Wigan in Administration

boltonbonce wrote:Interview with administrator coming up on talkSPORT from ten.

Thanks but I missed it and haven't yet caught it on the 'play back' or whatever it's called.

I have though copied this from 'Benny' on ww - whose comments I respect -

Paul Stanley one of the admins been on Talksport this morning

When asked do they have a credible bidder - ( the answer is NO ) he said - they had a bidder for the fish and chip shop , and a separate bidder for the training ground and the football club ( Billionaire American Consortium - as reported by Alan Nixon ) who dont want to buy the stadium , and who thought they could start the season playing at other North West Clubs grounds on a week by week basis.

Obviously the EFL wont allow that

( Does beg the question if you are a billionaire owner - why are you not prepared to buy the stadium ? )

Said they have tried to make it as easy (cheap) as possible for a buyer - at start of admin they needed £13 million in cash to come in to cover football and other creditors and buy the assets , having sold players , now need just £4 million for stadium training ground and club

Cut off point for a sale is when the money runs out

Said EFL ok on starting season , as they can fund it , but did not commit as to how long they can fund it for

Nothing new really said - but clearly the clock is ticking and they are running out of players to sell.

No mention of Rugby club , council , supporters club or other bidders

When asked about their own fees - he got a bit abusive - called Simon Jordan a Half wit co presenter whose only claim to fame is that he spent £50 million on a football club and lost the lot.

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/91097-pie-eaters-go-into-administration/?do=findComment&comment=2072305

So still £4m to buy the club and stadium (or a definite signed contract at another ground/s that meets EFL requirements and have priority over anyone else who plays there) and presumably some sort of funding proof that they can see out at least this season (and technically next season as well).

I just can't see why anyone outside the fans or local fan (such as they had in Whelan) would throw their money away on them?

Seems the drama will go on for at least a month or two yet until presumably the EFL puts them out of the misery or some white knight rescues them?

Cannot understand why the EFL are letting this drag out.

Say it goes on for a month, thats a fair few games that will need to be voided if it falls through, and why let it drag on.

Either they can finance 2 months right now, including playing at home, with all that includes regarding staffing, insurance etc or they cannot.

If they cannot, despite all this time with the receivers, then the plug should be pulled. simple as.

If the EFL dont, then they are playing games with their ususal shilly shallying (long time since i used those words and i like them!) and obfuscating (ditto).

Total bunch of £€@%^&

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Please keep posts and disputes from other sites off Nuts

???

That referred to people having baggage between forums - this is simply about someone updating factual news.

Anyway, this appears to be what the Administrator said this morning -

Wigan Athletic takeover deal 'doable in a fortnight'

Co-administrator Paul Stanley believes a successful resolution to Wigan Athletic's search for a new owner is 'doable' within the next fortnight.

