Why Dougie got it spot on yesterday tactically...

wanderlust wrote:
The system is fine IMO and if we'd buried the chances and scored 4 or 5 nobody would be complaining

I would.

We all know things could have been different on another day.
A lot of things that happen might have happened differently on different days, and not just all the negatives.

The point is what turgid work Freedman makes of playing even the poorest teams in the division. I'm flabbergasted that anybody can think he got it right on Saturday, let alone bang on. I saw the team before the game and thought "Birmingham are gonna control it", because that happens in nine home games out of ten that we play that system in. The lone striker gets isolated, the midfield gets triangles played around them...we're generally made to look like the away team. But it weakens us mentally as much as it does tactically. The system is more intelligent than the players, and they lack confidence as a result.

As for the substitutions, I stand by everything I've already said. If there's one thing Birmingham will have wanted in the dying minutes, it's a crowded box to swing crosses in at.

doffcocker wrote:

wanderlust wrote:
The system is fine IMO and if we'd buried the chances and scored 4 or 5 nobody would be complaining

I would.

We all know things could have been different on another day.
A lot of things that happen might have happened differently on different days, and not just all the negatives.

The point is what turgid work Freedman makes of playing even the poorest teams in the division. I'm flabbergasted that anybody can think he got it right on Saturday, let alone bang on. I saw the team before the game and thought "Birmingham are gonna control it", because that happens in nine home games out of ten that we play that system in. The lone striker gets isolated, the midfield gets triangles played around them...we're generally made to look like the away team. But it weakens us mentally as much as it does tactically. The system is more intelligent than the players, and they lack confidence as a result.

As for the substitutions, I stand by everything I've already said. If there's one thing Birmingham will have wanted in the dying minutes, it's a crowded box to swing crosses in at.

I think this post is bang on and sums up just how frustrated I have felt all season not the odd game but the majority "FEELING LIKE WE ARE THE AWAY SIDE AT HOME", watching the opposition G/K spectate, mind numbingly dull tactics (what's he trying to do, bore the opposition into submission) he's certainly boring the vast majority of supporter's, nothing to get excited about, frustration week in week out, and then having to listen to that inane drivel after every game trying to convince me that the performance was good, I think Dougie's idea of good performance and the supporters are poles apart, to coin a phrase, "By a million miles".

On occasion we have looked like world beaters ....  showing that we have the players to do it if only Doog will let them loose.  It seems like Doog has not learned that lesson. Why I don't know.

14th in the Champs and the worst season in more than decade ...... it might indicate a problem somewhere...but as always I know nowt......not to mention finishing lower than Derby.  Good old Ginger must be laughing.

bryan458 wrote:

doffcocker wrote:

wanderlust wrote:
The system is fine IMO and if we'd buried the chances and scored 4 or 5 nobody would be complaining

I would.

We all know things could have been different on another day.
A lot of things that happen might have happened differently on different days, and not just all the negatives.

The point is what turgid work Freedman makes of playing even the poorest teams in the division. I'm flabbergasted that anybody can think he got it right on Saturday, let alone bang on. I saw the team before the game and thought "Birmingham are gonna control it", because that happens in nine home games out of ten that we play that system in. The lone striker gets isolated, the midfield gets triangles played around them...we're generally made to look like the away team. But it weakens us mentally as much as it does tactically. The system is more intelligent than the players, and they lack confidence as a result.

As for the substitutions, I stand by everything I've already said. If there's one thing Birmingham will have wanted in the dying minutes, it's a crowded box to swing crosses in at.

I think this post is bang on and sums up just how frustrated I have felt all season not the odd game but the majority "FEELING LIKE WE ARE THE AWAY SIDE AT HOME", watching the opposition G/K spectate, mind numbingly dull tactics (what's he trying to do, bore the opposition into submission) he's certainly boring the vast majority of supporter's, nothing to get excited about, frustration week in week out, and then having to listen to that inane drivel after every game trying to convince me that the performance was good, I think Dougie's idea of good performance and the supporters are poles apart, to coin a phrase, "By a million miles".

There are two distinct points here: "the system doesn't work with these players" and "don't like the system because it makes us look like the away side/we are pinned back for long periods/it's too defensive".
I agree with both points and agree that either the system or the players (or both) have to change if we are to be more successful.

The players will definitely change this summer.
The system will probably stay at least in the short term as we've been murdered whenever we've played a more attack-minded system against decent opposition - however, there's a possibility we may get players capable of playing an attacking system in the summer.
Basically the system will be determined by the playing staff we have next season, but as it stands, Dougie will err towards variants of 451.

Did anyone see Palace pull it back against Liverpool from 3-0 down to 3-3?

Liverpool coasting, 3-0 up, 13 mins left, continued to attack and close down high. Palace with nothing to lose, break forward and get a deflected goal. Then, Liverpool continue not to adapt and Palace take their chance and grab another. Liverpool continue to press, get a corner, 7 or 8 men up on the attack, Palace clear and break quickly - and get a third goal. All because Liverpool didn't change the system at the right time.

So just like camping in our box can seem dangerous and give the opposition chances, so too can not adapting and not seeing that a team with nothing to lose  are going to be a bigger threat if we try to see the game out with the system that worked for the first 75 mins.

Thought the same thing Biggie, post match most pundits were advocating putting Agger or Toure on to try and close out the game. It was clear Skrtel and Sakho were struggling. It's the sort of move Mourinho would have made, it's also the sort of thing our fans wouldn't and as clueless. I wouldn't say sitting back is a tactical masterclass really, but it is a necessity at times.

it is a necessity at the right times but we seem to have this as plan A, i see no problem playing this way away from home but to play this way in the majority of home games from the start is wrong and is driving people away from the club.

