Wanderers Bond

Stop being so negative sluffy. Even if I lose all my money I'll still have a scarf, badge and membership card.

I've copied this from the WanderersWays thread - with thanks to 'kobeer'

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Seems if you read the small print FV are hoping for at least £6m more from the original offer of bonds worth £3.5m - which will be used (or so I interpret it) - as a transfer kitty!

It also reads to me that the £3.5m is really urgently need for the pitch replacement (have FV not got that financially covered already?).

Not sure if they get £9.5m plus and spend it the pitch, a a new screen and a replacement for Kachunga how they will be able to pay the money back when it is due unless we somehow manage to be in the PL by then or FV sells us to someone with much deeper pockets.

Little wonder they are flagging this up as a 'high risk investment'!

Maybe it will come up trumps but I won't be taking the risk.

Good luck to those who do - but remember the phrase 'high risk' when you are.

This hit my inbox the other day

Wanderers Bond

Subsequent to the announcement of the Wanderers Bond on Thursday 11 May, we have held discussions with the club regarding entry level funding.

We want the bond to be as inclusive as possible so are looking at an option that would facilitate involvement via the Supporters’ Trust.

With this in mind, we would like to establish the level of interest before developing any such scheme in more detail and to ask members to have their input by completing the short survey on the link below.

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Individual involvement in the bond scheme is available as published at an entry level of £500 and this proposal would be in addition to the original scheme as detailed on the Tifosy website on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We would also highlight the comment on the Tifosy website as follows:

“Don’t invest unless you’re prepared to lose all the money you invest. This is a high-risk investment and you are unlikely to be protected if something goes wrong”

The bottom line on any type of investment scheme like this is to take independent financial advice if you have any reservations.

Thank you for your support!

Natasha Whittam wrote:Stop being so negative sluffy. Even if I lose all my money I'll still have a scarf, badge and membership card.

So you will.

And if you can afford to lose your money, then why not enjoy the ride anyway.

My negativity is really aimed towards those who may not afford to lose their stake and only considering taking a punt because of their emotional attachment to the club.

If you can afford to do it - and want to - then do it.

But if you can't really afford to, then think with your head and not your heart - is really all that I am saying.

Sluffy wrote:

So you will.

And if you can afford to lose your money, then why not enjoy the ride anyway.

My negativity is really aimed towards those who may not afford to lose their stake and only considering taking a punt because of their emotional attachment to the club.

If you can afford to do it - and want to - then do it.

But if you can't really afford to, then think with your head and not your heart - is really all that I am saying.

It should go without saying but if you spend money you've borrowed, you need to earn enough to pay the interest and repay the debt, unless, of course, you just keep borrowing more and more and more.

FV has operated for nearly four years now and lost money in all three years where the accounts have been disclosed. That is not sustainable.

But lets look further back. How many times in this century has BWFC made a profit? The last time was in 2006 but it was tiny and barely scratched the surface of prior year losses. It might have done so in 2018 when Ken Anderson got Cardiff City to pay £6million for Gary Madine but it wasn't  enough to stave off the subsequent financial crisis that could have resulted in the end of BWFC.

If somebody is offering you twice the going rate of interest you would do well to wonder why unless you don't mind giving your savings away.

I wonder how much of this money is from typical fans and how much has been invested by people with serious money? Not sure i could risk it to be honest.

I actually nearly posted something similar yesterday but thought it best to keep my thoughts to myself but now you've mentioned it...

The bond is not guaranteed meaning you are taking a risk.

I think I can safely say that because all the adverts about the bond include a warning!

The gamble if you will is that the bond issuer - which I assume is either FV or FVWL Football Ltd (the club) is able to pay you in full on the settlement date.

So you may have full confidence in Sharon meeting that pledge - but what happens if she sells FV/FVWLFL to someone else before the settlement date to say the likes of a Bassini or Ken Anderson for example!

Would you still be as confident?

Therefore there is clearly a risk involved - a gamble shall we say.

