Bolton's Finances / Accounts for year ending 30th June 2021 and everything else since.

"Don't mention the moolah. I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it."

FV have got away with it for months but they are due to come clean on their accounts (already 12 months out of date) by close of play today. I wonder if they will.

Ipswich Town filed - operating loss of just short of £8m

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Sluffy wrote:Ipswich Town filed - operating loss of just short of £8m

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Thanks Sluffy. That makes FV last to file in League 1. 

Did you notice who signed off the Ipswich accounts? A guy who was only appointed on 16 May 2022 whose appointment wasn’t disclosed until Yesterday.

You could be forgiven for thinking that nobody else fancied the task.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was summat creepy going on at Crawley either. Taken over by a couple of crypto currency coves from across the pond iirc.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Ipswich Town filed - operating loss of just short of £8m

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Thanks Sluffy. That makes FV last to file in League 1. 

Did you notice who signed off the Ipswich accounts? A guy who was only appointed on 16 May 2022 whose appointment wasn’t disclosed until Yesterday.

You could be forgiven for thinking that nobody else fancied the task.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was summat creepy going on at Crawley either. Taken over by a couple of crypto currency chappies from across the pond iirc.

Thanks Bob, no I didn't in the case of Ipswich and yes I did in respect of the owners of Crawley.

What I tend to do is to check in with our old friend Kieran Maguire's Twitter account every so often (not that I am a fan of his as you know) but I use him as a shortcut to see what is currently in the news on football clubs finances.

Not that I'm particularly interested but today's news from him is that WBA gave a £5m loan to the clubs owner (I think to prop up his business based in Shanghai, during Covid?).

Seems the clubs CEO didn't know about it(?) or at least wanted to keep it quiet!

Accounts for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] owners Football Ventures (Whites) Limited due today at Companies House. Was told earlier in the week that they were imminent... So watch this space, I suppose.

— Marc Iles (@MarcIles) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Do you think Iles is following Nuts? I do. I’ve thought that for a long time. He still not learned much mind you. Battersby sounds like somebody without much commercial savvy.
But a bit more than Iles, the ST and Professor Claptrap.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:Do you think Iles is following Nuts? I do. I’ve thought that for a long time. He still not learned much mind you. Battersby sounds like somebody without much commercial savvy.
But a bit more than Iles, the ST and Professor Claptrap.

Iles seems to be a bit odd to me - and I don't mean that in a nasty way.

He posted a couple of years ago that he thinks 'forums' like ours are miles out of date, so he doesn't bother with them - fair enough if that's his opinion - but he clearly knows the bloke behind the Burnden Aces site (who also runs the BWFC Stats twitter account) and he retweets both at the drop of a hat - so he clearly follows such sites (and the people) he likes - at least publicly.

As his job is to write about BWFC it would be unthinkable to me if he didn't at least keep tabs on fans opinions on ALL forms of social media - which clearly include forums.

I'm not saying Nuts would be amongst his top 10 sites to follow but I would certainly say (irrespective if you like their behaviours or not) that WandersWays should be - and he goes out of his way to show them no recognition at all!

How can he promote Burnden Aces yet pretend ww doesn't even exist???

As for Nuts - and I'm not giving you any false praise - there is only you who I've ever stumbled across in the whole of social media who has by far the best understanding understanding of the financial goings on at BWFC/Football Ventures.

Iles is clearly clueless in these matters - he was totally reliant on the utterly biased views of the ST's Bower to begin with, until he disappeared off the scene, and seems to have since relied totally on Battersby who no doubt is a nice enough bloke and has years of accounting experience but can't seem to see the wider picture (and implications) that you can.

If I were Iles, I'd follow Nuts (even join incognito if need be) if for no other reason just to be able to ask you questions at to what's going on financially.

Ok, accounts and finances are not really his job and may not even interest him BUT it has been the main story of the club for at least the last decade and more - and to state the obvious, if we had gone bust - and we nearly damn well did - there would be no BWFC to talk about (unless we started again as a Phoenix club in a division or three below Atherton Colls)!

