members within the EU as short term pain.
Greece, like all the other EU countries that adopted the Euro are 20% better off compared to us than they otherwise would have been. Their economy was down the spout, was bailed out by the EU to whom it now has a substantial debt and they survived.
You'd think that Greece would be a destination for Brits, but the reality is it's damned expensive for us to go there and we no longer enjoy the favourable trading terms we once had with them.
The right wind media mocked, and all the while they have been getting stronger in the EU than they would have been if they'd stayed out - even if the people hate the austerity measures and taxes imposed on them to pay for their survival.

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Wander, have to admit that I couldn't be arsed wading through all your hard work, (sorry). However, I do remember the EU program I've referred to before, where they they said that the general feeling was the Euro was about to crash, and if it had, the £ would have survived. (swings and roundabouts, just on a bigger scale)
I think we've handed enough of our assets, be it financial or whatever, to Europe, without giving them sway over the £. 
Just as well that English is accepted as the international language, otherwise you'd be wanting us to speak in French or German next  Very Happy
I don't think we've handed assets to the EU, it's just that our assets have devalued because we stayed out of the Euro.

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Wander, have to admit that I couldn't be arsed wading through all your hard work, (sorry). However, I do remember the EU program I've referred to before, where they they said that the general feeling was the Euro was about to crash, and if it had, the £ would have survived. (swings and roundabouts, just on a bigger scale)
I think we've handed enough of our assets, be it financial or whatever, to Europe, without giving them sway over the £. 
Just as well that English is accepted as the international language, otherwise you'd be wanting us to speak in French or German next  Very Happy
I don't think we've handed assets to the EU, it's just that our assets have devalued because we stayed out of the Euro.
Weasel words there Wander, and I don't actually agree with your reasoning. I still can't understand how so many people, usually remainers, refer to the EU as our 'friends'.

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Wander, have to admit that I couldn't be arsed wading through all your hard work, (sorry). However, I do remember the EU program I've referred to before, where they they said that the general feeling was the Euro was about to crash, and if it had, the £ would have survived. (swings and roundabouts, just on a bigger scale)
I think we've handed enough of our assets, be it financial or whatever, to Europe, without giving them sway over the £. 
Just as well that English is accepted as the international language, otherwise you'd be wanting us to speak in French or German next  Very Happy
I don't think we've handed assets to the EU, it's just that our assets have devalued because we stayed out of the Euro.
Weasel words there Wander, and I don't actually agree with your reasoning. I still can't understand how so many people, usually remainers, refer to the EU as our 'friends'.
You'll need to enlighten me then Glos. 
I didn't say the EU were our "friends" and although I do have friends who live in the EU I always refer to the countries they live in by the correct terminology i.e. partners -  soon to be ex-partners.
And who are "they" who said the Euro was about to crash? I thought that was just the foreign -owned nationalist media who have spent the last 30 years whispering poisonous lies about the EU into the ears of those who will listen and never praising the incredible successes or mentioning our financial dependence on retaining EU status? Whoever they were they were very wrong anyway so it's a moot point.

What annoys me is that we can't rebuild the British Empire as we did before as the twin pillars of British wealth - Slavery and Opium - are now banned, and the industry we replaced them with has been dismantled.

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