Is it time for May to go?

MP's have voted to take control of Parliament away from the elected government over the Brexit process which is unprecedented step in parliamentary history in modern times.  Thirty Conservatives voting against their own party/government!

As the head of the elected government is this the final straw for the Conservatives to ditch May?

If so will they be any better with Gove (LEAVE) or Lidington (REMAIN) as an interim leader?

Utter shambles.

Will it be any better? Will they stop playing politics and finally address the issue which is that nobody knows what the people really wanted when they voted to leave? The only way this will get resolved is to understand the will of the people and until that happens I suspect chaos will reign.

Heseltine's comment this morning: "no point in changing the singer if you don't change the song"

That said, the vote against May was largely due to a lack of confidence in the Government allowing ALL the Brexit options to be discussed i.e. railroading and duly May has stated that she won't necessarily abide with Parliament's decision so she is obviously being told to dig her heels in by her masters, so in that regard I think she should go, but who could replace her? Another puppet?

I don't think changing the PM will do anything to resolve the issue, other than deliberately choosing a remain replacement. In doing so, he/she will then steer the government away from a democratically decided referendum. 
I believe that we are seeing much more than a side show of changing the PM. I think we are witnessing a change in the way Parliament will work in the future. I'm not sure what the end product will be, or even if it will be a change for the good, but I'm certain change is on the way.

gloswhite wrote:I don't think changing the PM will do anything to resolve the issue, other than deliberately choosing a remain replacement. In doing so, he/she will then steer the government away from a democratically decided referendum. 
I believe that we are seeing much more than a side show of changing the PM. I think we are witnessing a change in the way Parliament will work in the future. I'm not sure what the end product will be, or even if it will be a change for the good, but I'm certain change is on the way.

There are allegedly two candidates, one remain one leave, but I don't think that's the important part because whoever is leading the divided Tories it won't make the issue go away. As Heseltine put it this morning "it's the song not the singer". Perhaps the one good thing that may come out of it is to open the debate up to considering all the options and potential solutions instead of the one-track agenda that May has been trying to railroad through for the last two years. 
It certainly looks like the vote last night was largely driven by May's unwillingness to consider anything else.

Anyone with a shred of dignity would have left after the absolute shit show that was the early general election.

I posted on the forum, at least a year ago, that I couldn't understand how the Tories retained 'ownership' of the process, and felt that it should be a cross party affair.  Unfortunately, we've seen that its even worse than first thought, in that the PM seems to have made all the decisions herself, and closed down any suggestion of cooperation. To be fair, Corbyn has been just as bad with indecision, and fighting to keep his party from also ripping itself apart. I felt the Tories were doing not too bad a job from a leaving point of view, until about 3 months or so ago, when every went to rat shit.
We are now in the position where the Executive have been undermined by the House, democracy has taken a giant swerve from where it should be, and, because nobody can agree, we are likely to end up with a hotchpotch of wants, very much like a bunch of kids in a sweet shop, all asking for their favourite.
The ludicrous part, is that whatever the choices, it could well be that the PM's plan, the only one the EU will accept, will get through as the default position, (personally, I wouldn't mind this)
I hope that when Brexit finally appears, we have a more competent set of negotiators for the next phase, and are fully prepared to discuss the future relationship with the EU, with the current ones kicked into touch, bar a couple. One thing is for certain, they will be a lot wiser in how to negotiate with the EU, (we hope).

gloswhite wrote:I posted on the forum, at least a year ago, that I couldn't understand how the Tories retained 'ownership' of the process, and felt that it should be a cross party affair.  Unfortunately, we've seen that its even worse than first thought, in that the PM seems to have made all the decisions herself, and closed down any suggestion of cooperation. To be fair, Corbyn has been just as bad with indecision, and fighting to keep his party from also ripping itself apart. I felt the Tories were doing not too bad a job from a leaving point of view, until about 3 months or so ago, when every went to rat shit.
We are now in the position where the Executive have been undermined by the House, democracy has taken a giant swerve from where it should be, and, because nobody can agree, we are likely to end up with a hotchpotch of wants, very much like a bunch of kids in a sweet shop, all asking for their favourite.
The ludicrous part, is that whatever the choices, it could well be that the PM's plan, the only one the EU will accept, will get through as the default position, (personally, I wouldn't mind this)
I hope that when Brexit finally appears, we have a more competent set of negotiators for the next phase, and are fully prepared to discuss the future relationship with the EU, with the current ones kicked into touch, bar a couple. One thing is for certain, they will be a lot wiser in how to negotiate with the EU, (we hope).

Totally agree with the first part, not so much with the second and have no confidence in the idea that somehow we can negotiate a better deal for the very reasons we ended up with May's offering. The EU simply won't have it despite what the Leave campaign promised, which is what happens when the electorate are encouraged to vote for a "wish list" rather than realistic, achievable options.