I don't think we do play that way from the start.

I know in other games our tactics have been found wanting and we have made mistakes and also been poor in possession and failed to hurt teams. I accept that. And sometimes I think we are painfully slow to move the ball and attack. But that is a separate issue. My points raised above referred only to the Brum game...

Biggie wrote:I know in other games our tactics have been found wanting and we have made mistakes and also been poor in possession and failed to hurt teams. I accept that. And sometimes I think we are painfully slow to move the ball and attack. 

But apart from all that, Dougie's doing a sterling job...... 

Anyone with half a brain can see that freedman is doing a good job, yes it's taking longer than expected but is that really a surprise with players that don't want to play for us and no money to spend.

The majority of bolton fans need to look at the bigger picture!

wanderlust wrote:

The players will definitely change this summer.
The system will probably stay at least in the short term as we've been murdered whenever we've played a more attack-minded system against decent opposition

Wrong and wrong again.

Freedman hasn't let any regular first-teamers go - so it'll be more of the same ponces next season, with maybe a couple of new signings at best.

Murdered attacking decent sides? When?

The only time Dougie was bold against a top side was away at Leicester when we matched them shot for shot to be level 3-3 at half-time. Dougie then bottled it and went defensive. We didn't have another shot.

I'm not saying we have a team to win the league, but we have a team with the right tactics to trouble the top 6. Unfortunately this manager will prevent that.

Liverpool have probably blown it now...but what entertainment and hope has been provided for their fans this season .....unlike us.... and look at Palace since they relieved themselves of our Doogie.

Enough said.

terenceanne wrote:Liverpool have probably blown it now...but what entertainment and hope has been provided for their fans this season .....unlike us.... and look at Palace since they relieved themselves of our Doogie.

Enough said.

Maybe, but you have to remember Rodgers and Pulis are old-fashioned - Dougie is a right on modern manager and the future of English football.

The part about Palace is complete nonsense.

They are playing in the exact fashion Dougie try's to get us playing, tight at the back and quick on the counter. Difference is they have some pace on the break to hurt teams - Bolasie, Ince and some decent midfielders to keep the ball and hassle the opposition - Jedinak, Dikagchoi. 3 of the 4 I've mentioned were signed by Dougie. His plan and tactics are pretty obvious. But he hasn't got the players to do it, or a plan b by the looks of things.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

The players will definitely change this summer.
The system will probably stay at least in the short term as we've been murdered whenever we've played a more attack-minded system against decent opposition

Wrong and wrong again.

Freedman hasn't let any regular first-teamers go - so it'll be more of the same ponces next season, with maybe a couple of new signings at best.

Murdered attacking decent sides? When?

The only time Dougie was bold against a top side was away at Leicester when we matched them shot for shot to be level 3-3 at half-time. Dougie then bottled it and went defensive. We didn't have another shot.

I'm not saying we have a team to win the league, but we have a team with the right tactics to trouble the top 6. Unfortunately this manager will prevent that.

I'm not sure if the pudgy blonde lump of puppy fat in the photo is you or not, but your comments remind me of someone who used to support Bolton. 
Are you a Notts County fan? If so, congrats on your magnificent draw at Oldham. I bet you were loving the survival celebrations. How do you rate our Josh?

wanderlust wrote:
I'm not sure if the pudgy blonde lump of puppy fat in the photo is you or not, but your comments remind me of someone who used to support Bolton. 
Are you a Notts County fan? If so, congrats on your magnificent draw at Oldham. I bet you were loving the survival celebrations. How do you rate our Josh?

I'm not even a Bolton fan and I've been to more games than you this season.

In response to the Liverpool reference, nobody's saying we should be defending leads as though we need eight goals from the next one and half matches.
It's not the way forward for us, but neither is the opposite extreme, in my opinion.

What's more, I'd say Palace's goals were as much about individual brilliance/errors as they were about poor tactical organisation.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:
I'm not sure if the pudgy blonde lump of puppy fat in the photo is you or not, but your comments remind me of someone who used to support Bolton. 
Are you a Notts County fan? If so, congrats on your magnificent draw at Oldham. I bet you were loving the survival celebrations. How do you rate our Josh?

I'm not even a Bolton fan and I've been to more games than you this season.

You definitely remind of the person who used to support Bolton. S(he) also claimed to attend Bolton matches despite no evidence whatsoever of having been anywhere near the ground or having been seen there by other Bolton fans. Also chatted a load of shite just like you. Spooky!

That said, s(he) also claimed to be an ex-model who dated footballers, lives in a penthouse and has a successful career so if your photo is anything to go by it's clearly not you. Still what are the chances of having 2 bullshitters with the same user name? Please don't be offended if I say "slim".

The game I watched DF got everything wrong! AGAIN!!!!!!!! 4-4-2 we would have hammered them.

bwfc1874 wrote:The part about Palace is complete nonsense.

They are playing in the exact fashion Dougie try's to get us playing, tight at the back and quick on the counter. Difference is they have some pace on the break to hurt teams - Bolasie, Ince and some decent midfielders to keep the ball and hassle the opposition - Jedinak, Dikagchoi. 3 of the 4 I've mentioned were signed by Dougie. His plan and tactics are pretty obvious. But he hasn't got the players to do it, or a plan b by the looks of things.

Only a numbskull would continue to play tactics with the wrong players then   

Surely play to the strengths that you have on the park. When & if Doogie brings in players who suit his tactics then play those tactics....and we can judge accordingly.