Wigan in Administration

wanderlust wrote:
Nice of you to ask. Pointless having a conversation based on declared losses though isn't it?
Meaningless as Trump's tax advisors will tell you.

Nothing to do with Trump. Anybody with a decent understanding of finance should be able to take a quick look at the Vince situation and make some intelligent observations. And because Vince threatened to put BWFC into liquidation, it shouldn't be too much trouble.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:The Amos situation is interesting, Sluffy, but it is a bit of a diversion.

Presumably the person who signed it off was persuaded that Amos was worth the money and could be sold on at a profit as Madine subsequently was. It was poor judgement and may well have taken place when Phil Gartside was very ill.

Its not hard to imagine how frustrating Ken Anderson must have found it having to pay out unaffordable amounts to players whilst being under pressure to pay long overdue suppliers with money he didn't have. If Amos wouldn't compromise and he wouldn't, the best thing was to get him out to another club on loan and at least try to get some contribution to his wages. That's what he did.

But the position the board faced in 2015 was that, without someone to replace Eddie's funding, they were staring into the abyss. Battening down the hatches wasn't an option. Wage costs had been reduced by a third but the club could still not have paid its way if all its players played for free.

Eddie would do what he could to help a takeover but he was not making any kind of comeback. You must try to understand that.

Yes I accept/understand/believe or any other word that best fits, that Eddie wanted out of the game.

I don't even wish to make an issue of it as such - although I've clearly written a lot on it but that's simply because I can't understand the plan he had to do that?

It's more me puzzling over something than wanting to make a big issue out of it.

As I've said a few times I simply can not square the circle from what was intended (Eddie stepping away) to what went on to happen (Eddie still very much involved because his money was still needed and he didn't say no, sorry, no more of it!).

I'm also more than a bit sceptical that a player signed for free would appreciate in value in the transfer market to any great degree by the next available transfer window some six months later when the club must have already forecast that it could not go even four months further from the day he was signed before they ran out of money to pay HMRC!  

Indeed the club had to take on loans of £10m just to get through to the following summers transfer window and even coveted goal scores such as Madine were only bringing £6m  when keepers were always considered to be of significantly less value to a team.

As I keep saying, such things are just little puzzles for me to play with, my aim isn't to discredit or undermine anyone, simply to try and fathom out for myself what was going on.

No harm or disrespect intended to anyone ever, from me at least.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:
Nothing to do with Trump. Anybody with a decent understanding of finance should be able to take a quick look at the Vince situation and make some intelligent observations. And because Vince threatened to put BWFC into liquidation, it shouldn't be too much trouble.

Anyone with a decent understanding of business finance would recognise that tax dodger Trump was an analogy describing the value of declared P & L in assessing what is really going on in the business i.e. not much when so many other factors are at play.

Sluffy wrote:

Yes I accept/understand/believe or any other word that best fits, that Eddie wanted out of the game.

I don't even wish to make an issue of it as such - although I've clearly written a lot on it but that's simply because I can't understand the plan he had to do that?

It's more me puzzling over something than wanting to make a big issue out of it.

As I've said a few times I simply can not square the circle from what was intended (Eddie stepping away) to what went on to happen (Eddie still very much involved because his money was still needed and he didn't say no, sorry, no more of it!).

I'm also more than a bit sceptical that a player signed for free would appreciate in value in the transfer market to any great degree by the next available transfer window some six months later when the club must have already forecast that it could not go even four months further from the day he was signed before they ran out of money to pay HMRC!  

Indeed the club had to take on loans of £10m just to get through to the following summers transfer window and even coveted goal scores such as Madine were only bringing £6m  when keepers were always considered to be of significantly less value to a team.

As I keep saying, such things are just little puzzles for me to play with, my aim isn't to discredit or undermine anyone, simply to try and fathom out for myself what was going on.

No harm or disrespect intended to anyone ever, from me at least.

No disrespect intended ever of you from me, Sluffy, but I cannot say that I respect the blind and malicious prejudice that has been prevalent in the reporting of the financial affairs of Bolton Wanderers for many a year or the abominable hostility it helped spawn.

