Bolton 4-0 Blackburn Rovers

I wonder when the statement 'I got it wrong' will be made? Surely he knows now that he has been getting it wrong for 18 months,

Triumph wrote:I wonder when the statement 'I got it wrong' will be made? Surely he knows now that he has been getting it wrong for 18 months,

Why? He got it right for most of last season as we charged up the table with win after win.

He's probably not the man to turn us into a team that can compete in the premiership but he seems to be making a decent fist of getting the necessary transition under way and I'm backing him to keep us up this season.

We'll only know if his work on clearing out the overpaid players, developing the kids and bringing in affordable players to move us forward is producing results until we're two or three months into next season and we can't expect miracles until the summer at the earliest.

Dougie seems to be on track with the behind the scenes stuff but there's no way of knowing whether he's able to do enough to get us promoted next year until he's had a chance for his plans to come to or at least get nearer to coming to fruition. We'll see.

lusty I think even you would admit he's got it wrong for most of THIS season AND that he blew a real chance to get us into the playoffs at the end of last. I appreciate and understand your point about wanting to be patient but frankly I think you've overdone it. Dougie has had eighteen months and we're no higher up the league than we were when he came in. I'm afraid last season's run doesn't matter, it's what he's doing now that counts and for the vast majority of this season he has unquestionably got it wrong. League tables don't lie my friend. We're in the bottom third of the table because Dougie frankly stuck to a non-viable plan long after it was apparent to everyone else it was failing. Another run this season, based yet again on the backs of loanees won't do more than paper over the inadequacies he has shown for far too much of this campaign. 

Much is being made of the out of contract players freeing up money for him to spend as if it will suddenly result in a cornucopia of cash that will allow him to go out and buy players who can change our world but I personally think that's a foolish belief. I doubt Dougie will see much if anything for transfer fees and he won't get half of the "extra" funds you seem to count on for wages either. No matter how much Gartside waffles on about "equity" the fact is our debt is massive and most of that money will HAVE to go towards servicing it. With the much lower parachute payment we get next year as well I actually feel Dougie will be told to offload even MORE than the five out of deal guys before he's allowed to even think about bringing new faces in. 

I also don't have much faith in the much touted "prospects" from the development and youth teams. I doubt any of them will be ready in DF's eyes for next season and even the ones he HAS brought to the bench before now have barely kicked a ball for the first team. There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors in this from where I sit. I admit that's an opinion and only time will tell who is right on that score but I doubt we'll suddenly see half a dozen kids burst through like Man Utd's "Class of 92" did. 

You already know what I think needs to be done, starting with Phil Gartside and working down but even if that's not going to happen I fear the on field problems will worsen even more if Dougie is still here in August.

Yes he's made mistakes.
Yes he's not a tactical genius.
Yes he is willing to make unpopular decisions.
Yes we don't know if the kids will be good enough or whether there'll be any money for him to buy who he wants.

But I still think he should be given time if only to see if all his work will stabilise the club and create a platform to push on.

Getting us steady financially and having a decent  affordable squad is a target I reckon Dougie can eventually deliver and that's the priority for now. When that's achieved it might be a more appropriate time to look for a manager who can push on from there.

We need to be very very wary, ok 2 outstanding back to back performances but this is the guy who said 4-4-2 is old fashioned, so is it now back 'in fashion'? Mason and Juke have made a big big impact as have Mavies and Weetabix but lets not get carried away just yet until we have our own players doing the business.

Triumph wrote:We need to be very very wary, ok 2 outstanding back to back performances but this is the guy who said 4-4-2 is old fashioned, so is it now back 'in fashion'? Mason and Juke have made a big big impact as have Mavies and Wheaterbix but lets not get carried away just yet until we have our own players doing the buisness.

Sorry- I must be a bit dim- you'll need you to explain Weetabix

Wheater

bwfc1874 wrote:Wheater

Mmmmm - it would have taken me a bit of time to make that connection

Triumph wrote:We need to be very very wary, ok 2 outstanding back to back performances but this is the guy who said 4-4-2 is old fashioned, so is it now back 'in fashion'? 

This has been exaggerated by fans in my opinion. I can't remember exactly what the quote said but it was as much about long ball being old fashioned as 442, and considering he played 2 up front last season (and a few times this) I find it seriously unlikely he simply meant that playing that shape was old fashioned.