But Sharon and the rest of FV don't like gambling and have banned it from the stadium have they not.

There seems to be something of a double standard going on here to my mind.

I've no reason to believe everything is completely legit and above board and everyone will get their money when it is due but I can't see FV generating profits from the business sufficient to do so within the time span and suspect another bond (or something similar) will have to be launched in order for Peter to pay Paul - if you see what I mean.

Not for me though thank you - I'm out.

FV are issuing bonds to a large number of trusting folk with little or no financial acumen and with no means of knowing where the money is going to come from to repay the debt or fund the interest.

Sharon has made it clear that she only intended to stay for 3 to 5 years and nearly four years of those have gone already. Or to put it another way she doesn't intend to stick around to see what happens.

I'm sorry but it doesn't sit right at all with me. Lady Bobsworth and I will continue to support Lifeline though.

I'm a bit out of my depth with the knowledge about bonds but I wonder if this may be one of the scenario's that could play out.

I assume Tifosy (the company being used to buy the Bolton bond from) will be shown in FV's accounts as an unsecured creditor for the £3.5m (or whatever is the final total the bond raises).

When the due date arrives and say FV have insufficient funds to settle then they either have to raise money in order to do so by other means (take on a loan or issue another bond or whatever) or - and this is the bit that I'm getting to - not pay out (or offer a percentage of the initial money invested as settlement - a bit like the unsecured creditors of the Administration only got 35p in the £) OR agree with Tifosy to extended the length of the bond.

I don't know enough to know if that is possible or not?  I somehow suspect it isn't?

What I'm thinking is that it might end up like the PBP loan, where the money that is owed (£6m) is still outstanding several years now since the due by date but is still accruing interest.

In other words you can't get your original stake money back but you still are receiving interest from it.

If that isn't an option, then presumably Tifosy can only retrieve the bond holders stake money by going to court on a breech of contract - and force them into Administration?

I guess at the end of the day the worse that can happen is that the bond is deemed a 'footballing debt' and the whoever buys FV out of presumably Administration, will have to pay Tifosy 25% as an unsecured creditor (35% if settled after two years)?

On the other hand however FV might be sold to some rich new owner who is fully aware of the Tifosy bond of £3.5m and who has budgeted for the bond to be settled in full on the due date.

All in all, if you want to go for the bond then that is up to you but there is a risk to the investment (that's why it is being said on all their adverts for the bond) and you really should take independent financial advise before doing so.

Best of luck to anyone that does but it is not for me.

I honestly don't have a clue what this is all about. 

It's basically like getting the buckets out but trying to make it sound special. 

Next they'll be selling NFTs.

Is this where the transfer kitty is coming from?

Yes

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes

Possibly I think is more nearer the mark.

As far as I understood it the initial £3.5m was in order to tart up the stadium and training ground

Anything raised by the bond above and beyond that is worded somewhat loosely but could be interpreted to be spent on transfer and wages.

If you fast forward this YouTube video to 2mins 10 secs, Neil Hart lists (in priority order?) what the money is for namely, drainage at the training ground, the Fan Zone, and improving the wifi at the stadium.

Sluffy wrote:



Possibly I think is more nearer the mark.

As far as I understood it the initial £3.5m was in order to tart up the stadium and training ground

Anything raised by the bond above and beyond that is worded somewhat loosely but could be interpreted to be spent on transfer and wages.

If you fast forward this YouTube video to 2mins 10 secs, Neil Hart lists (in priority order?) what the money is for namely, drainage at the training ground, the Fan Zone, and improving the wifi at the stadium.

If it were who or what is funding this year's operating losses, next years operating losses or any of the following four years operating losses?

Or as Len Barry might put it:

Its so easy, like takin candy from a baby

I’ve donated.

BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’ve donated.

Donated or invested?

Donated - don't get your money back, invested - you do (or hope you do!).

Good luck to you either way.

Obviously more money than sense.

Well invested but you know, could lose it all and then it will be classed as a donation