I'm confident that Eddie did 'the right thing' in March 2016 and have no difficulty in understanding his reasoning. It was never going to be plain sailing and there was always going to be one top dog in the quasi partnership that took over. They'd have to sort that out between themselves but you are quite correct in saying that it provided the bridge to the ownership the club has now and it kept devoted employees of Bolton Wanderers in their jobs much longer than would otherwise have been the case.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:No disrespect intended ever of you from me, Sluffy, but I cannot say that I respect the blind and malicious prejudice that has been prevalent in the reporting of the financial affairs of Bolton Wanderers for many a year or the abominable hostility it helped spawn.

I'm confident that Eddie did 'the right thing' in March 2016 and have no difficulty in understanding his reasoning. It was never going to be plain sailing and there was always going to be one top dog in the quasi partnership that took over. They'd have to sort that out between themselves but you are quite correct in saying that it provided the bridge to the ownership the club has now and it kept devoted employees of Bolton Wanderers in their jobs much longer than would otherwise have been the case.

Thanks Bob, I've known from your kindness in helping me over the last year or two that you've always given me respect even when at times we diverged in our views but we both have been of the same mind that key 'influencers' (as the say in social media speak) such as Iles/Bonnar and the ST have stirred the pot for their own reasons a brewed a powerful toxicity at times that was more towards their own agendas than what was the true case of events - and many/virtually all, bought into it in some degree or other - herd mentality - follow the sheppard (Marc Iles) sort of thing I suppose.

Any way all the key players have gone, Iles is still here but has had his wings clipped and he's just seen the former office boy, who no doubt he used to get him to make him a cuppa and wash his cup afterwards for him, become his new editor!

I don't know if Iles thinks about things but I know if it was me who had basically been in the same job for the last 17 years and just seen the office boy rise to the top job whilst I'd basically stagnated in all that time, I'd be evaluating if I'd gone badly wrong somewhere along the line?

Anyway back to the original thread -

EXCLUSIVE – Wigan’s mystery Spanish takeover is being fronted by former advertising chief Andy Clilverd.

Clilverd is the owner of Signature Sport* who have been looking for a football club to buy for the past three years.

The Bristol-based businessmen has previous experience working in marketing and on the Rugby World Cup but running Wigan would be the biggest task of his career.

Clilverd was at Wigan’s ground yesterday (Monday) as he finalised the deal to be put to the administrators and the details demanded by the EFL.

The identity of the ‘money man’ in Spain has yet to be confirmed but sources reveal it is former Albacete owner Jesus Garrido Cristo.

Clilverd found a previous buyer for Wigan two years ago before they were taken over by the Hong Kong group who eventually left them in administration.

However at the time Clilverd brought Leganes owner Felipe Moreno to the table but that deal did not progress.

Clilverd advertises his services by saying he Is looking to match his backer with ‘a League One or Two club looking for a prudent investor.’**

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6118601/transfer-news-live-benrahma-west-ham-messi-suarez-barcelona/

* Signature Sport is owned by him and his wife and had up to 28th Feb, 2019 assets of £5k and liabilities of £23k

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10596366/filing-history

Hardly a success it seems?

** Director
Signature Sport
Feb 2017 - Present 3 years 9 months

I am currently working with an experienced football investor who is looking for opportunities in EFL Leagues 1 and 2; it would be their first foray into the UK. They have a very good track record in Europe and their strategy is financially prudent and sustainable. If you are looking for sound investment, please contact me, if you are after a 'sugar daddy' don't bother.
andy@signaturesport.co.uk

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/andy-clilverd-87107413

Fwiw this is an article that was published as recently as March this year - hardly reads as though he's going to be a big player in a take over does it??

More like a Dean Holdsworth I suspect!

Link to article -

Grassroots sport in the current climate

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/grassroots-sport-current-climate-andy-clilverd?articleId=6646750613852033025#comments-6646750613852033025&trk=public_profile_article_view

I'd wager Lazlo Hamer had a more impressive CV and balance sheet. Remember him, Sluffy? He used to sell burgers and hotdogs outside Burnden Park and a few other select venues around the borough.

I don't know the name but I seem to remember burger sellers outside the ground, but I didn't use them myself so wouldn't know his name or recognise him at other locations around the town but from the little bit I seemed to have gleamed on Clilverd he could possibly be in the same wealth bracket as Mr Hamer though.

Sluffy wrote:I don't know the name but I seem to remember burger sellers outside the ground, but I didn't use them myself so wouldn't know his name or recognise him at other locations around the town but from the little bit I seemed to have gleamed on Clilverd he could possibly be in the same wealth bracket as Mr Hamer though.