Bit of a stupid thing to say on his part as it was bound to be taken the wrong way when things are going badly.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Triumph wrote:We need to be very very wary, ok 2 outstanding back to back performances but this is the guy who said 4-4-2 is old fashioned, so is it now back 'in fashion'? 

This has been exaggerated by fans in my opinion. I can't remember exactly what the quote said but it was as much about long ball being old fashioned as 442, and considering he played 2 up front last season (and a few times this) I find it seriously unlikely he simply meant that playing that shape was old fashioned.

Bit of a stupid thing to say on his part as it was bound to be taken the wrong way when things are going badly.

Yet he persisted with it even though it obviously does not work for us.

Reminds me of the good ol' days under Big Sam.

Whenever we played 4-3-3 it was classed as a brutalist 4-5-1.

When Mourinho came over and played the 4-3-3 with Duff and Robben it was hailed as revolutionary free flowing tactical wizardry.

Triumph wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Triumph wrote:We need to be very very wary, ok 2 outstanding back to back performances but this is the guy who said 4-4-2 is old fashioned, so is it now back 'in fashion'? 

This has been exaggerated by fans in my opinion. I can't remember exactly what the quote said but it was as much about long ball being old fashioned as 442, and considering he played 2 up front last season (and a few times this) I find it seriously unlikely he simply meant that playing that shape was old fashioned.

Bit of a stupid thing to say on his part as it was bound to be taken the wrong way when things are going badly.

Yet he persisted with it even though it obviously does not work for us.

Assuming you mean he persisted with the 4231, not 442? True he did stick with it too long, but it wasn't like Coyle sticking with the same failing players and formation for an entire season even when our problems were obvious. Dougie at least tried 442 a few times and swapped the personnel to try and make it work. 

He's also the one who brought in Juke and Mason to play this system, given more funds who's to say he wouldn't have done it earlier?

He's made mistakes tactically, but he's got some things right. Given time he may just develop into a decent manager and we can save the £7 million (no idea if that's accurate) it would cost to sack him.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
Whenever we played 4-3-3 it was classed as a brutalist 4-5-1.

When Mourinho came over and played the 4-3-3 with Duff and Robben it was hailed as revolutionary free flowing tactical wizardry.

The difference? How much the midfield push on to support the attack. TBH you can label a system pretty much what you like.
That's why I still don't get the grossly oversimplified assessment of Dougie's tactics that was used to divert attention away from poor individual performances and lack of effort/quality.

He has had to back track as 4-5-1 patently wasnt working.Pratley got injured early against Watford so he was forced to bring on Danns,which transformed the game.The guy isnt suddenly a tactical genius ffs,he still talks utter bollocks,makes very strange substitutions and the laugh out loud moment on saturday was the team sheet reading 4-1-2-1-2 fucking brilliant !!!!!!

A diamond is a 4-1-2-1-2, you really laughed out loud at that?

It's certainly been better for us than a traditional 4-4-2, Baptiste and Ream are almost playing as wing backs to compensate for the lack of width.

Don't think anybody's claiming Dougie's a tactical genius all of a sudden, but you don't have to be to succeed in this league.

bwfc1874 wrote:A diamond is a 4-1-2-1-2, you really laughed out loud at that?

It's certainly been better for us than a traditional 4-4-2, Baptiste and Ream are almost playing as wing backs to compensate for the lack of width.

Don't think anybody's claiming Dougie's a tactical genius all of a sudden, but you don't have to be to succeed in this league.

I have to be honest and say I agree, the diamond has really worked in the last two matches and I think we should keep it for the Leeds match. 

I'd like a pair of out and out wingers but this will be a physical battle and for my money Eagles and Lee aren't the right sort of players for that. In fact with Pratley out I'd leave the same four in the same shape for every game we can. Danns has really impressed me, Mavies clearly thrives on the new setup and even Spearing has looked a better and more intelligent player. Medo has done a pretty good job as well and from where I sat all four looked very comfortable with what they were doing on Saturday and supported each other well.

A diamond,new term for 4-4-2 , priceless !!

I don't think it's a new term in any way.

bwfc1874 wrote:I don't think it's a new term in any way.

It's not, the late Bobby Robson used the term a number of times, SAF has used it for years and so have the media. I guess Tigermin is just in the mood for a dig.

It's been happening all season, despite the huge amount of things fans could have a dig at Dougie for they aren't satisfied so are forced to invent/exaggerate things. Pathetic really.