I'm surprised Iles has no contacts at the paper (is there no business editor perhaps) who could give him simplified explanations of the accounts - and if there isn't why isn't he approaching the likes of Maguire for help and advice to understand things (although Maguire isn't as good he thinks he is as evidenced with his hatred of Anderson not funding the club from his own personal pocket).

So in summary I don't think Iles follows us, he's probably been told something from inside the club about the accounts being published and my guess would be that would probably have come from the bloke that runs the clubs website/twitter account and who normally links them both to a copy of the published accounts when they become public at Companies House.

I think most people, let alone Iles, still can't grasp that the club is a BUSINESS first and foremost and if it fails to run as a business, then sooner or later it will have severe consequences on the pitch.  Most people seem to think the football side is the 'be all and end all' of what everything is about.

I guess though as long as someone turns up in the nick of time to save the club - like what seems to be happening at Derby right now - then maybe they are right in their thinking!

Unless of course you were a Bury fan...

When you two do start on about the accounts can you make it as simple as possible to follow for us morons please?

Norpig wrote:When you two do start on about the accounts can you make it as simple as possible to follow for us morons please?

If its simple you want, you might be better sticking to the Beeno, Mr Pig.

It makes sense to Professor Claptrap and Baroness Thingywotsername!

Iles probably isn't following Nuts personally, Sluffy, but I think somebody is watching and prompting Iles. Someone at the club? Probably not but it could be. More likely one of his acolytes imo.

FV have not filed accounts for any of the three companies involved and, as there are financial penalties for each one of them, its not for no reason.

Norpig wrote:When you two do start on about the accounts can you make it as simple as possible to follow for us morons please?

I do try to keep things simple as I know how to.

The thing is that if people know little to nothing on the subject that it is very hard to keep things simple - as you have to explain literally everything, every time you make a new post.

I will try my best though.

Sluffy wrote:

I do try to keep things simple as I know how to.

The thing is that if people know little to nothing on the subject that it is very hard to keep things simple - as you have to explain literally everything, every time you make a new post.

I will try my best though.

Thanks Sluffy, at least one of you had a sensible answer.

Norpig wrote:
Thanks Sluffy, at least one of you had a sensible answer.

So you didn’t find my helpful suggestion helpful then?

If you want to understand anything properly you might have to concentrate. The Beeno’s there for simple folk who want simple answers.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:

Norpig wrote:
Thanks Sluffy, at least one of you had a sensible answer.

So you didn’t find my helpful suggestion helpful then?

If you want to understand anything properly you might have to concentrate. The Beeno’s there for simple folk who want simple answers.

Be fair Bob, Norpig asked 'us' if we could simplify what 'we' say - obviously meaning that he wants to understand 'our' views, which I would like to think are a step up on Iles'es who freely admits to knowing nothing much on financial matters.

If it helps, just post as you normally do and leave it to me to try and simplify to Norpig (or anyone else) who may not be following your analysis of the accounts.

I think that is a fair solution for everyone?

Hope so anyway.

If you can also stop Bob being an arsehole that would help as well Sluffy.

Norpig wrote:If you can also stop Bob being an arsehole that would help as well Sluffy.

Don’t try flattery on me, Mr Pig. I haven’t got where I am today by falling for flattery.

Norpig wrote:If you can also stop Bob being an arsehole that would help as well Sluffy.

I'll do that if you can manage to keep Wanderlust from being one in the future.

Do we have a deal???

Sluffy wrote:

Be fair Bob, Norpig asked 'us' if we could simplify what 'we' say - obviously meaning that he wants to understand 'our' views, which I would like to think are a step up on Iles'es who freely admits to knowing nothing much on financial matters.

If it helps, just post as you normally do and leave it to me to try and simplify to Norpig (or anyone else) who may not be following your analysis of the accounts.

I think that is a fair solution for everyone?

Hope so anyway.

There are no accounts to analyse Sluffy. That's just one of the problems.

