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Brexit negotiations

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91 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 03 2017, 23:09

JAH

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR

92 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Aug 04 2017, 11:28

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Perhaps the biggest advantage of being a member of a regional trading bloc apart from the tariff - free trade is perhaps the stability it provided our economy which propped up the value of the pound - because that directly impacts the three things that people are entirely dependent on - wages, investment in services and the cost of living.
Confidence in the economy is everything and it's clear that the referendum vote totally undermined everything we had achieved given the substantial devaluation of the pound and the rise of foreign investors snapping up cheap British stocks as reported in FTSE trading since.
Because it's about confidence, the markets don't have to wait until we actually leave the EU - they are responding to the decision now.
Whichever way you stack it up, we have voted for a poorer standard of living because regardless of what may happen in the negotiations - and they aren't looking at all promising - if the world doesn't believe it was a good decision, we get hammered and we'll all be poorer for it, especially when on top of all that we face an additional bill of £billions to set up and run the systems of governance and legislation we were previously getting from the EU.
IMO our biggest loss in leaving the EU is international confidence in Britain - and nobody other than British Brexiteers think leaving the EU is a sensible idea.

93 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Aug 04 2017, 11:34

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Looking on the bright side post brexit we will be eating chlorine washed chicken and meat full of antibiotics, antihistamines and growth hormones banned in the EU because Uncle Sam wouldn't have it any other way.

94 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 19:22

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
JAH wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR
Did nobody ever tell you its rude to shout ? 
What makes you think all the above will finish? (your list looks a bit like me,me,me) There are enough people in this country to ensure these things still go through. We won't become a third world country overnight, and if you had a bit of common sense, you would realise that.

95 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 19:29

karlypants

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:
JAH wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR
Did nobody ever tell you its rude to shout ? 
What makes you think all the above will finish? (your list looks a bit like me,me,me) There are enough people in this country to ensure these things still go through. We won't become a third world country overnight, and if you had a bit of common sense, you would realise that.
:clap:

96 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 19:37

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:Here are 10 benefits of EU membership that we are now giving up:
freedom of UK citizens to live, work and retire anywhere in EU;
access to the Single Market with no tariff barriers or customs procedures;
the EU Working Time Directive which introduced paid holidays for 2 million British employees who did not receive any paid holiday at all and capped the working week at 48 hours;
unified approach to safety regulations regarding drugs, medicine and food labelling;
better rights for workers;
stronger challenge to tax avoiding multi-nationals;
massive subsidies to farming and various poorer regions;
the Good Friday agreement in Ireland;
lots of jobs as various firms migrate their offices/headquarters to the EU.

It is a xenophobic fantasy to describe us as the "whipping boys of Europe". Do you honestly believe that?

We can trade with whoever we want now but we will be in a weaker position to negotiate after we leave. Trump believes in putting America first and why would the EU give us better trading terms than we currently have?

Agreed on all your list, but what makes you think it will all end overnight ?
'Xenophobic' ? really ? Is that instead of calling me racist ? Hhhmmm. 
If you can give me an example of when we managed to push changes through the EU, that mainly benefited the UK, and wasn't either vetoed, or voted down, let me know. Our only worth to the EU, is our money, as politically, we are ignored. The current situation has now given other countries the opportunity to openly insult us. 
I'm fast losing faith with our negotiating team, piss poor performances that are now picked up, and commented on by our so-called 'friends'. Now that we have shown a shambolic front, and we somehow remained in the EU, how would we be seen, and treated ? I think we've shot our bolt with the EU, whatever happens, and trying to cling on to their coat-tails will reduce our standing, and future dealings with all of them.

97 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 20:42

bwfc71

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:Here are 10 benefits of EU membership that we are now giving up:
freedom of UK citizens to live, work and retire anywhere in EU;
access to the Single Market with no tariff barriers or customs procedures;
the EU Working Time Directive which introduced paid holidays for 2 million British employees who did not receive any paid holiday at all and capped the working week at 48 hours;
unified approach to safety regulations regarding drugs, medicine and food labelling;
better rights for workers;
stronger challenge to tax avoiding multi-nationals;
massive subsidies to farming and various poorer regions;
the Good Friday agreement in Ireland;
lots of jobs as various firms migrate their offices/headquarters to the EU.

It is a xenophobic fantasy to describe us as the "whipping boys of Europe". Do you honestly believe that?

We can trade with whoever we want now but we will be in a weaker position to negotiate after we leave. Trump believes in putting America first and why would the EU give us better trading terms than we currently have?

