Thomas Tuchel - next England manager

Former Chelsea boss Thomas Tuchel has agreed to become the next England manager.

The BBC has been told by two different sources that German Tuchel will become the third non-British permanent manager of the England men's team after Sven-Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello.

England have been without a permanent manager since Gareth Southgate resigned following the Three Lions' Euro 2024 final defeat against Spain.

Lee Carsley was placed in charge on an interim basis "with a view to remaining in the position throughout autumn" while the Football Association assessed suitable options.

More to follow.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cr4x9p221gpo


I would have stuck with Lee Carsley myself, as far as I'm concerned the games against Spain and Denmark were exactly the right time to experiment with players and positions and all the abuse he got for poor results was nothing more than morons moaning over nothing.

There is only the World Cup and European Championship that matters and if Southgate had taken 'nothing' games like the Nations League (the what???) then maybe he wouldn't have been farting about trying Trent in midfield sticking with Maguire and not even taking Grealish during the actual tournament rather than falling short every time with probably the best set of England players in my lifetime.

Tuchel is a good manager but he's a bit weird at times.

Not a good thing to be when the nations press gets on your case after a few losses.

Remember this...?

He's a good manager but not sure how well he will handle the notorious English press and extra pressure that comes with the job.

Not too fussed about him being German, can't think of any English coaches that could do the job at the moment. It needs to be the best man for the job whether he's English or not.

Norpig wrote:He's a good manager but not sure how well he will handle the notorious English press and extra pressure that comes with the job.

Not too fussed about him being German, can't think of any English coaches that could do the job at the moment. It needs to be the best man for the job whether he's English or not.

Well I’m fussed about it. It’s our National Team for goodness sake and as one of the leading international teams it’s an absolute disgrace that we employ a foreign coach. Can you imagine Germany appointing anyone other than a German? No neither can I it just won’t happen. England aren’t just some irrelevant country who don’t have the infrastructure to train their own coaches but we do and decisions like this go against everything that stands for. 

We can’t pick foreign players so why should the coach be any different. When I watch England I’m watching my national team and I don’t want it managed by some foreigner, however good he may be at club level, who doesn’t share the same pride and passion that I do. It’s not just another job it’s the pinnacle for our own coaches and for the FA not to respect that too is a disgrace.

I agree with 63 to be fair.

karlypants wrote:I agree with 63 to be fair.

I don't!

For instance...

Should English clubs not have foreign managers then? - no Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp, Mikel Arteta, Arne Slot, Unai Emergy, etc?

Should English clubs not have foreign players - no Kevin De Bruyne, Erling Haaland, Mo Salah, Maertin Odegaard, etc?

Should Bolton have had no foreign players - Anelka, Campo, Hierro, Jussi, Diouf, even the likes of McGinlay, McAteer, Eidur Gudjohnsen?

Should we apply the no foreign manager rule to all sports - no Baz ball in cricket Brendon McCullum, for instance, how far do you take it, no foreigners at all anywhere?

No foreign managers in the NHS then?

Where do you draw the line being my point.

Shouldn't we simply be seeking the best person for any job whether they be a man or a woman, black or white, English or not?

I believe we should.


A bit of trivia...

One in six usual residents of England and Wales were born outside the UK.

International migration, England and Wales: Census 2021
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/internationalmigrationenglandandwales/census2021

As has previously been said, we are not allowed to recruit a foreign player into our national team so why should foreign managers be able to manage a foreign team?

Also what happens if England meet Germany in the World Cup final for example?

Who will Touchel want to win and will he still field his strongest side?

Hmm…

karlypants wrote:As has previously been said, we are not allowed to recruit a foreign player into our national team so why should foreign managers be able to manage a foreign team?

???

We can and do though!

It depends on several criteria but for instance in the current/recent English squads, Marc Guehi was born in the Ivory Coast.

Raheem Stirling was born in Jamaica.

AND Declan Rice even played 3 games previously for the full Republic of Ireland's national team (see further details in reply to your second point).

