Latest shit from the ST

Sluffy, I can assure you I haven't missed the point you've now made extensively 3 times. 

I just don't agree with it.

Basically sluffy has hit two nails on the head. 

Firstly Birch had no business asking the Supporter's Trust to bid at all. At that time (in fact even now) there is no Supporter's Trust, only a Steering Committee whose sole mandate is to arrange elections for the formation of the said Trust. In both law and fact they have no rights beyond that single task because they have not been elected or instructed by their membership to pursue such an option. At that point the Steering Committee should have been well aware of this legal reality and politely declined Mr Birch's request on those grounds. 

Second, the fact they did not do so shows at best questionable judgement, particularly for a group that claims to have business expertise and at least one Chartered Accountant in its ranks. The entire Committee must see how it proved itself to be at least naive and at worst a pawn with their actions. 

As to the involvement of Eddie Davis I can't help but think there is a lot more to come out in the wash here. Not just because of who some of the steering committee are and their previous links to him but also because I fear he's still pulling strings and still attempting to dictate the future course of the club through them. I can't see SS being involved for more than a couple of years before they decide they aren't ever going to make a profit at which time they will sell to cut their losses. I suspect (I don't know or pretend to know) that Eddie's thinking he'll be able to buy the club back either directly or via the ST for a song.

taken from another site wrote:
One thing that came up in face to face conversation was that members of the steering group will be standing for election. This goes against what was said when the Steering Group was set up.

What a total surprise eh!

Sluffy wrote:

taken from another site wrote:
One thing that came up in face to face conversation was that members of the steering group will be standing for election. This goes against what was said when the Steering Group was set up.

What a total surprise eh!

I'm about 60% with you sluffy, in that I think half of what you are saying is spot on. I believe that the ST did allow themselves to be manipulated at the point where they asked for preferred bidder status, the Trust was no where near ready for such a step in my opinion and should have been concentrating on setting it self up.

I would be surprised if it had a major effect on the negotiations, you would hope that Holdsworth and co would have seen through this if it was a negotiating tool, although if rumours of the deal are correct then perhaps not.

I disagree that the trust had no right to get involved in the take over, however they should clearly not have got involved whilst other bidders where there, the Trust should have been preparing a bid in case a last resort was needed and that should still be one of the ST's main objectives.

Fabians Right Peg wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

taken from another site wrote:
One thing that came up in face to face conversation was that members of the steering group will be standing for election. This goes against what was said when the Steering Group was set up.

What a total surprise

I would be surprised if it had a major effect on the negotiations, you would hope that Holdsworth and co would have seen through this if it was a negotiating tool, although if rumours of the deal are correct then perhaps not.

Agree with that, Holdsworth wouldnt have been pressured into buying the club by the ST being set up.

If they wanted to press Holdsworth into doing a deal they would have made out some Egyptian Billionaire was interested in buying us.

Fabians Right Peg wrote:
I'm about 60% with you sluffy, in that I think half of what you are saying is spot on. I believe that the ST did allow themselves to be manipulated at the point where they asked for preferred bidder status, the Trust was no where near ready for such a step in my opinion and should have been concentrating on setting it self up.

I would be surprised if it had a major effect on the negotiations, you would hope that Holdsworth and co would have seen through this if it was a negotiating tool, although if rumours of the deal are correct then perhaps not.

I disagree that the trust had no right to get involved in the take over, however they should clearly not have got involved whilst other bidders where there, the Trust should have been preparing a bid in case a last resort was needed and that should still be one of the ST's main objectives.

The same person (Bill Dawson) who let the cat out of the bag that Birch asked the ST to make a formal bid for Preferred Bidder Status also informed the public audience that they did so with a financial backing of £7 million.

Now why would he say that if it wasn't also true?

If Birch was able to manipulate the ST to be in the position of entering into negotiations to buy the club AND have £7 million behind them, then I have no doubt what so ever that he made Holdsworth fully aware of the fact that the ST really DID have money behind them and could be seen as an alternative route for Davies to pursue.

Who knows who put up the £7 million at such short notice (I suspect Davies / Birch would have though!) and how serious or spurious their intentions were of following through with the deal but whatever they were Holdsworth now no longer held all the aces as a position of sole buyer for the club.

God knows why Holdsworth was so persistent in his efforts to buy the club but now he had to calculate how 'real' or otherwise the ST's involvement in buying the club actually was.