Agreed on all your list, but what makes you think it will all end overnight ?
'Xenophobic' ? really ? Is that instead of calling me racist ? Hhhmmm. 
If you can give me an example of when we managed to push changes through the EU, that mainly benefited the UK, and wasn't either vetoed, or voted down, let me know. Our only worth to the EU, is our money, as politically, we are ignored. The current situation has now given other countries the opportunity to openly insult us. 
I'm fast losing faith with our negotiating team, piss poor performances that are now picked up, and commented on by our so-called 'friends'. Now that we have shown a shambolic front, and we somehow remained in the EU, how would we be seen, and treated ? I think we've shot our bolt with the EU, whatever happens, and trying to cling on to their coat-tails will reduce our standing, and future dealings with all of them.

Politically we are not ignored but like any true democracy the majority vote wins.   It seems that just because little old UK does not get its way then the EU is non-democratic!

What EU officials re now seeing is that the leaders of the UK are on a self-destruct mission to leave the EU and the EU officials are just setting out their goals, whilst the UK are not showing their hand - mainly because there is no hand to show.  Even from our point of view we do seem to be like children not getting their own way - and we are now crying because f it thus trying to make the EU officials give in to our blackmail ideologies of leaving the EU and the deal that the UK wants (again it is down the other 27 other countries whether the deal is agreed or not as it only takes 1 country to say to the deal  and then UK is scuppered without actually walking away - true democracy in action.

Why should the UK be listened to now, UK has given formal notice that we are leaving and as such the EU needs to concentrate on other matters on seeking deals for themselves - rather than giving 100% attention to UK - the irritant of Europe.   Why else would the EU countries be growing far quicker than the UK now, and the UK influence across Europe (including non-EU/EFTA countries) as well in the G8/G20 countries is weakening fast.

If we walk away from the EU with no deal, or if we continue to be the petulant child in any relationship with the EU then no other serious country will want to trade with us in the fear that we walk away from it or become a nuisance in the del - hence we will end up in a situation that the only deals we will get will not be in our favour and it will worsen and weaken, even further, our wold influence and not help the UK financially and push us deeper into debt into a situation that Greece never reached.

Lets not forget that when we joined the EU/EEC we were on our knees and both IMF and World Bank had  stopped lending to us, our Credit Reference was one of the worst in the world and global powers had warned about lending to the UK in case we defaulted or even worse became a bankrupt nation.   This Brexit is now taking us down that road again!

98 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 20:55

Natasha Whittam

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.

99 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 22:37

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.

Norway is indeed a very nice country to live in. However Norway follows most single-market rules drawn up in Brussels and must accept the free movement of EU workers. It also has no say in drawing up these rules and rubber-stamps legislation handed down from the EU. When the EU created the passport-free Schengen zone, for example, Norway had to join to avoid a 1,000-mile hard border with Sweden. It has signed up to agencies that foster co-operation in anti-terrorism, research and defence. Pressed by Brussels, it pays whopping grants to support research projects and civil society in eastern Europe; its per-head payments to the EU approach those of Britain. It joins EU-starred military missions abroad and accepts refugees according to formulae crunched in Brussels.

There is more in this article published by The Economist: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiDjrqXhcHVAhVNblAKHQlcCLEQFggyMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.economist.com%2Fnews%2Feurope%2F21716039-sooner-or-later-britain-will-face-trade-offs-between-sovereignty-and-access-norways-deal&usg=AFQjCNGhF_PI7z3XDrE0NzKqvAxjchXwwA

100 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Aug 05 2017, 23:17

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.
This statement sums up the naivety that allowed the media to push the leave agenda through. Norway and the other Scandinavian states have a massively lower cost base than the UK so it's a more profitable nation than the UK and therefore will never run out of Haribo's whilst they are in demand.

You have to look at income and GDP and divide it by population to get even the most basic "profitability" figure and whilst we have a massive GDP compared to most countries we also have a massive aging population with high unemployment and a skills shortage to pay for.

Norway is the 13th richest country per capita in the world. The UK is 38th. Ireland and the Falkland Islands are richer per capita than the UK.

Which is why our stupidly naive negotiators will get laughed off the park.

101 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 08:36

bwfc71

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:I went to Norway a couple of years ago.

I didn't see people fighting in the streets over the last Haribo, I didn't see people bringing their cash in wheelbarrows to buy one loaf of bread, and I didn't see a country in ruin.

Guess what, they're a European country who aren't in the EU.

They are part of EFTA which means they pay towards the EU, whilst getting no money back in form of grants, and they have to follow all EU main principles such as freedom of work, people and movement.  Therefore to say they are not in the EU is correct but they pay to be part of the single market and allow EU laws.   Why would they need to fight in the streets when they have access to the largest single market I the world and thanks to a low cost base actually make a financial success?