List of England international footballers born outside England
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers_born_outside_England

karlypants wrote:Also what happens if England meet Germany in the World Cup final for example?

Who will Touchel want to win and will he still field his strongest side?

Hmm…

Yes.

This sort of thing happens all the time!

Lee Carsley the current England Manager played 40 games for the Republic of Ireland and in his first game as England manager beat Ireland 2-0 in Dublin, with both our goal scorers Declan Rice and Jack Grealish both having previosly represented Ireland - Rice played 3 times for their first team and Grealish named as Ireland's Under 21 player of the season in 2015.

Lee Carsley started his reign as England's interim manager with a Uefa Nations League win against the Republic of Ireland, with Declan Rice and Jack Grealish both scoring against the country they used to represent.

Carsley, also a former player for the Irish Republic, is in charge of England for at least two games following Gareth Southgate's departure after Euro 2024.

And he had a largely untroubled start as the Three Lions overcame a lively atmosphere at a sold-out stadium in Dublin.

Rice, who played three senior friendlies for the Republic of Ireland before switching allegiance in 2019, silenced the jeers from the home fans after firing home in the 11th minute when Harry Kane's shot was blocked.

Rice chose not to celebrate, while Grealish, who represented Ireland at youth level, put his fingers in his ears after scoring on his return to the England side following his omission from Southgate's Euro 2024 squad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cx2ldk0gr90t

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Carsley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Rice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Grealish

How many managers and players must have played or managed against the team they played for and/or supported at one time or another?

Sam Allardyce both played and managed clubs for and against us over the years for instance.

How many players score (or manage) against their former clubs (most that do simply don't celebrate).

There must be thousands and thousands by now.

I guess a few might not try their hardest but I suspect the vast majority actually do.

Sluffy, in all those cases you mentioned there are qualifying criteria dictating who can play for which country internationally and we all know and accept that but Tuchel is a born and bred German with no family links to England. The decision is entirely that of the FA and I think it’s wrong. No other major country, France, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Brazil have ever employed a home born manager other than a couple through family historical links but even then very rarely. This is our national team not some league club and operates to completely different specifications so just stick the point of the issue please. If you have no problem with it that’s fine it’s your choice but I and many others are uncomfortable with it.

I'm sure Tuchel will be cheered on by the Royal Family.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy, in all those cases you mentioned there are qualifying criteria dictating who can play for which country internationally and we all know and accept that but Tuchel is a born and bred German with no family links to England. The decision is entirely that of the FA and I think it’s wrong. No other major country, France, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Brazil have ever employed a home born manager other than a couple through family historical links but even then very rarely. This is our national team not some league club and operates to completely different specifications so just stick the point of the issue please. If you have no problem with it that’s fine it’s your choice but I and many others are uncomfortable with it.

The thing about you mate is that you ALWAYS believe stuff on social media and never check if they are true.

Assuming you meant to say a 'non' home born manager... you would have found that -

Spain has had managers born in Argentina, Uruguay and even the Philippines!

List of Spain national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spain_national_football_team_managers

Italy has had a manager from Argentina (in fact the bloke was previously the manager of Spain!)

List of Italy national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italy_national_football_team_managers

France (in recent years) have had both a Spanish and Romanian manager (they even had an English manager before the second world war!)

France national football team manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_football_team_manager

Argentina a Spanish and French manager

List of Argentina national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Argentina_national_football_team_managers

Brazil have had a Portuguese and Argentinian

List of Brazil national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazil_national_football_team_managers



...and fwiw East Germany's last manager was born in Poland!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Geyer

So as it happens England was the LAST major footballing nation to appoint a foreign manager with Sven.


Also - and bearing in mind all the Make America Great Again mantra - the next World Cup is being played mainly in the USA who have just appointed the Argentinian Pochettino as their manager.

Pochettino named new boss of US men's team
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c9d1ewle7z1o

And yes this is our national team and why wouldn't we want the best man (or woman) to lead us to glory, rather than limit ourself to someone who is only qualified for consideration because they were born in places like Solihull (Potter), Amersham (Howe) or Kettering (Dyche)?

