HomeNo abuse intended Sluffy. The last sentence was a clumsy attempt to clarify that I wasn't having a dig at you in the preceding sentence - clearly didn't go well. Apologies if I offended you in any way.Sluffy wrote:
I've no idea what you were trying to say in your last couple of sentences in your post above but if it was intended as some sort of abuse towards me, then you've learned absolutely nothing and your time on here will inevitably be short lived.
Black Lives Matter
+13
sunlight
Boggersbelief
Keegan
BoltonTillIDie
xmiles
Natasha Whittam
finlaymcdanger
Sluffy
karlypants
RangersDave
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okocha
gloswhite
17 posters
Message [Page 11 of 17]
201 Re: Black Lives Matter Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:49 pm
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
202 Re: Black Lives Matter Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:05 pm
Guest
Guest
Sluffy wrote:
Interesting thank you.
I post below what the link says -
Today, Donald Trump attributed a quote to a “Black Lives Matter leader” on his social media. We have traced these comments to Hawk Newsome. Hawk Newsome has no relation to the Black Lives Matter Global Network (“BLM”) founded by Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi — and is not the “president” of BLM or any of its chapters. Only BLM chapters who adhere to BLM’s principles and code of ethics are permitted to use the BLM name. The reason for this is simple: unaffiliated uses of BLM’s name are confusing to people who may wrongly associate the unsanctioned group and its views and actions with BLM. As BLM has told Mr. Newsome in the past, and as is still true today, Mr. Newsome’s group is not a chapter of BLM and has not entered into any agreement with BLM agreeing to adhere to BLM’s core principles. The only official chapter of BLM in New York is Black Lives Matter NYC.
BLM Global Network strongly encourages anyone interested in learning about or becoming a part of our movement to seek information from trusted, official sources — such as our BLM Global Network social feeds (@blklivesmatter), our emails, and our official Black Lives Matters website (blacklivesmatter.com) — rather than unknown or untrusted sources using BLM’s name.
Taken that is an official statement I'd like to highlight this line in particular -
"...to the Black Lives Matter Global Network (“BLM”) founded by Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi".
And refer you to what the BLMuk states on their twitter bio -
https://twitter.com/ukblm
Official page for #BlackLivesMatterUK A coalition of people from across the UK who believe deeply that #blacklivesmatter. Endorsed by
@osopepatrisse
IG: @ BLMUK
The site is specifying that it is official in that it has been endorsed by Patrisse Cullors herself -
https://twitter.com/osopepatrisse
So if BLMuk is deemed official, then it therefore follows that what it tweets must also be official BLM views too.
BLMuk was tweeting anti-Semitic remarks last week. Does that mean they speak for the movement? No. As you correctly point out they have a measly 73k followers on twitter this movement is supported by millions. To put it into your terms - does the Official Supporters Trust speak for you?
It’s a right wing tactic to discredit the entire movement, by parroting it you legitimise it.
203 Re: Black Lives Matter Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:06 pm
Sluffy
Admin
wanderlust wrote:No abuse intended Sluffy. The last sentence was a clumsy attempt to clarify that I wasn't having a dig at you in the preceding sentence - clearly didn't go well. Apologies if I offended you in any way.Sluffy wrote:
I've no idea what you were trying to say in your last couple of sentences in your post above but if it was intended as some sort of abuse towards me, then you've learned absolutely nothing and your time on here will inevitably be short lived.
Ok, that's fine,
No offence taken.
204 Re: Black Lives Matter Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:45 pm
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:BLMuk was tweeting anti-Semitic remarks last week. Does that mean they speak for the movement? No. As you correctly point out they have a measly 73k followers on twitter this movement is supported by millions. To put it into your terms - does the Official Supporters Trust speak for you?
It’s a right wing tactic to discredit the entire movement, by parroting it you legitimise it.
There you go again.
They might only have 73,000 followers on Twitter but they've also now got £1.1m in the bank!
As for your analogy with the ST - that's flawed too, if I may say so because although they don't speak for me there are clearly even now, many people who believe they speak for them. Indeed it may look puny in comparison but they raised £20k in donations for their 'fighting fund' despite by that time many people realising that by then they were neither use nor ornament!
Fair play to them for getting £20k - although iirc they only spent something like £6k on the fighting fund and put the other £13k or so into the ST bank account to stave off showing a trading loss for the year! - very dodgy in my humble opinion.
Right wing tactic or not, it IS pretty obvious that they ARE the official BLM 'Chapter' for the UK and they HAVE made anti-Semitic tweets and have not apologised, taken them down or deleted them!