The French-American consortium - fronted by Oostende CEO Gauthier Ganaye, with the funds of US financiers Randy Frankel and Michael Kalt - appears to remain the most likely outcome.
This despite them only bidding for the football club and its Christopher Park training complex - and not the DW Stadium - which makes them 'not serious bidders' in the opinion of co-administrator Gerald Krasner.
Nevertheless, Stanley says all parties are still in negotiations and, with a bit of give and take, a deal could be tied up relatively quickly.
"I'd like to have got the deal done in the next couple of weeks really," he said.
"We've got the parties talking to each other, so it should be doable.
"We've had people bidding for single assets, like the fish and chip shop.
"We've had people bidding for the training ground and the club without the stadium...I think that party thought they could move the games around local teams in the north west on a weekly basis, which clearly you can't do under EFL rules.
"I think anybody taking the club on needs to have the stadium as well, otherwise they're not going to be able to play games anywhere.
"There isn't really a viable alternative to using the DW Stadium, I don't think."
Stanley also defended the record of administrators Begbies Traynor since assuming control on July 1.
"We've tried to make this as easy as possible," he said.
"At the beginning of this process, we needed around £13million of cash coming in to clear football creditors and a myriad of other things...over a summer period with absolutely no income.
"We've had to sell players, largely because there was money owed on them, and some of them had release clauses.
"That money's now come in, and we now need around £4million for the training ground, the stadium and the football club.
"Which if there's one party buying it, I don't think it's that expensive.
"I see Brentford have just built a stadium for £70million, and I think you'd be getting pretty near to a state-of-the-art stadium here, with a 25,000 capacity.
"Anybody who's interested in getting into football, I think you've got an ideal blueprint here to start from, for not a lot of money."
When asked if and when the cut-off point would come, Stanley replied: "The cut-off point would be if we were to run out of money at any point.
"We've got to a point where the squad is very, very thin, and we still haven't got crowds coming into games - which will hopefully change in October.
"The EFL have been very supportive in the conversations we've had, they're letting us start the season, so it's only about the income coming in.
"The wage bill is now down to a manageable level, so it's only a question now of when the money runs out.
"That's a variable, because we're still in the transfer window, so we still have the ability to sell players - although that isn't our priority."
Stanley was speaking on talkSPORT to Jim White, whose co-presenter Simon Jordan has been particularly scathing in his assessment of the administrators' actions and fees - which are in excess of seven figures.
"The problem when you have a halfwit co-presenter, whose only claim to fame was spending £50million on a club (Crystal Palace) and losing the lot, is I don't really value his opinion, to be quite honest," Stanley added.
"From our point of view, we put out a statutory report, which tells people what we feel the job will cost in terms of our costs.
"That's what the law says we have to do, but that doesn't mean we will be charging those fees.
"The fees will be what they are at the end of the job, dependent on what realisations there are.
"I suspect there will be minimal fees if any coming out of the football club itself.
"The aim is to save the football club. Our fees will come out of money that would otherwise have gone over to Hong Kong."

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/wigan-athletic-takeover-deal-doable-fortnight-2964950

Nixon article -

FRESH START Wigan’s potential new owners willing to MOVE stadium to Leigh’s rugby league ground from DW if takeover is sealed

WIGAN’S potential new owners are willing to move GROUND to play at Leigh's Rugby League stadium.

The American takeover pair Randy Frankel and Michael Kalt are in talks about the shock switch of 'home' as they try to get a deal done to rescue the club from administration.
The change of address from Wigan's old DW Stadium ground would need approval by the EFL.
[b]But it is already used by Manchester United in the WSL as well as Leigh in the rugby world./b]
This surprise idea has also been run past supporters groups and the local authorities and is now part of their plans for the future.
The group, advised and fronted by Frenchman Gauthier Ganaye, are unwilling to pay the £3 million asking price for the current stadium.
They have offered £500,001 for the football club and training ground.
But that was rejected by the administrators.
The admins are demanding the £3 million sum for the stadium to be paid too.
That figure covers their fees along with the creditors and legal costs.
Wigan rugby chief Ian Lenagan has been trying to buy the ground and become landlord rather than tenant and that is still in negotiation.
However the French-American team are unhappy with the rental terms he wants.
And they turned to Leigh's modern and compact ground as an alternative.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12616499/wigan-takeover-dw-stadium-leigh-rugby-league/

The idea seems to have split their fan base.



I voted in order to see what the current totals were (fwiw I voted 'no' for two reasons although I'm not a Wigan fan, one because I always believe Leigh has more of a natural affinity with Bolton and vis-versa and two this -

We are appalled by this tweet. This is not representative of our supporters. This account had already been blocked and reported several times by the club. We apologise for any distress caused by this social media post from someone claiming to be a Wigan Athletic supporter.

— Wigan Athletic (@LaticsOfficial) September 6, 2020

...many of the dead coming from Leigh and surrounding area.

Wigan Athletic fans: Would you continue to watch Latics at Leigh Sports Village? Please vote and RT, be interested to see how this goes. #wafc

— Paul Kendrick (@PKendrickWIG) September 8, 2020

Telephone Q&A With Gerlad Krasner Pt 2
Meeting Gerald Krasner – Tuesday 8th September 2020

The second telephone meeting with Administrator Gerald Krasner on Tuesday evening where there was an opportunity to put forward questions raised by supporters over recent events at the club. The call lasted 29 minutes.
This week was more a two-way affair than the previous ‘chat’ with questioning and an opportunity to ‘dig a little deeper’ for more in depth answers.

There were still a number of off the record answers, but I don’t feel that they took anything away from what can be reported.

