Reading 7-1 Bolton

wanderlust wrote:

Whitesince63 wrote:Basically I think they've just given up on him. Can't blame them for that.

Spot on. If I was a highly overpaid tosspot, I'd like to think that I wouldn't be blamed for giving up on a manager who had the audacity to ask me to put in a decent performance in a division way above my skillset. Cheeky fucker.

'Way above' my skillset- surely you mean 'way below' their self perceived skillset

wanderlust wrote:Obviously our defence was garbage but the Reading attack was clinical - and I can't say that any of our strikers including those not playing yesterday have looked anything like as dangerous all season. 

At least Dougie has finally realised how poor this squad is despite the media hype. God only knows what can be done about it - if anything. At least the summer will bring a partial clearout.

Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

guest66 wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Obviously our defence was garbage but the Reading attack was clinical - and I can't say that any of our strikers including those not playing yesterday have looked anything like as dangerous all season. 

At least Dougie has finally realised how poor this squad is despite the media hype. God only knows what can be done about it - if anything. At least the summer will bring a partial clearout.

Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

Arsene Wenger?

Roberto Martinez?

Alan Pardew?

Steve Bruce?

Boggersbelief wrote:Steve Bruce?

Decent manager....?

Fuck off.

Have you not seen the job he's done at hull?

David Moyes has too.

And sven

guest66 wrote:Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

Quality post.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

guest66 wrote:Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

Quality post.

Agreed    

Nobody can argue with that 66.

I certainly can't, once a manager loses the players it will only end one way.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

guest66 wrote:Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

Quality post.

apart from obviously the bit at the end. As proven above.

guest66 wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Obviously our defence was garbage but the Reading attack was clinical - and I can't say that any of our strikers including those not playing yesterday have looked anything like as dangerous all season. 

At least Dougie has finally realised how poor this squad is despite the media hype. God only knows what can be done about it - if anything. At least the summer will bring a partial clearout.

Wanderlust do you actually go to any games at all? I was at  reading on Saturday and witnessed the worst performance i have ever seen from a BWFC team. Dougie has absolutely lost it, the tactics, the motivation? Absolute rubbish. We were playing Reading ffs, who weren't even particularly good. Dougie has persevered with his 'favourites' and it's costing us. He's had a long time to sort our defence out, any decent manager builds from the back. Did Dougie sign a right back in the summer? No, he signed a centre half and put him right back. So many square pegs in round holes. How spearing and chung yong are still in the team i will never know, absolute shite the pair of them for the whole season. Medo get's one game, is man of the match and where has he been since? 

He then plays our best attacking midfielder, defensive midfield with Darren pratley ahead of him. So all teams need to do is press high and Mark Davies is virtually useless. Then he plays Neil danns on the right wing? He's a centre midfielder ffs Dougie. From the performance yesterday he's lost the players, the tactics are non existant and we are well and truly in a relegation battle. To those who say our players aren't good enough.. Bournemouth, Ipswich, even Burnley, their squads are no better at all, but they have decent managers. Soon Millwall under Holloway will be ahead of us, because they now have a decent manager. Dougie has proven he's lost for ideas, his ideal formation is actually shit, we sit deep and give teams all the time in the world. Ask yourself what decent manager has ever conceded 7 goals in a game?