I'm well aware of the difference between the overwhelming public desire (mine too fwiw) and the political/activist/extremist/revolutionary/call it what you will, organisation officially sanctioned by the BLM founder/s that represent the movement but they are not compatible with each other.
I sincerely doubt many protesting for black equality would truly wish for prejudice to be shown to any other group ever again, and in this case towards those of the Jewish faith.
I would have thought you more than anybody being a supporter of leftist Labour Party thinking, would have known that core antisemitism within the leadership under Corbyn was not representative of the Labour Party rank and file membership and ultimately became highly toxic to your political party and tainting everything else you were trying to achieve.
It isn't a right wing tactic to discredit the whole movement it is simply (as you like to say) the media and others 'scrutinising' the statements and actions of what the official BLM Chapter for this country is actually propagating and 'holding them to account' for it.
Radical activism/threats of direct action/anti-Semitism from whatever extreme of group, party or chapter is not acceptable, particularly when it directly taints such a worthwhile cause.
Like it or not BLMuk as the OFFICIAL body in this country DO speak for BLM and are perceived as such.
205 Re: Black Lives Matter Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:25 pm
Sluffy
Admin
You may also want to read this quite lengthy article on BLMuk posted in The Mail a couple of weeks back, before the anti-Semitic tweets.
Interestingly it makes the same point I did in that many people contributing in good faith to the Go Fund Me page will have no idea what there money is going to, nor even who the people actually are who will be receiving the money and spending it!
The BLM executive in the USA need to rescind their backing of the chapter immediately I would suggest and take back control of their UK arm of BLM because the clowns who they have backed up to now are doing their cause no good at all.
(So a bit like the ST after all!!!).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.html
Interestingly it makes the same point I did in that many people contributing in good faith to the Go Fund Me page will have no idea what there money is going to, nor even who the people actually are who will be receiving the money and spending it!
The BLM executive in the USA need to rescind their backing of the chapter immediately I would suggest and take back control of their UK arm of BLM because the clowns who they have backed up to now are doing their cause no good at all.
(So a bit like the ST after all!!!).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8441405/The-avowed-aims-British-arm-Black-Lives-Matter.html
206 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 am
Guest
Guest
I’m no supporter of the ‘official’ group, not many are.
What I’m saying is that focussing on what this self appointed ‘official’ group want distracts from the purpose of the movement to achieve equality - and we shouldn’t pander to it.
For example, you have spent more time arguing against the movement than actually addressing or considering it’s core concerns - and that is the same for the right wing. Which is a shame because it’s a real and important issue which needs focus to progress.
Rather than talking about equality the conversation has been allowed to be tainted. It’s a wasted opportunity.
What I’m saying is that focussing on what this self appointed ‘official’ group want distracts from the purpose of the movement to achieve equality - and we shouldn’t pander to it.
For example, you have spent more time arguing against the movement than actually addressing or considering it’s core concerns - and that is the same for the right wing. Which is a shame because it’s a real and important issue which needs focus to progress.
Rather than talking about equality the conversation has been allowed to be tainted. It’s a wasted opportunity.
207 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:11 am
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’m no supporter of the ‘official’ group, not many are.
What I’m saying is that focussing on what this self appointed ‘official’ group want distracts from the purpose of the movement to achieve equality - and we shouldn’t pander to it.
For example, you have spent more time arguing against the movement than actually addressing or considering it’s core concerns - and that is the same for the right wing. Which is a shame because it’s a real and important issue which needs focus to progress.
Rather than talking about equality the conversation has been allowed to be tainted. It’s a wasted opportunity.
I don't disagree but at the end of the day if you've organised and recognised as such and validated by the people who started this whole movement in the first place, then that's the place where people focus on.
And to compound that issue they now of £1m of funding to put to causes 'they' believe in - ie stop funding the police, closing prisons, the end of capitalism and anti Jewish causes.
Your initial jab at me with the ST analogy is actually looking more relevant by the day in that when there is an issue at the BWFC who do the the media and authorities turn to to hear the opinions and desire of the fan base but non other than them!
They have meetings with the EFL, every statement they make is repeated in the local press, Bridge, Allanson, Tetlow, etc, have regularly been interviewed by the TV and radio, they hold public meetings, they have their own social media platforms, etc, etc, etc - but as we all know - they don't represent the huge proportion of our fans - and I maintain they are in it for their own agenda (namely to take ownership of the club itself - in the guise of doing it for the fans).