The Fees that we’ve been taking? I want to make a couple of points, we haven’t drawn a penny in fees or disbursements as of today, the football club will not be paying our fees or disbursements and probably the legal fees, the only legal fees that I feel will have to go through the football club at this moment has got to be the fees to do with the appeal. I’m expecting the owners (Yeung) to pay the fees out of their entitlement, which they are not getting.
It’s been said previously that the football club will not be paying the administrators fees. They will come out the owners property companies. [I can only think that means the 'owners property companies that are part of the Administration along with the club - in which case it would mean the stadium, remaining training ground and chippy plus anything else I am unaware of - Sluffy] People still think that lawyers are going to get £1m+ out of the football club, but they’re not, the only fee that will come out of the football club is the EFL appeal. [If I'm correct in my assumption above then although the Administrator is no doubt telling the truth, most people would not understand that the stadium and the club are two separate entities and in their minds believe the stadium IS part of the club - Sluffy]

Sell On Clauses When we sell players it is usual to get a sell on clause, for example Gelhardt to Leeds has another half a million of future sell on money, strictly it is payable to the administrators, potentially there is £5.6m of add on fees, which is a lot of money, we won’t ever see £5.6m because you never get it all, but we should see a million of it. We have said to the bidders that if you are buying everything we need the first £250K and the rest is yours for £1. So it is not coming to us, the first £250K is coming to us and there is a reason for that.
*Note It was explained but with an off the record proviso at this moment.

Cedric Kipre The sale price? You think he’s worth more? It’s a different world to when you sold Dan Burn, you’d be disappointed at £2m, well I’ll tell you the market for him is not there, we’ve been around the market, we’ve tried to get competing bids but at the end of the day, that’s the best bid we could get.
It’s in our interest to sell the players for the best price, we have turned down so many offers, right from the beginning, the two kids, we turned down two offers on them before agreeing a price, we’re working through a strategy to get the wage bill right and get the football creditors right.
We’re not giving anybody away, if we get a good price we take it and if we need the money we take it.

The Debt We’re as good as there, we haven’t received all the money yet, but by the end of this week we should and as soon as we are I will put it out on the website.
We’ve taken on players on short term contracts, we wouldn’t have taken on players if we weren’t confident of starting the season and going forward.

The running costs, I’ve got them, they are way down, can’t give it you off the top of my head but the wages are down to £2.5m per year.

The US Bid – It hasn’t been rejected, we can’t accept a bid until we have a bid on the stadium, we are in communications still with the Americans.
I need £4 million, I value the stadium at £3m, Sharpeys at half a million, the training ground at half a million and then football club can go for £1.

Euxton we’ve made enquiries about development there and it’s not going to happen, the contract though is secret and cannot be divulged.

Running Costs The football wages are paid, we’ve paid for August, we’ve paid the deferrals and we’ve paid Championship rates for the ones that left. That’s where all the money that was realised has gone.
We have enough money to pay for the immediate future, nothing will stop us going to matches.

Admin Timescale It took me a year at Leeds to turn it round, but that wasn’t an insolvency, at Bournemouth it took longer than this, bear in mind we’ve been in two months and 9 days , that is not a long time, despite what the fans think.

New Bidders When I said I’ve got four bidders, I’ve still got four bidders, they’re just not the same bidders. Some of them are and some of them aren’t.
I was in London yesterday meeting with someone who had flown in specially to see me.

Tea Time I’m having Fish Pie for tea, just to let you know Dec.

The Move To Leigh It’s rubbish, the new owners are going to move us to Leigh? First of all I don’t know who the new owners are, there’s no way we’re going to be left with an empty stadium, so I’ve just said “who are the new owners”, I’m just telling you that this is not part of a game plan that we are involved in – and you can quote me on that.

https://progresswithunity.blogspot.com/2020/09/telephone-q-with-gerlad-krasner-pt-2.html?m=1

Their market value is on par with a can of Lynx Africa.