Freedman out

Yes I do and I agree with much of what you say, however your conclusions are a gross oversimplification of what happened despite the benefit of hindsight.
There are two teams on the pitch and whenever either team in any game gets the upper hand, the other team's tactics invariably look bad in hindsight. It's one thing to give the players a specific role to play but if it isn't working out for whatever reason they inevitably get pulled out of position or get bypassed by the game - whereas if all goes well it's considered a tactical masterstroke. What decides which way it will go comes down to the simple stuff - the difference between making the pass or making the tackle or not. Make the pass and the move continues with everyone knowing what they should do next. Give the ball away and suddenly everyone is on the back foot.
Where I have a problem with Dougie is this:
I can see what he is trying to do with these players and can see what could be achieved if they all played well and found the positions he wants them to get into, made the passes successfully and defended properly. Tactically it's fine if the players perform well and do the basic things correctly.
But this season they haven't and when they give the ball away so easily and then defend like a sieve it looks really bad and we get punished.
My problem with Dougie is that he doesn't change things quickly enough when it's not going well. I appreciate he hasn't got a lot of options and to an extent his hands are tied, but even so he could be far more radical in his approach than he is.
Looking at his options from the outside, I would have thought that whilst he hasn't got the most talented squad at his disposal he could still try something different and make better use of the younger players for example. He argues they aren't good enough - and I can't disagree as I don't see them in training - but given our circumstances he could e.g. accept that White is an inexperienced FB but risk that in order to make use of his fantastic pace - a bit like Alonso at the end i.e. couldn't defend but pushed the opposition back with his runs.
There is a stubbornness (perhaps misplaced loyalty) about Dougie that seems to prevent any form of risk-taking. Excellent quality for transfer dealings but without a budget we won't see much benefit.
If there was ever a time to take chances and fully utilise the squad it's now IMO - the first team certainly need a bit of a shake up and maybe a different approach might get us through this period until we can get some of the high earners off the books. Cardiff in the cup is a perfect opportunity to try something different.

That said, whilst I have my criticisms of Dougie, I just can't put all the blame at his door - not when our players can't string passes together, defend properly or do the basic things correctly.

Say what you like about Dougie, but don't tell me the players are doing the basic stuff correctly. If they were doing he would look a lot better tactically.
I can't think of a single player in that squad that has consistently shown the quality required at Championship level as exemplified by Ream faffing about to give away that goal on Saturday - the last man just shouldn't mess around.
When the players stop giving the ball away so easily and stop making so many unnecessary errors I may change my opinion, but until then they have to carry a large proportion of the responsibility for our current position. Dougie too - but not all Dougie.

Good reply from Wanderlust.

There are mistakes being made by professional footballers in the Bolton squad that would not go over well in my "never was/has been" Saturday evening kick-about. If you are the last defender and the ball is bouncing around and a forward is approaching, you get the ball away from danger by kicking it away - not by trying to be clever and lift the ball over his head. You play a ground pass to a fellow midfielder then you move to a position that supports him where he can either make a return pass or has room to dribble - not stand there like a lump and admire your handiwork. You or your teammate make an error and it causes a goal, you fight back for your team!

Doug should not have to tell these fellows any of the above if they have ever played the game at any level over any sustained period of time.

Keegan wrote:There are mistakes being made by professional footballers in the Bolton squad that would not go over well in my "never was/has been" Saturday evening kick-about. If you are the last defender and the ball is bouncing around and a forward is approaching, you get the ball away from danger by kicking it away - not by trying to be clever and lift the ball over his head. You play a ground pass to a fellow midfielder then you move to a position that supports him where he can either make a return pass or has room to dribble - not stand there like a lump and admire your handiwork. You or your teammate make an error and it causes a goal, you fight back for your team!

Doug should not have to tell these fellows any of the above if they have ever played the game at any level over any sustained period of time.

......or if necessary put in the back of the stand

rammywhite wrote:

Keegan wrote:There are mistakes being made by professional footballers in the Bolton squad that would not go over well in my "never was/has been" Saturday evening kick-about. If you are the last defender and the ball is bouncing around and a forward is approaching, you get the ball away from danger by kicking it away - not by trying to be clever and lift the ball over his head. You play a ground pass to a fellow midfielder then you move to a position that supports him where he can either make a return pass or has room to dribble - not stand there like a lump and admire your handiwork. You or your teammate make an error and it causes a goal, you fight back for your team!

Doug should not have to tell these fellows any of the above if they have ever played the game at any level over any sustained period of time.

......or if necessary put in the back of the stand

Ream was just a recent example of a basic error in this case casual defending (which defies logic given our defensive record) but they've all done it far too regularly all over the pitch. What gets my goat more than anything are the wasted passes when we get into anything like a promising position and the miscontrols. These are very basic skills. Tactics don't even come into it when the players can't execute the basic stuff properly.

Really had enough of people telling us that this is a quality squad when they show their lack of quality week in, week out. I think it's a bit rich to suggest that the manager should be responsible for teaching "professionals" how to pass and control a frigging ball.