I would think many of the members on the Steering Committee at that time were led to believe they were in with a realistic chance hence their involvement and the bullish way some of them presented themselves at the time.

The fact that £7 million was seemingly and suddenly put on a plate in front of them to seek Preferred Bidder status must also have led them to believe there was to be more investment from their backers in the future too.

So if the ST believed they were serious bidders themselves I also think Holdsworth would have had to believe they were too and acted accordingly in order to secure the club from Davies.

(If the ST DIDN'T think they were serious bidders then why the fuck had they as an independent organisation as they claim get themselves involved in the first place?).

As for your last point I agree and have never said otherwise.

The ST's reason for being is to be the saviour of last resort for the club when there is nothing of value anyone else wants in the club.

I have stated this many times previously.

They do have a role to play and a vital one at that.

I have never been anti the creation of the ST per se but have been severely critical up to now of individuals involved with it and the actions of the Steering Group have taken to date.

The involvement of the ST to seek Preferred Bidder status at the request of the then owners agent Trevor Birch to the detriment of the eventual new owner proves my point fully.

I believe those who have colluded with Birch against Holdsworth (knowingly or not) have brought the integrity of the ST into disrepute and damaged fatally its standing with Holdsworth and should resign immediately.

Instead it now appears not only do they not think they have acted inappropriately, without independence and clearly without openness, honesty and transparency,  but that they are now intending to stand in the elections for the ST and if so I have no doubt voted into office by the many of the ST's membership who clearly have no grasp of the inappropriacy of their many actions to date and the damage it has done with the new owners because of it.

The ST is seriously in danger of being excluded in any say with the club what so ever whilst Holdsworth remains in charge of it whilst these people are still active within the ST.

These people clearly are more concerned about their own ego's than the future good of the ST.

I believe everything you have said is based fact, however like everyone else you are then drawing your conclusion based on the known information and a lot of what you say makes perfect sense.

It's not clear as to the reasons why the ST asked for preferred bidder status, if Trevor Birch had indicated all other deals where off then perhaps they believed they where acting in the best interests of the club believing they where the only option?

I'm very much of the view that those with the large egos will be whittled out in time and I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt in relation to the Steering groups / ST actions over the last months, given that in certain circumstances I believe their actions could be explained if not excused, however sound judgement is often benefitted by hindsight.

However that said, I do hope now that elections are looming we get chance to vote in people who can communicate effectively, have sound judgement and can bring all the fans together.

Fabians Right Peg wrote:I believe everything you have said is based fact, however like everyone else you are then drawing your conclusion based on the known information and a lot of what you say makes perfect sense.

It's not clear as to the reasons why the ST asked for preferred bidder status, if Trevor Birch had indicated all other deals where off then perhaps they believed they where acting in the best interests of the club believing they where the only option?

I'm very much of the view that those with the large egos will be whittled out in time and I am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt in relation to the Steering groups / ST actions over the last months, given that in certain circumstances I believe their actions could be explained if not excused, however sound judgement is often benefitted by hindsight.

However that said, I do hope now that elections are looming we get chance to vote in people who can communicate effectively, have sound judgement and can bring all the fans together.

Thank you for the reply, although I suspect not too many people are interested in this subject although for what it is worth I believe is an important one.

I accept that the members of the ST may have been acting with the best of their intentions by getting involved with Birch's request for them to seek Preferred Bidder status but remember the road to Hell is paved with good intentions also, or so they say.

I accept it is easier to be wise after the event also - but for what it is worth I stated my opinion at the time (based on many, many years experience of being involved in the public sector) that the Steering Group were acting beyond their remit and where wrong to do so - in involving themselves for whatever reason in seeking Preferred Bidder status in attempting to buy the club (prior to the knowledge now that Birch's hand was behind all of this and actively manipulating the situation and by implication having a direct influence on the ST's actions to the ultimate detriment of Holdsworth's position on buying the club).

Be that as it is, whether you think their involvement was commendable at the time or foolish, we need to appraise the situation we now find ourselves in.

Clearly now the new club owners want NO INVOLVEMENT with the ST due to their behaviour in plotting against them on Birch's behest.