STATEMENT FROM THE JOINT ADMINISTRATORS (09.09.20)

The Joint Administrators recently met with representatives of the EFL for permission from them to start the season on 13 September 2020. We are informed that the board of the EFL are meeting later this week and one of the items is to consider this request. We have kept the EFL informed of the progress of selling the club and we are quietly optimistic that this permission will be given. An update will be given once the board of the EFL have written to us.

https://wiganathletic.com/news/2020/september/Statement-From-The-Joint-Administrators-09-09-20-/

Wigan. Wow. It just gets stranger. Simon Grayson about to join management team. Brought in by backroom staff AND admins. Full story online soon.

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) September 9, 2020

Wigan Athletic 'move to play at Leigh' rumour is hosed down

Administrators in charge of Wigan Athletic have eased fans fears the club may relocate to Leigh.

A report in The Sun suggested the American group fronted by Frenchman Gauthier Ganaye would want to play at the Sports Village to save on costs.
Co-administrator Paul Stanley said: "We've not had a bidder proposing moving the club to Leigh. It doesn't mean that someone won't make that offer - but why would we accept that?"
Such a fanciful and controversial move, while it would be cost-effective for the new owner, wouldn't make sense for the administrators, the council - which also owns the Sports Village - or DW stable-mates, Wigan Warriors.
It wouldn't raise enough to pay off the non-football creditors to ensure Latics aren't docked 15 points. And it would leave the administrators with an empty £3m-valued stadium which the Warriors are unlikely - or unable - to operate alone, given the high running costs.
The administrators - in charge of the club since July 1 - have been clear their preference is to sell Wigan Athletic with its three main assets: the DW Stadium - which they value at £3m - as well as the Christopher Park training base (£500,000) and the site of Sharpey's chippy (£500,000).
Stanley said they one bidder had even suggested playing home games on the road at different available grounds each week, which isn't allowed under EFL rules. Clubs exiting administration must have a tenancy agreement on a ground for 10 years (exceptions may be made for building work).
Co-administrator Gerald Krasner, who had previously dismissed the American bidders as 'not serious', was equally dismissive of the idea they may sell the club to an owner who planned to relocate Wigan Athletic to Leigh.
"It’s rubbish, the new owners are going to move us to Leigh?" he told supporter Barry Worthington, of Progress With Unity, who is holding a weekly update with him.
"There’s no way we’re going to be left with an empty stadium... this is not part of a game plan that we are involved in – and you can quote me on that."

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/wigan-athletic-move-play-leigh-rumour-hosed-down-2965993


The longer this goes on the less I can understand what's happening - and I could understand a great deal even at the start!

IF Nixon is to be believed (he earns his money for writing articles in the papers remember) a French bloke who was formerly the CEO at Barnsley is the front man for American money, that seems to be the only player in town (Plan B - and the more likely one being the Wigan Supporters in connection with others come together to form a sort of life raft to save the club albeit maybe as a phoenix one).

So I would have thought this French former EFL football club CEO would have known about the requirement of Wigan NEEDING a guaranteed venue to play at if they were to come out of administration. Clearly tossing in ideas to play at Leigh or some place else at the last minute doesn't meet that requirement.

I wasn't aware of this 10 year rule but then again I'm not a former EFL club CEO and not trying to buy a club out of admin either.

So if the situation is genuine he either did not know about this (and surely the Administrators would have already pointed this fact out to him in early talks?) or maybe the ploy has always been to get the golden share ownership of the club and relocate it someplace else in the country (Wimbledon tried to move to Dublin once remember before they ended up at MK). Perhaps this 10 year rule came in to stop such things happening like that again?

I can't understand therefore why they want the club in the middle of a pandemic, that clearly has no/insufficient revenue streams to make the club self sustainable, playing in a stadium that's too big for them/not negotiated a 10 year lease to play elsewhere, with no players, and now just four days from the start of the season, of which they have yet to get EFL approval or presumably past the EFL, FFP test?

It seems to me the EFL has accepted the Admins submission to them that they have got a firm buyer but the Admin have since confirmed there is currently no live bid on the table???

The club have signed 2/3 players on a month contract, so clearly the EFL sanctioned that and now there is news that the ADMIN have brought in a 'manager' to 'help'/'manage' the team - again indicating they expect to be starting the season - but I would imagine that any buyer of the club would want to pick their own manager?

The Admin have quite clearly stated they are not here to run a football club but on the face of it, it seems to me at least, that is exactly what they appear to be doing!