Quite well-known around the borough was Lazlo but there do seem to be one or two Clilverd types around footie clubs.

Had a quiet chuckle to myself when I read:

‘a League One or Two club looking for a prudent investor.’


Reminded me of a couple of lines from a Five Penny Piece song:


Without a doubt, they'll tell you owt
But they must think that we know nowt


Five Penny Piece was a Lancashire folk group. A bit like the Houghton Weavers, but with a nice thread of humour running through their songs.

Yes I remember the Five Penny Piece, I used to like stuff like this, Bernard Wriggly, The Spinners, Mike Harding and the Weavers and a little bit later Hovis Presley.

Thought you might like this one of Hovis if you haven't heard it before -

Thanks Sluffy. I don't remember Hovis Presley but I like the name. I'll listen to it later.

You'll probably remember that it was when Tony Berry died that Rammy announced his sad prognosis on Nuts. Rammy had been at Thornleigh with Tony.

The Houghton Weavers, Norman Prince, also went to Thornleigh and, though the group wasn't formed until 1975, Norman used to be part of a group that played at the Cattle Market pub in Bolton quite a few years before that. I think there was another member of that group that joined with Norman to form the Westhoughton Weavers in 1975. It might have been Tony but I'm not sure.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Thanks Sluffy. I don't remember Hovis Presley but I like the name. I'll listen to it later.

You'll probably remember that it was when Tony Berry died that Rammy announced his sad prognosis on Nuts. Rammy had been at Thornleigh with Tony.

The Houghton Weavers, Norman Prince, also went to Thornleigh and, though the group wasn't formed until 1975, Norman used to be part of a group that played at the Cattle Market pub in Bolton quite a few years before that. I think there was another member of that group that joined with Norman to form the Westhoughton Weavers in 1975. It might have been Tony but I'm not sure.

I can't remember if I mentioned it at the time but I used to work with Tony's mother in law (the original one as I think he later remarried iirc) and what a miserable and sour woman she was.  Her name was Joan but everyone I knew her referred to her as 'Joan the moan', so clearly my view of her matched others!

I hope Tony got on with her better than the rest of us did!

Sluffy wrote:

I can't remember if I mentioned it at the time but I used to work with Tony's mother in law (the original one as I think he later remarried iirc) and what a miserable and sour woman she was.  Her name was Joan but everyone I knew her referred to her as 'Joan the moan', so clearly my view of her matched others!

I hope Tony got on with her better than the rest of us did!

Pleased to say that my mother-in-law was very nice. She went to Wolfenden Street school.

But here's a bit of Ernie K Doe for Joan the moan:


Love that New Orleans sound

Sluffy wrote:Yes I remember the Five Penny Piece, I used to like stuff like this, Bernard Wriggly, The Spinners, Mike Harding and the Weavers and a little bit later Hovis Presley.

Thought you might like this one of Hovis if you haven't heard it before -

Hovis (Richard) was a friend of mine and he was a lovely guy who sadly suffered from depression. Very talented and I saw him many times including at the Edinburgh festival. Gutted when we lost him.

wanderlust wrote:
Hovis (Richard) was a friend of mine and he was a lovely guy who sadly suffered from depression. Very talented and I saw him many times including at the Edinburgh festival. Gutted when we lost him.

I did like it Sluffy. Like you say talented and original.

New director appointed at AFC Wigan

15 Oct 2020 Appointment of Mrs Victoria Condratova as a director on 15 October 2020

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12926841/officers

Seems to be an accountant from this bio I found of her -



VICTORIA CONDRATOVA
Adbell Advisory Ltd (UK)
Presentation topic:
Using UK companies for international trading in the world of increasing requirements for transparency and exchange of information.
Moldovan born Victoria graduated as an economist from the Academy of Economic Studies in Chisinau. She then qualified as a Chartered Certified Accountant and a Chartered Tax Advisor in the UK, also holding certificates in Principles of International Taxation and EU Direct Tax.

She has more than 16 years of experience in the accountancy profession and has worked in both industry and practice, being a director of a UK Chartered Accountancy firm for 6 years.

Ex-Director in Charge of EMEA region of JHI, international association of accountants and tax advisors, Victoria organised a number of tax conferences.

Personal quote: “When I give you my time I am giving you a portion of my life, therefore I do my best for you so as not to feel that my life is wasted”

https://intax-group.com/en/conferences/intax-expo-russia-2016/speakers.html

Personal quote: “When I give you my time I am giving you a portion of my life, therefore I do my best for you so as not to feel that my life is wasted”
------------

Cringey. Sounds more like someone applying for an internship. She'll be "taking it to the next level" next.