Or put it another way if Potter, Howe and Dyche are so good why aren't they managing bigger teams than what they currently have?

Could it be they aren't really in the same league as Tuchel?


And finally I repeat what I said on my opening post in that I would have stuck with Lee Carsley because I reckon a club coach and a national coach are two different beasts - one deals with things day to day whilst the other only sees the players for a week or so every couple of months,

I reckon that these days you need to grow a team and that means bringing through a core of players from youth to hopefully the full national team which Southgate did and would have been what Carsley would have done too.

The players would have grown up with Carsley and they him and they would have developed and bonded into a team over the journey.

I think that is the future -  I think that is also how other nations now do it - Spain for instance.

I'm also much happier with Tuchel than the likes of Potter, Dyche and Howe - Christ just a few years ago people wanted the likes of Lampard and Gerrard to be the England manager!!!

Sluffy wrote:

The thing about you mate is that you ALWAYS believe stuff on social media and never check if they are true.

Assuming you meant to say a 'non' home born manager... you would have found that -

Spain has had managers born in Argentina, Uruguay and even the Philippines!

List of Spain national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spain_national_football_team_managers

Italy has had a manager from Argentina (in fact the bloke was previously the manager of Spain!)

List of Italy national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italy_national_football_team_managers

France (in recent years) have had both a Spanish and Romanian manager (they even had an English manager before the second world war!)

France national football team manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_football_team_manager

Argentina a Spanish and French manager

List of Argentina national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Argentina_national_football_team_managers

Brazil have had a Portuguese and Argentinian

List of Brazil national football team managers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazil_national_football_team_managers



...and fwiw East Germany's last manager was born in Poland!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Geyer

So as it happens England was the LAST major footballing nation to appoint a foreign manager with Sven.


Also - and bearing in mind all the Make America Great Again mantra - the next World Cup is being played mainly in the USA who have just appointed the Argentinian Pochettino as their manager.

Pochettino named new boss of US men's team
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c9d1ewle7z1o

And yes this is our national team and why wouldn't we want the best man (or woman) to lead us to glory, rather than limit ourself to someone who is only qualified for consideration because they were born in places like Solihull (Potter), Amersham (Howe) or Kettering (Dyche)?

Or put it another way if Potter, Howe and Dyche are so good why aren't they managing bigger teams than what they currently have?

Could it be they aren't really in the same league as Tuchel?


And finally I repeat what I said on my opening post in that I would have stuck with Lee Carsley because I reckon a club coach and a national coach are two different beasts - one deals with things day to day whilst the other only sees the players for a week or so every couple of months,

I reckon that these days you need to grow a team and that means bringing through a core of players from youth to hopefully the full national team which Southgate did and would have been what Carsley would have done too.

The players would have grown up with Carsley and they him and they would have developed and bonded into a team over the journey.

I think that is the future -  I think that is also how other nations now do it - Spain for instance.

I'm also much happier with Tuchel than the likes of Potter, Dyche and Howe - Christ just a few years ago people wanted the likes of Lampard and Gerrard to be the England manager!!!

I think you’ll find if you read my post properly that I did refer to a small number of others over the years but I think if you check on those occasions you’ll find that almost without exception they had national backgrounds or families from the countries involved. For someone who criticises social media so much you seem to have to plumb its depths to make your argument. If I could be remotely bothered to confirm exactly the background of those you’ve quoted I would but frankly I have much better things to occupy my time than to get like you.

From my point of view there aren't any English coaches who would do a better job or are as experienced as Tuchel. No point giving it to the likes of Potter or Howe just for the sake of it!

Whitesince63 wrote:I think you’ll find if you read my post properly that I did refer to a small number of others over the years but I think if you check on those occasions you’ll find that almost without exception they had national backgrounds or families from the countries involved. For someone who criticises social media so much you seem to have to plumb its depths to make your argument. If I could be remotely bothered to confirm exactly the background of those you’ve quoted I would but frankly I have much better things to occupy my time than to get like you.