May has brought this upon herself. She unilaterally decided on a hard brexit, negotiated her deal and then failed to convince the DUP (even after bribing them with a billion pounds) and other brexiteers. She refuses to consult or listen to anyone who isn't a brexiteer and seems unable to recognise her own massive limitations.

The latest polls show that over 80% of leave voters think the negotiations have been a shambles and that we are going to get a very bad brexit. More and more voters are saying they want to remain not leave the EU.

So should she resign? Well yes if she had a shread of shame or dignity. Will she resign? I don't think so. I think she is so obsessed we trying to keep the Tory party together she will ultimately opt for a no deal brexit. There is plenty of evidence that she is far more concerned about the welfare of the Tory party than the impact of a no deal brexit on the country.

In any other era she would have felt the wrath of her party and just like Maggie she would be gone, the number and severity of her defeats in the house are unprecedented any other PM falls on the sword, However the intrigue known fondly as Brexit keeps on saving her skin.

Assuming it's a new Tory PM who would be daft enough to take her place at this time with an unsolvable problem that is more than likely going to tear the country apart, possible bring the UK to an end when Scotland leave and rip the Tory party to shreds who fancies that job at this time?

I have said throughout that this was started by the Tories as a quick fix (DC) just to quickly lance the boil in the Tory party. Well that went well.

 Since then they have gone through 3 Brexit secretaries and shown the most divided cabinet ever, Civil war just about sums it up.

However i fear a general election for two reasons :

1) If Labour fail to win, then it shows without doubt that JC and the far left strategy cannot deliver a Labour government. EVER.

2) If they win and Brexit is still not solved, then the the biggest mess in British political history stops being owned by the creators ie Tory Party,and ownership passes to JC and Labour and IF he fails to deliver then for years to come the public will shift the blame to Labour.

I say let this lot, lie in the bed they have made, start to finish a disaster of their making.

gloswhite wrote:I don't think changing the PM will do anything to resolve the issue, other than deliberately choosing a remain replacement. In doing so, he/she will then steer the government away from a democratically decided referendum. 
I believe that we are seeing much more than a side show of changing the PM. I think we are witnessing a change in the way Parliament will work in the future. I'm not sure what the end product will be, or even if it will be a change for the good, but I'm certain change is on the way.

Disagree, think the only deal that will get through Parliament is a ‘softer’ Brexit. And that can’t be achieved with May’s red lines.

She’s created this situation for herself, promised hardliners she’d deliver what a no deal only could and has now wasted almost 6 months trying to force her deal through when it will never pass.

Shameful gambling of the countries future. If people had any sense the Tories will never get close to power again.

May is a great leader, inspirational in fact.

A Prime Minister is supposed to lead and make the tough decisions, not see which is the most popular option and go with that.

The fault with this cock up lies with the British system....if May didn't need the "approval" of a majority of MPs then Brexit would have been sorted ages ago. Parky doesn't need 50% of the North Stand to approve taking Buckley off.

We should trust our leader to do what is best for the country, even if we don't agree with it.

You should correct that to: the fault with this cock up lies with ‘democracy’.

Natasha Whittam wrote:May is a great leader, inspirational in fact.

A Prime Minister is supposed to lead and make the tough decisions, not see which is the most popular option and go with that.

The fault with this cock up lies with the British system....if May didn't need the "approval" of a majority of MPs then Brexit would have been sorted ages ago. Parky doesn't need 50% of the North Stand to approve taking Buckley off.

We should trust our leader to do what is best for the country, even if we don't agree with it.

What you are advocating is dictatorship not democracy.

After 3 wasted years and still no end in sight to Brexit i'm surprised she's lasted this long with the vulures circling in the Tory party.
It should have been a cross party venture this whole time we have been negotiating. Only problem is when she does go then that buffoon Boris will probably be the next PM 

Norpig wrote:After 3 wasted years and still no end in sight to Brexit i'm surprised she's lasted this long with the vulures circling in the Tory party.
It should have been a cross party venture this whole time we have been negotiating. Only problem is when she does go then that buffoon Boris will probably be the next PM 

Please don't say that. Can you imagine a Trump/Boris summit?

boltonbonce wrote:

Norpig wrote:After 3 wasted years and still no end in sight to Brexit i'm surprised she's lasted this long with the vulures circling in the Tory party.
It should have been a cross party venture this whole time we have been negotiating. Only problem is when she does go then that buffoon Boris will probably be the next PM 

Please don't say that. Can you imagine a Trump/Boris summit?

Hide the crayons.

FWIW I can't imagine anyone wanting to take on the poisoned chalice right now.

Now that she has offered to resign, you'll see them all coming out of the woodwork if it happens.

She is only going to quit if she gets her deal passed and that won't happen, so then what?

She has totally messed up and just won't admit it.

xmiles wrote:She is only going to quit if she gets her deal passed and that won't happen, so then what?

She has totally messed up and just won't admit it.

You admire her don't you.