The accounts are a tool to help understand what's going on with the 'moolah' and FV aren't saying despite the financial penalties for breaking company law.

A little learning is a dangerous thing, so they say, but If Norpig genuinely wants to understand balance sheets he'll have to put some effort in like Sam Allardyce did with Peter Cowgill.

Ten Bobsworth wrote:There are no accounts to analyse Sluffy. That's just one of the problems.

The accounts are a tool to help understand what's going on with the 'moolah' and FV aren't saying despite the financial penalties for breaking company law.

A little learning is a dangerous thing, so they say, but If Norpig genuinely wants to understand balance sheets he'll have to put some effort in like Sam Allardyce did with Peter Cowgill.

Thanks Bob.

You are right, there are no accounts AND there are penalties for late submissions which these will be.

However the fine is relatively tiny...

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...and I'm not even sure if they are actually chased up, particularly if they are just a few days late or so?

It could be that CH have received them in time but they simply have yet to be published maybe?

However your main point stands, namely that it's inconceivable the accounts haven't been finalised by now, so why wait to the last possible moment to file them?

Particularly if all is well in them?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - I can think of one such person who used to scream constantly on here about Anderson raping and pillaging the club to enrich himself because (based on his 'little knowledge' of accountancy).  

He had thought Mr No Ken Do had plundered £168m from the club - which considering it was over £200m in DEBT at the time - defied even basic common sense let alone any 'little knowledge' whatsoever to be able to read the books correctly!!!

I'm sure therefore that Norpig certainly doesn't want to embarrass himself in a similar way in intending by 'seeking a little knowledge' of accountancy as such but rather looks to us for a simplified and easier understanding of what the accounts says.

To be fair to Norpig (and others) you and I have both expressed our regrets often that more Bolton fans don't show any interest whatsoever in how the company behind the club runs - so surely we should be encouraging Norpig et al and helping them understand as best we can how it does - and not fob off such requests to us for help?

Least that's the way I see it.

I'm happy to do this the best I can - and I know Norpig (and others) haven't been the most welcoming to you on here - so I wouldn't expect you to go to much (if any) trouble accordingly, so I'm more than happy to simplify for everyone what I can from my own knowledge and from what I'm understanding from your analysis of the accounts also.

I would see that as a win/win for everyone - in that we get the benefit of your insights of what is going on - and the rest of us can understand them and ask questions of me to help them with any queries they may have, whilst I get to personally understand better what you say by writing out the 'proof' so others can follow things.

The last bit in regards to me - what I mean there is that over the years I've found I had 'understood' things but something latter happened to prove that I hadn't - or at least not fully.

I developed a habit of writing down my thoughts of what I'd 'understood' and found by doing so that sometimes/often I would find gaps in my knowledge, or had made false assumptions, or a whole series of other things.  By doing so I self analysed my own knowledge on the subject if you will and became better at identifying weaknesses in what I thought I had known which allowed me to think deeper into the issues - and grasp them much better.

I'm not committing to teaching the whole forum basic accountancy but I will try my best to hopefully help people get a little better at seeing the financial picture at least in the same way as I am understanding it to be.

Who knows, some of the questions I might be asked my well make me rethink my whole standpoint on the matter - I'm certainly not afraid to admit to being wrong or learn from others.

Isn't that what learning is all about anyway?

Anyway as you say none of this can be done without the accounts being published - which hopefully will be soon now!

Thanks Sluffy.

The penalties are comparatively small at the basic level but they do ratchet up for multiple and repeat offences and length of delays.

Irrespective of the level of fines though, compliance with the law is a matter of ethics and integrity. There may be other considerations but it looks very much like FV have been claiming that the delays have been COVID-related when it seems highly unlikely that that is true. So why do it?

My apologies to Norpig if he thought I was lampooning him. I wasn't. It was directed at the Beeno and those people, who should know better, falling for its inadequate coverage of BWFC finances.

Sadly it has been a feature of the Beeno for many years and still continues today.