So much for parliamentary democracy

boltonbonce wrote:The Brexit party are a flash in the pan. A general election would put the many nut jobs that'll be standing on their particular ticket, under serious media scrutiny, a scrutiny they didn't get at the European election.
It won't be a pretty sight.

They only have to take about 20 to 30 seats off Labour and that combined with the main anti Brexit Tory rebels no longer in a seat will give Johnson the power to do whatever he wants to go about securing Brexit.

The European elections - although meaningless as such, suggests such a target for the Brexit Party would be quite feasible to achieve as many Labour constituency areas voted for the Brexit Party and against Labour.

If the Labour Party wasn't concerned this would happen again at a GE then they would not be hiding behind the position of needing to have a referendum first.

Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

T.R.O.Y wrote:Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

You're correct they haven't

I've poorly worded what I'd said due to somewhat muddled thinking by me, so I apologise if I've misled anyone by it.

What I have been attempting to say is a GE with the Brexit Party contesting it could/would be seen by many voters in Labour seats as a second referendum (third if you count the recent EU elections) - ie what would you prefer a straight Brexit now (by voting for the Brexit Party) or several more months of more arguments about it, if you vote Labour as you normally do?

That's why Corbyn/Labour want the GE to be held after the 30th October, otherwise if Johnson wins, as I fully expect he will, he has a clear mandate to do a No Deal exit on that date.

That puts Corbyn in the wilderness for the next five years and would probably mean him stepping down as leader.

That's why he doesn't want to support a no confidence motion until the GE date is to be held after 30th October.

If he was confident of winning the GE then why would he want the date to be after the 30th Oct - ie the election becomes the referendum by default in many voters eyes.

He obviously doesn't think he will win it before October - does he!

I don’t agree with your assessment to be honest.

The suspicion is Boris wants a General election to waste time and force through a no deal. Corbyn’s reiterated the party stance of no GE until statute preventing no deal is in law.

Once it’s passed, the GE will be on.

I think people may be clutching at straws believing that the Tories will smash an election, my guess is that our hung parliament will be even more hung than it was before !!!

T.R.O.Y wrote:Haven’t seen Labour ask for a referendum?

Labours position is to go to Europe to negotiate a deal to leave the EU. 

Then bring it back to the people and tell them to vote against it. 

Have you ever heard anything more stupid.

Why not just be honest with the people and campaign on the genuine position of cancelling brexit.

okocha wrote:Instead of using thugs likeTrump as a role model and Cummings as an advisor, Boris should be looking to people like NZ leader Jacinda Arderne as an example of how to govern with genuine compassion and affection for your citizens in engendering a tolerant, inclusive society.

Do you really think leading NZ is the same as being leader of the US?

Sluffy wrote: putting achieving of being in power themselves before the good of the country.

That is the very definition of what Cameron and May did. Membership of the EU was not an issue for anybody apart from a few loonies in the Tory party until Cameron agreed to a referendum. Cameron put party before country and we are all now suffering the consequences.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

okocha wrote:Instead of using thugs likeTrump as a role model and Cummings as an advisor, Boris should be looking to people like NZ leader Jacinda Arderne as an example of how to govern with genuine compassion and affection for your citizens in engendering a tolerant, inclusive society.

Do you really think leading NZ is the same as being leader of the US?

You've misunderstood what I wrote, Nat. I'm comparing her leadership with Boris'....the one garnering respect through her dignity, the other behaving like an angry, insulting dictator.   British people don't respond well to bullies.

Trump is mentioned as an example of a thug like Cummings that Boris misguidedly leans on for advice.

Just like Blair leant on that foul-mouthed bully Campbell.

It's a no brainer for Labour, it's essential that any election happens after 31st of October, let Johnson prove his word, he set the line in the sand no one forced him to say we had to be out by then.

 He now realises that he needs an election prior to his promise or he is toast, if he fails then he is just another May making promises he can't keep.  Let him sweat and see how desperate he becomes he's already shouting from the roof tops for an election, loses his majority and his first votes in the house and then his brother fookes off. Brilliant.

wessy wrote:It's a no brainer for Labour, it's essential that any election happens after 31st of October, let Johnson prove his word, he set the line in the sand no one forced him to say we had to be out by then.

 He now realises that he needs an election prior to his promise or he is toast, if he fails then he is just another May making promises he can't keep.  Let him sweat and see how desperate he becomes he's already shouting from the roof tops for an election, loses his majority and his first votes in the house and then his brother fookes off. Brilliant.

Johnson will walk an election whether it happens in October, November or next year.

People like a strong leader.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

People like a strong leader.

That never goes wrong does it. I am sure you can provide your own examples.

More brexiteer abuse:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49598999

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Johnson will walk an election whether it happens in October, November or next year.

People like a strong leader.

.....But he's a weak leader, lashing out wildly and abusively, alienating well respected members of his own party with lies, empty rhetoric and  bullying behaviour. People don't like that and I suspect you don't either

Haha thornberry confirms on bbcqt last night that she would "get the best deal for Britain" and then campaign against it to remain. 

You honestly couldn't make it up.

Agree it is a ridiculous position.

Brexit is not the only issue we should be voting on though, although it will be. Can you honestly say a Boris government would be good for this country?

Better than a Corbyn government. Without question.