Imagine what voice they would have if they raised £1m for their cause rather than just £20k?
As long as BLMuk remains the OFFICIAL chapter of the movement it's words and actions will be seen to be those views held by the movement - in just the same way as when the ST is interviewed by the media when something has gone wrong at the club again.
The solution to all this is simple.
It's not ignore the right wings attempt 'taint' (is that the right word?) the BLM movement but just for the executive of the BLM in America to simply officially state they are not representative of them in just the same way as they did with the New York chapter that led to Trump criticising them.
The longer they delay, the longer people will believe that it is indeed the (hidden) agenda of the movement.
The executive must be fully aware by now that one of its chapters has raised £1m and have made antizionist remarks etc, in the UK, their continued silence and inaction can only be seen to be accepting this position to be one they are happy with.
Lets put it bluntly if a group purporting to represent a right wing movement were to be saying something like kick the blacks out of ... (insert whatever country you like) and be high profile in the media for saying this, then BLM would be all over this would they not?
Why then when the boot is on the other foot that we are hearing nothing from them condemning such a view from its own chapter / or that the chapter is not affiliated to them?
They did in the NY case.
208 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:16 am
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy, there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policies, and being 'anti Jewish', which I think you need to acknowledge.
209 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:20 am
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Fair comment at the end Sluffy, it has gone very quiet from the BLM, even though there are still a few genuine souls attempting to keep the topic in the public eye.
210 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:28 am
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
Posts : 2590
Join date : 2013-09-01
Location : Old Boltonian
Exactly....boltonbonce wrote:Sluffy, there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policies, and being 'anti Jewish', which I think you need to acknowledge.
211 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:54 am
Sluffy
Admin
boltonbonce wrote:Sluffy, there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policies, and being 'anti Jewish', which I think you need to acknowledge.
I do acknowledge that, I've not said otherwise have I?
For the record I believe that at the very least Israel should revert back to its 1947 boarders and that everyone should then live in peace and harmony but we all know that is never going to happen.
All this has it's roots in religion and politics (both of which can be used as shorthand for 'power') - and as I have often said, the world would be better off without both - but that isn't going to happen either.
Until someone can come up with a solution to solve the Palestine/Israel conundrum to the satisfaction of all concerned then nothing you can do or say will help matters much.
212 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:06 am
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Just to be pedantic for a moment, I don't believe there is a difference as I remember reading that the overarching Jewish law body whose name eludes me ATM ruled that criticism of the state of Israel is anti-semitic. But it's only a small number of Jews who consider it so.boltonbonce wrote:Sluffy, there's a difference between being critical of Israeli policies, and being 'anti Jewish', which I think you need to acknowledge.
213 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:33 pm
Guest
Guest
Sluffy wrote:
I don't disagree but at the end of the day if you've organised and recognised as such and validated by the people who started this whole movement in the first place, then that's the place where people focus on.
Well, not quite Sluff - that's just what the right have decided to focus on - whether intentionally or not it's detracted from the real issue, and supporters of BLM are still focussed on achieving equality.
Sluffy wrote:Your initial jab at me with the ST analogy is actually looking more relevant by the day in that when there is an issue at the BWFC who do the the media and authorities turn to to hear the opinions and desire of the fan base but non other than them!
To be clear, my mentioning of the ST was not a jab - just making a point that just because a group calls itself something doesn't make it so. Thanks for recognising it's relevance, I think it proves my point.
Anyway, hopefully this thread can return to the real issue of inequality in Britain.
214 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:41 pm
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y. wrote:Well, not quite Sluff
Pet names now?
You've changed.
216 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:03 pm
Guest
Guest
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Pet names now?
You've changed.
You're right, I'm going soft trying to keep people happy on here - it's just not right.
Fuck you all.
217 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:38 pm
Sluffy
Admin
Natasha Whittam wrote:T.R.O.Y. wrote:Well, not quite Sluff
Pet names now?
You've changed.
T.R.O. and me get along just fine now.
218 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:07 pm
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
T.R.O.Y. wrote:
You're right, I'm going soft trying to keep people happy on here - it's just not right.
Fuck you all.
219 Re: Black Lives Matter Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:22 pm
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
You will always make me happy TROJAN.T.R.O.Y. wrote:
You're right, I'm going soft trying to keep people happy on here - it's just not right.
Fuck you all.
220 Re: Black Lives Matter Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:44 am
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
TROY, are you over your tizzy now ? Good to see that your a real person under that cool and measured facade
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