UK has the best option of all European countries, with regards to the EU especially with the many opt-outs we have which no other European country enjoys, and we are no throwing back in their faces - just how do you think other trading nations will feel trading with us knowing that we can break contracts at any time - UK will be a country not to be trusted with trade,

102 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 09:58

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I think Vince Cable makes a good point:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40842017

103 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:09

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
71, I like the cool, calm, and collected way you put forward your points. I don't necessarily agree with them all, but its nice to see.

Regarding Vince Cables remarks, I think he's using very emotive language that doesn't really help, however, having said that, he does make a some good points. I don't believe we, the older generation, have deliberately 'shafted' the younger ones, and oddly enough, some, myself included, feel that we will all be better off in the longer term. I have two daughters, 30 and 37, and I wouldn't deliberately throw a spanner in the works of daily living, if it was to severely affect them, but I would stand up for what I feel is better in the long term, and my age gives me a different perspective on the methods and outcomes. Buying into the 'one size fits all' logic of the EU just doesn't sit right with me.

104 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:16

Bwfc1958

avatar
Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!
gloswhite wrote:71, I like the cool, calm, and collected way you put forward your points. I don't necessarily agree with them all, but its nice to see.
Roughly translated - 

71, you're talking bollocks. You have constructed your bullshit in a very articulate way, but it's bullshit all the same. 

Very Happy

105 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:19

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
I, like my two sons aged 36 and 34, feel that leaving the EU is a big mistake. As for it being "better in the long term", as Keynes said "in the long run we are all dead".

106 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:21

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
58, have you thought of a job in diplomacy ? (just like 71) Very Happy

107 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:25

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
xmiles wrote:I, like my two sons aged 36 and 34, feel that leaving the EU is a big mistake. As for it being "better in the long term", as Keynes said "in the long run we are all dead".
XM, If we all thought like that, we wouldn't do anything. With my daughters, one is for Brexit, and one against. The one for, says nothing, whilst the one against, like me, is depressed about the speed and direction of the discussion, but still feels its right.
Sounds like you're on a downer this morning XM, cheer up, were going to win today  Very Happy

108 Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Aug 06 2017, 10:43

xmiles

avatar
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:I, like my two sons aged 36 and 34, feel that leaving the EU is a big mistake. As for it being "better in the long term", as Keynes said "in the long run we are all dead".
XM, If we all thought like that, we wouldn't do anything. With my daughters, one is for Brexit, and one against. The one for, says nothing, whilst the one against, like me, is depressed about the speed and direction of the discussion, but still feels its right.
Sounds like you're on a downer this morning XM, cheer up, were going to win today  Very Happy

Beating Leeds would certainly cheer me up!

109 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Aug 07 2017, 10:56

xmiles

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Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

110 Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Aug 07 2017, 11:35

Norpig

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John McGinlay
John McGinlay
Not surprised at all, blame Thatcher Lite for calling an unneccessary election and weakening her own position and the country as a whole.

111 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Aug 08 2017, 15:07

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Anybody surprised?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40846830
On the day that true figure for UK payments to the EU is released (less than half the number that appeared on the Leave campaign bus) it's surprising that they are blaming the poor start to negotiations on the Cabinet disagreeing on what we actually want. 

Could there be a more compelling case for the Government to admit that Brexit is an absolute shambles? As well as a disgrace.

112 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Aug 15 2017, 10:15

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
After confirming last week that the UK will be leaving the customs union, UK negotiators now proposing a "temporary" customs union during Brexit.

Assuming that the penny still hasn't dropped, presumably they think this will be to buy some time whilst they seek to negotiate 27 separate tariff deals?

I don't see why they can't try to secure a bloc deal covering all of the EU whilst they are sat at the table with them. Technically that would mean we have left the customs union in line with the current political dogma but would have the advantage of minimising the impact of the coming administrative nightmare for British exporters. Obviously the best way forward would be to stick with the excellent deals we already have but that wouldn't be politically acceptable to the Tories so I guess the nation will just have to take the economic hit in order to secure the Tories' political posture.

113 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Aug 30 2017, 13:29

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Starting to look as though the "mood music" of the Brexit negotiations is changing. The Government have already softened their stance since negotiations began and the press gave a fair amount of coverage to the more obvious positional changes where the timescale for change has been stretched to accommodate "transitional arrangements" in e.g. ECJ jurisdiction and leaving the Single Market.

Naively, IMO, the negotiating team worked out a load of compromises and embodied them in the proposals they handed to the EU earlier in the week.

Barnier's response which was basically that the Brits haven't a clue seems to have been passed over relatively lightly by the press so I'm wondering if they are still missing the point?

Today, both sides announced that they felt more progress needs to be made but surely the media should have picked up on what lies behind Barnier's general negativity towards the UK proposals i.e. 