This is evidenced with the Steering Group's chairman (Richard Hurst) one word answer of "No" to the question of whether the ST is seeking a place on the new owners board and his remarks latterly of the ST seeking to "obtain the new owners RESPECT".

Clearly Holdsworth / Anderson have no time for the current members of the Steering Group due to their active involvement in trying to prevent their takeover of the club.

Whilst I understand your desire to give these members of the ST a 'second chance' so to speak because they did not act maliciously the fact remains whilst they are part of the ST it is abundantly clear the Holdsworth / Anderson as the new owners want nothing to do with them.

As the ST prime aim is to have an influence on the club owners I certainly can't see any benefit to the ST or its membership having these perceived 'plotters' against Holdsworth being part of the current or future ST as they bring into disrepute in the eyes of the new owners the whole of the ST itself.

Any honourable person involved with the seeking of Preferred Bidder status (at the expense of the Holdsworth bid) would at this point fall on their own sword and remove themselves from the ST in the hope that the ST (minus them) could build bridges with Holdsworth and attempt to influence them for the benefit of the whole of the ST membership and for every fan of the club in general.

Clearly those who have been involved with Birch's manipulation of the ST (even though they may have been completely innocent of what they were doing at the time) are irrevocably tainted in the eyes of Holdsworth / Anderson and will be so as long as they play any further part in the ST in their eyes.

For these people to stand for election will (assuming they are successful which I am sure they will be as many of the electorate will obviously not be - as informed as perhaps they should be in relation to these Steering Group members involvement in trying to usurp the Holdsworth bid for the club and its clearly consequential consequences of blocking by Holdsworth of the ST having anything to do with the club from now on) - they will simply damage the immediate future of the ST and makes a mockery of the ST having any sway or involvement in the club for the foreseeable future - which fundamentally undermines the whole concept of having the ST - simply so that they can seek their own egotistical aim of being elected and having personal power and authority in the ST - irrespective of what harm it does to the ST by doing so!

I am unaware how long their tenure in post may be but if it was say for four or five years (which is the norm in local or national politics) then they are condemning the immediate future of the ST into the wilderness for as long as Holdsworth / Anderson remains in charge of the club.

The ST as clearly made massive mistakes so far and unless the members of the Steering Group involved in the duplicity against Holdsworth step down and do not seek a future with the forthcoming elections of the ST, I predict with some certainty that the ST will be completely ineffective in seeking any sort of involvement with the new Holdsworth / Anderson ownership and thereby make the ST completely meaningless whilst they remain in ownership.

Please feel free to book mark and save my prediction as I feel entirely confident of its accuracy.

If those involved in the ST were doing it for the best interest of the club rather than for their own ego's they should step down at their first possible opportunity and certainly not seek office in the forthcoming elections.

Seems like Marc Iles has been reading Nuts again!

The Trust is still very much in its infancy and had it been established longer then their chances of convincing Davies to do a deal – most likely in administration – may have been greater. But Dean Holdsworth and Ken Anderson were the men who got the nod and we now wait and see how a body which was effectively set up in opposition during the buyout process can now earn the respect they crave.

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I agree with Iles, be interesting to see how they position themselves over the next 12 months given that the immediate need has subsided. Looking forward to seeing what they do.

bwfc1874 wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they do.

Get a life.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they do.

Get a life.

You're bitter that the steering group are better fans than you. Don't take it out on me.

bwfc1874 wrote:
You're bitter that the steering group are better fans than you. Don't take it out on me.

No one is a better fan than me. I buy a programme and don't even read it.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I buy a programme and don't even read it.

I've done that a good few times in the past!

Yes, but that's because the words are too big for you.

i only own 2 programmes, the last one at Burnden and the first one at the Reebok

Do you still get player bios in them?

I remember Dave Sutton saying he drove a Sierra 2.0 and his favourite restaurant was Tiggi's.

Breadman wrote:Do you still get player bios in them?

I remember Dave Sutton saying he drove a Sierra 2.0 and his favourite restaurant was Tiggi's.

Best Bio of recent times was Kevin McNaughton who listed his favourite pre-match meal as Trifle.

They used to have an 'Ask the ref' section (Mark Halsey).

I think I was one of the few people who ever sent a question in,because I was always in there.

boltonbonce wrote:They used to have an 'Ask the ref' section (Mark Halsey).

I think I was one of the few people who ever sent a question in,because I was always in there.

What did you ask him?