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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Alan Turing national hero

Alan Turing national hero

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gloswhite
boltonbonce
Bollotom2014
rammywhite
Reebok Trotter
scottjames30
White84
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21Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 00:25

Guest


Guest

I remember that summer.

But I'm struggling to see what a bunch of disenfranchised kids throwing rocks at police cars in Liverpool, Bristol and Manchester has to do with what's going on in the middle east now.

Some black kids in Liverpool are (rightfully) pissed off at Thatcher's draconian policies which were designed to subjugate the working class and suddenly you can't trust Asians......?

What were these Asian kids actually doing when they were running amok?

Did you really feel threatened?

Sorry.

I respect your views but I don't get it.

22Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 00:28

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Laughing

23Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 00:43

Banks of the Croal

Banks of the Croal
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Breadman wrote:I remember that summer.

But I'm struggling to see what a bunch of disenfranchised kids throwing rocks at police cars in Liverpool, Bristol and Manchester has to do with what's going on in the middle east now.

Some black kids in Liverpool are (rightfully) pissed off at Thatcher's draconian policies which were designed to subjugate the working class and suddenly you can't trust Asians......?

What were these Asian kids actually doing when t
hey were running amok?
Did you really feel threatened?

Sorry.

I respect your views but I don't get it.

Did I really feel threatened? at the time yes. for my family.



Last edited by Banks of the Croal on Sat Nov 15 2014, 01:03; edited 2 times in total

24Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 00:59

Guest


Guest

Fair enough.

I was a kid watching it on telly, you had kids of your own and I would do whatever it took to protect mine, so I get where you're coming from.

But did that summer really convince you that Muslims were all dangerous?

That's my point.

Should one isolated incident really form a lasting, solid opinion about a whole section of society?

If you think I'm talking shit, fair enough - I really don't want to fall out but I just think that lumping everybody you come across from a certain group in the same "nasty" bucket because of what a few of them did once can't be a good or healthy thing.

It was that type of thinking that got Hitler in power in Germany.

And we've got to learn from that.

Anyroad, sorry for banging on - I respect your opinion and I'm just offering up mine for the sake of discussion.

Peace.

25Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 01:09

Banks of the Croal

Banks of the Croal
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Being honest I've mellowed since.

I hate no one ... not even manu Shocked

26Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 09:06

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Guest

gloswhite wrote:There can be no compromise for them, as one of their basic tenets is that all infidels should be either converted or killed. This is a fact. Infidels are everyone who is not a Muslim, That's you, me and the vast majority of the country.

Only if you interpret the Koran literally which 99% of Muslims don't in this country

27Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 09:09

Guest


Guest

The bible wrote:If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."(Leviticus 26:27-30)

28Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 16:29

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Sorry 1874, but you've just hit one button that really sets me off, (I wont in this case), but I absolutely detest it when people start quoting the bible, Koran, or whatever. Every one has statements that have their opposite somewhere else in the script, and when you include individual interpretation of them, there is always so much confusion, always bearing in mind that it was up to 300 years (allegedly) that the bible stories were written after the supposed event. (I don't know if this is the same for the Koran) 
I agree that its a small percentage who take the rules literally, but when you consider that the Christian religion works on the 'lets be nice to everyone' as the basic rule, it seems the same basic rule for the Muslims is 'convert or kill', Not a very good basis to start from.

29Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 16:40

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Breadman wrote:Fair enough.

I was a kid watching it on telly, you had kids of your own and I would do whatever it took to protect mine, so I get where you're coming from.

But did that summer really convince you that Muslims were all dangerous?


I see what you are asking Breaders, but lets be honest, and say that if you look at the times since those riots, who are the people/ethnic group that have taken, and used, the laws of the land, and contrary to the national character, for their own benefit. I've said it before, and I still believe it, that I have no problem with any man who is working to protect and raise his own family, regardless of colour or creed. What I do object to is when one, (any one) race or religion, feels they should have the right to change things for their own selfish ends, and to use the accepting nature of the country, in this case British, against them.

30Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 17:55

Guest


Guest

gloswhite wrote:Sorry 1874, but you've just hit one button that really sets me off, (I wont in this case), but I absolutely detest it when people start quoting the bible, Koran, or whatever. Every one has statements that have their opposite somewhere else in the script, and when you include individual interpretation of them, there is always so much confusion, always bearing in mind that it was up to 300 years (allegedly) that the bible stories were written after the supposed event. (I don't know if this is the same for the Koran) 
I agree that its a small percentage who take the rules literally, but when you consider that the Christian religion works on the 'lets be nice to everyone' as the basic rule, it seems the same basic rule for the Muslims is 'convert or kill', Not a very good basis to start from.
That's exactly the reason I posted the quote, because all religions and full of extreme bullshit which shouldn't be taken seriously under any circumstances.
Your final point about Islam's basic rule being convert or kill is simply not true I'm afraid. There are five pillars of Islam -

1. Shahadah: declaring there is no god except God, and Muhammad is God's Messenger

2. Salat: ritual prayer five times a day

3. Zakat: giving 2.5% of one’s savings to the poor and needy

4. Sawm: fasting and self-control during the holy month of Ramadan

3.Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in a lifetime if one is able

Shahadah has been twisted by extremists to imply what you suggest, but that's not a wide held belief in anyway.

31Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 17:56

Guest


Guest

Sorry about the HTML, posting off a phone - if a mod could get rid of that I'd appreciate it!

32Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 19:03

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

This is the hadith 


Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'

direct words from the prophet, obviously most don't practice but I can't imagine you're a good Muslim if you don't take the words of the prophet literally. But you can't twist that, it's very clear.

33Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 19:21

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

bwfc1874 wrote:Sorry about the HTML, posting off a phone - if a mod could get rid of that I'd appreciate it!
Although maybe a bit late, I have fixed this for you. Smile

34Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 21:22

Guest


Guest

Cheers KP

35Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 22:34

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Interesting posts, however, I shall gently extract myself from making further comments, apart from this one. 1874, you refer to the first of the 5 pillars and the subsequent violent actions as an interpretation of their laws. whereas, to me, Hipsters comments, and their actions, reflect more of the true belief of that religion, (unless I've completely misunderstood what has been said).

36Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sat Nov 15 2014, 23:28

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Guest

I think both points are correct, but IMO what's relevant in this instance - judging whether or not UK Muslims are a danger - is how that pillar of Islam is interpreted and I think most would agree that convert or kill is not something they base their faith on. Unfortunately it's that small minority who do that make the papers.

37Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sun Nov 16 2014, 00:49

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Guest

No two Muslim scholars will ever completely agree entirely on how to interpret the actual wording of the Quran.

I'm no expert (obviously) but I recall listening to a discussion on the subject on the radio a while back (it was either on Key 103's Totally Fabtastic Crazy Mental Discussion Hour or The Today Programme on Radio 4 - can't remember which) but it was clear that it's not just a question of interpretation, but rather a difficulty in understanding the actual language used, as some words have several, very different meanings.

And herein lies the problem.

If the people who are supposed to understand the basic tenets of your religion are given enough latitude in their interpretation of it to spin it in a way that suits their crazy, mental, dangerous agenda and it's not immediately obvious that they're talking absolute bollocks because you can't read it with a clear understanding for yourself and know unequivocally that what they're saying is wrong......

....it will always leave the door open for nutters to further their agenda and recruit the feeble-minded to their cause with promises of untold riches in the afterlife if they are prepared to blow themselves up, especially if these people are living in abject poverty and their earthly existence is completely miserable because they're living hand to mouth and they don't know any better because the same people who are feeding them this shit won't allow them to learn about the outside world.

Education is the key to defeating the pernicious rise of fundamentalist Islam.

Not going in there with the 2nd Marine Corps and blowing the shit out of everything.

That just serves to further entrench resentment against the West and makes the Mad Mullahs' jobs easier.

And they know it......

38Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sun Nov 16 2014, 09:46

Guest


Guest

Excellent post.

39Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sun Nov 16 2014, 10:47

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Excellent posts chaps. 
Breaders, spot on, as you say 'the same people who are feeding them this shit won't allow them to learn about the outside world'.
We all know that their spiritual leaders, (and law enforcers) are men who are brought into this country, usually ignorant of our ways and customers. However, I would ask the question, why are so many brought up in the west, now turning to their radical ways. I think, Breaders that you are right, education is needed, but which way should it point, and to whom ?

40Alan Turing national hero - Page 2 Empty Re: Alan Turing national hero Sun Nov 16 2014, 10:59

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

My only point with the posting the hadith is that they don't need to "twist" islam which is always an accusation levelled at extremists. 

"It's a misunderstanding of the faith" Well it's not really is it, if anything it's the so called moderates (who still don't pray with women by the way, to prevent arousal of men, oh and being gay is a sin, moderate.... haha) who are misunderstanding it.

How can "If somebody discards his religion, kill him" be a matter of language? That has absolutely no other meanings and no nuance what so ever, it's extremely clear, obviously most will put it in the context and time it was written in and push it to one side... but my other question is why? It's the word of the prophet, the last and true words of God apparently, how can you discard that? If you discard that why bother with all the other stuff?

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