Things amiss with the Spanish bid perhaps?

Wigan. Darren Royle putting a bidding team together if the Spanish group fail. Know more on Spanish details once go through EFL test. And where supporters money fits in.

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) October 25, 2020

That’s already been mentioned. https://t.co/sByVJMfW0X

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) October 26, 2020

Something certainly doesn't sound right to me with this prospective takeover...

Wigan. Major part of these takeover talks will be the money raised by fans and others a couple of months ago. What do they get in return if it is used to buy club? And why is it needed?

— Alan Nixon (@reluctantnicko) October 29, 2020

Gerald Krasner provides update on Wigan Athletic takeover

Gerald Krasner says he is unconcerned at the length of time the EFL are taking to make a decision on the takeover of Wigan Athletic.

It’s almost a month since the offer from a Spanish bidder was accepted, with Krasner saying the matter would be sorted by the end of October.
The EFL have been taking their time conducting their due diligence, leading to speculation some potential problems had been unearthed.

“I’ve not heard anything back yet,” said Krasner. “But I presume they will talk to us when they are ready to talk about it. And I think the EFL have got a number of major problems at the moment, as well as Wigan.

“We are still on talking terms with the bidders. But I’m not going into the details of what those discussions have entailed.”

Wigan Today understands the takeover – which initially was greatly welcomed among the Latics fanbase – may not be the beacon of hope once thought.

Staff are believed to have been informed of a proposed 30 per cent cut in their wages, with a huge question mark over the long-term future of the club’s Academy.

It’s also not clear how much – if any – involvement the Supporters Club would have, despite having raised around £800,000 to save the club.

When asked whether it was his job to look after the best interests of the club or the creditors, Krasner replied: “I have a duty to sell the football club for the best possible price, and that’s what we’ve done. I’m not a moralist.”

It’s understood a couple of other groups – one involving former executive chairman Darren Royle – are waiting in the wings to pounce if the EFL flags up an issue.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/gerald-krasner-provides-update-wigan-athletic-takeover-3017369

Thursday is D-Day for Wigan Athletic

Thursday looks set to be a potentially pivotal day in the history of Wigan Athletic, as the EFL sits down with the administrators, the Supporters Club and the Spanish bidders who are hoping to see their takeover rubber-stamped.

The Spanish consortium, fronted by London-based Jose Miguel Garrido Cristo, saw their offer accepted by Begbies Traynor on September 30.

The potential new owners have spent the last month getting all the necessary information over to the EFL to satisfy the infamous Owners and Directors’ Test.

The EFL received all of the paperwork at the end of last week, although obviously the governing body has had other pressing matters to contend with, in the aftermath of the Covid-19 pandemic.

The meeting, set to start at 2pm, will include the unnamed Spanish duo behind the takeover, who will speak on Zoom from their homeland via a translator.

Sources close to the group say they are confident the deal will be given the green light, and that the necessary funds are ready to be transferred at the click of a mouse.

The Spanish bidders have been tight-lipped on their plans up to this point, due to the non-disclosure agreements involved.

But it’s understood they plan on using a similar model used on clubs in their homeland, which have produced six promotions, and two relegations, in the last decade.

They will not be throwing money at a quick-fix, but will cut their cloth accordingly to ensure a solid financial base from which to build.

The investors have been looking to take over a club in England for the last four years, but only now have found one to tick all four of their criteria.

Those are believed to be a club with a history – including the famous 2013 FA Cup triumph – one with sufficiently strong infrastructure, positioned in League One, and with a successful Academy.

A flourishing Academy was always seen as being central to the club's future in the post-Whelan era - even more so given the precarious economic times - but would require continued investment.

It’s also understood the investors are looking at the club as a project that could last ‘15-20-25 years’, which would be a breath of fresh air on the back of the carnage created by IEC and NLF which led to administration on July 1.

The Spaniards say they remain open to the involvement of the Supporters Club – who have raised around £800,000 to save the club – although an agreement has not been reached as yet.

Depending on the outcome of Thursday’s hearing, a couple of other parties remain in the wings for the chance to pounce – one of them believed to involve former executive chairman Darren Royle.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/thursday-d-day-wigan-athletic-3018265?itm_source=parsely-api