I can only think they are doing so until the Wigan supporters club have got all the 'ducks in a line' and with help from the council and rugby club, etc manage to buy the club and stadium somehow and fund it through the season and hopefully get to grips with it properly next summer?

Maybe I'm completely wrong.

As I say I haven't a clue - non of it makes any sense at all to me.

Wigan Supporters set up company -

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12856773

Two of the four Directors in talks with Admin -

Caroline and myself just concluded a positive meeting with the administration at the stadium we will give you honest feedback when we legally can all I can say is don't believe everything you read in the papers when facts are scarce rumours are strife

— Mick Wimsey (@MickWimsey) September 9, 2020

A bit of a stretch of my imagination probably but I wonder if this is one of the building blocks that has now been put in place to facilitate the ownership of the club to the supporters association if all else fails with other purchasers (are there really any serious ones circling the club anyway?)

Although it lists its purpose and objectives to simply be a fan based representation organisation, its 'powers' listed clearly go well be that limitation and doesn't seem to exclude it from owning the club as far as I could see.

If people recall the Bolton ST was/is a charity based non profit organisation and they had to set up a company at Companies House when they had grandiose ideas above their station when they thought they might have some bizarre chance of taking on the club from Anderson - Allanson set it up before his star plummeted.

Wigan Council is precluded in law to own the club and Wigan rugby don't want it, so maybe the idea is for somewhere for it to go if it needs a home in the not to distant future!

I'm not saying this WILL happen but it seems to allow it to if need be?

wont anyone still have to prove they have 4mil available to fund 2 seasons of operations?

Wake me up when something actually happens.

RangersDave wrote:wont anyone still have to prove they have 4mil available to fund 2 seasons of operations?

According to the EFL - Yes.

But the EFL, to be fair to them - and to the anger of nearly everyone else - have bent, twisted, interpreted, stretched their own rules, in order to keep clubs in the league - look at how they behaved with clubs like Bury when they had a takeover midseason with someone clearly with a dodgy record of liquidating business, or us starting the season in Admin with clearly not a definite buyer guaranteed.

Their Supporters club has £640k or so in the bank to run the club, the Admin say they, from player sales, have money to pay the player wages for a couple months (and to pay off the unsecured creditors at 25p in the £) and if others in some sort of partnership with them such as the Council/Wigan Rugby buy the ground and let them play there, then I reckon its possible for them to get through a season (note the salary cap for wages for that division is £2.5m but that doesn't mean they have to pay that amount, they could say play to their own wage cap of say £500k for instance.

There is a lot of if's and but's in there I know but if everyone is willing and the EFL agrees I think it is just about possible for them to survive a year and look for someone to sell the club on to thereafter.

I guess we will find out in the coming weeks one way or the other.

That Nixon story from yesterday -

SIMON GRAYSON is set for a shock return to management with crisis club Wigan Athletic.
Grayson will be brought in by the administrators to run the side and take the senior role currently filled by caretaker Leam Richardson.
The experienced boss will be drafted in to help the backroom team and should be in the dug-out for the opener at Ipswich on Sunday.
It is a remarkable move while the admins try to find a buyer but run into massive problems finding anyone to pick up the full £4million bill.
Grayson is happy to help after being out of work since a brief stint at Blackpool ended a year ago.
He has also worked at this level with Preston and been a success.
It will be an open-ended relationship with Grayson on a minimal salary but keen to get back into the game with no idea how long it will last.
Grayson is known to administrator Gerald Krasner but the idea to bring him in was also from Richardson who succeeded Paul Cook when he quit last month.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12624007/simon-grayson-return-management-wigan/

Seems he said NO to them!

Wigan. Now talking to John Sheridan about becoming new manager. Another day another drama. Currently at Waterford.

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) September 10, 2020

Also with the EFL kick off just days away...

Trying all over. Right back been in. But no joy landing a centre half. Totally bizarre. https://t.co/dmJxQrX8Zc

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) September 10, 2020

As I expected based on having the green light already given to sign players on a month contract -

Statement from Gerald Krasner on behalf of the Joint Administrators.

"In a conversation with the EFL on Thursday night I have been verbally informed that we have permission to start the season under the administration."#wafc

— Wigan Athletic (@LaticsOfficial) September 11, 2020