No you didn't, this is what you said.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy, in all those cases you mentioned there are qualifying criteria dictating who can play for which country internationally and we all know and accept that but Tuchel is a born and bred German with no family links to England. The decision is entirely that of the FA and I think it’s wrong. No other major country, France, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Brazil have ever employed a home born manager other than a couple through family historical links but even then very rarely. This is our national team not some league club and operates to completely different specifications so just stick the point of the issue please. If you have no problem with it that’s fine it’s your choice but I and many others are uncomfortable with it.

The more common theme has nothing to do with family links to the country but that most of them had managed a club team there - just like Tuchel had here (Chelsea - won the Champions League).

As for 'plumbing the depths of social media', how difficult do you think it was to Google 'Spain manager list' and post a link to the wiki web page where it shows a list of names with their nationalities flag by the side of them?

Ok wiki can't be guaranteed to be always reliable but for stuff like this it is good enough to deal with idiots like you who rely on zero fact checking themselves - the phrase 'in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king' comes to mind'.

It must have taken me what, 30 seconds at most to type in a search for each  country, click on the link a scan down a list of flags and copy the link back to my post - hardly plumbing the depths is it?

That's what amazes me with people, why for the sake of just a few seconds don't they simply just check stuff rather than blindly believe what some random has said or posted and pass on the lie themselves?

Just to show how a lie spreads, I was reading this yesterday about the wife of a Conservative councillor jailed for 31 months after calling for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set on fire.  The 41-year-old childminder called for "mass deportation now" and added: "If that makes me racist, so be it."

The hearing was told Connolly, of Parkfield Avenue in Northampton, sent a WhatsApp message on 5 August to her 10,000 followers.

Passing sentence, Judge Inman told the court that Connolly's tweet - which was read 310,000 times - was "intended to incite serious violence".

A clearly racist woman (see the article for other tweets she had made) who had a following of 10,000 folk who clearly felt the same way and many of whom passed on the tweet for others to see.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3wkzgpjxvo

The point being here that her tweet was a LIE, the tragedy in Southport had nothing at all to do with illegal immigrants.

She clearly believed what she was reading elsewhere from folk who thought the same way - echo chambers (confirmation bias).

Similarly nearly everything you said on your original past was untrue - yet you believed it.  I'm pretty certain you didn't make up what you said, so you must have got your 'fake' news from somewhere else and reposted it because you wanted to believe it to be true.

It wasn't.

Even when I pointed this out to you, instead of accepting the real facts you instead attempt to blast me for wasting my life away for simply seeking the truth!

One of us is clearly bonkers.

Yes Sluffy and I don’t think we need a vote to see it’s you. You even highlighted what I said and you still didn’t comprehend it!! 🥱

Yes it must be me.

When someone writes "no other major country, France, Italy, Argentina, Spain or Brazil have ever employed a home born manager other than a couple through family historical links but even then very rarely" what they are saying is that they have never appointed a manager BORN in those respective countries - ffs!

Clearly you meant to say NON HOME BORN in those countries unless they have family ties to it.

Well that simply isn't the case.

What you state is UNTRUE

I've linked you to the FACTS but you can't even be bothered to check them out for yourself - you prefer to believe the LIE.

What actually is the case is that these foreign born managers with NO family historical links to those countries have either played for, and/or managed clubs in those countries first.

They became known and accepted in those countries which they and their family had previously NO connection with.

That's completely different to what you had said still believe to be the case.

And you may well beat me in a popularity poll on here no doubt because I have stood my ground many times and upset many people by sticking to the facts and not joining in with the populist view of things based on fake news and lies.

Am I bonkers for debunking myths and lies?

Well in your eyes clearly I am.

But even so I much rather be believed to be bonkers than to be seen as an ignorant, stupid and an easily manipulated fool like you (and many, many millions of others) clearly are.