1. Timescale: The EU is under no political pressure to conclude a deal with the UK - ever. Why should they? Things are going really well for them both economically and politically - it's the Brits who have the weight of an expectant nation on their shoulders and a timescale which I imagine Barnier will milk to death.
2. Need for a trade deal: The EU doesn't need a new trade deal with the UK anywhere near as much as the UK needs a new trade deal with them. The existing trade deal works well enough for the EU (as it does for the UK IMO) however the Government have committed to tearing up the agreements and starting again so again it is only the UK negotiators that are under pressure while the EU wouldn't give a monkeys if nothing changes.
3. Political capital/PR: All Barnier has to do is to say that they want progress and they want it soon but the Brits are stalling things with their silly demands and that will get him all the political capital he needs in Europe. Behind the scenes he can stall progress until the cow's come home and will always have the get out of jail card and the moral high ground as far as Europeans are concerned. On the other hand, our Government has to make things happen and is on a hiding to nothing as they are dependent on the goodwill of the EU negotiators to conclude any deal - it's effectively out of their control. The negotiators have already watered down what they promised Leave voters and it's going to get a lot worse as time drags on so their political capital is going to take a battering.

Why is it that the British press are very quick to defend every dilution of what was promised and yet fail to pick up on the fundamental underlying point i.e. the UK has an impossibly weak bargaining position - trying to negotiate with someone who isn't arsed about reaching a conclusion or striking a deal?

114 Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Aug 30 2017, 22:15

gloswhite

avatar
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
Just a thought: do you not think the direction these talks are going in was not seen by the government, and that is why, pre-election cock-up, the PM was saying that we would take a hard exit ? By doing so they removed the wriggle room from the table and put the emphasis on the Europeans to at least talk to us. At the moment we have squandered any moral high ground or, in truth, a strong negotiating stance. However, at the end of all this, the EU will still have to come to the table, as they will suffer as much as us, if they continue as they are. We have shot ourselves in the foot, and the EU is gaining political points, but it won't count for anything eventually.

115 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 31 2017, 01:43

Bollotom2014

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Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Be interesting to see how Macron will handle labour reforms. He was going to crack a nut but now appears to be back pedalling a bit. Interesting times ahead.

116 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Aug 31 2017, 10:38

wanderlust

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Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
gloswhite wrote:Just a thought: do you not think the direction these talks are going in was not seen by the government, and that is why, pre-election cock-up, the PM was saying that we would take a hard exit ?
If we want any kind of agreement whether it's hard, soft or semi-tumescent and regardless of whether it relates to trade tariffs, border control, fishing rights, legal governance, international financing, cooperative projects in e.g. the sciences or military, Gibraltar/Brits abroad or whatever - we can't just decide what we want and expect to get it without compromise.  

Moreover the point that seems to be missed in the British media is that the EU doesn't need to do anything or agree anything so they can demand whatever they want from the UK and it doesn't matter a monkey's about May and Davies' political posturing or the vanity of the media.

At the end of the day, the UK will get whatever the EU is gracious enough to give us - and if Barnier's tone is anything to go by it will be a right royal shafting.

117 Re: Brexit negotiations on Fri Sep 01 2017, 14:20

JAH

avatar
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
gloswhite wrote:
JAH wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR
Did nobody ever tell you its rude to shout ? 
What makes you think all the above will finish? (your list looks a bit like me,me,me) There are enough people in this country to ensure these things still go through. We won't become a third world country overnight, and if you had a bit of common sense, you would realise that.

Hey old timer! Steady there on the throwing around of insults! It was a copy and paste on the fly, but they are all facts of the things that that the EU have given us, not what we are losing. I think maybe your Brexiteer rage still hasn't subsided as it didn't take long to pop your top on this one! Anyway, you Brexiteers don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant! 

(Bit of internet schooling for you Glos) If I was shouting I would've put exclamation marks at the end of each line. I didn't and I wasn't.

So Glos, you represent the prime Brexiteer demographic. You were born after the war, so had no experience of the struggles during it and then joys after it when Europe came together in the celebration of peace. Your generation has taken all the pensions, all the houses and among other things you have now taken away our generation's right to live and work in any country in the European Union. You and your Brexiteer demographic are all takers and have always taken and don't want to give anything back. A generation of bitter people, not all mind, but the largest majority demographically speaking. The interesting thing is your parents generation and those only 15 years older than you generally voted to remain in Europe because they can remember why the EU was first put together and they know the pain of a divided Europe from first hand experiences.  

Well according to the ONS figures you and your Brexiteer ilk will be dead in 20 years or less and our generation, if we haven't gone back into Europe by then anyway, will be able to re-run the referendum without your poison retoric involved. The Daily Mail are already panicking as they can't reach the internet generation or influence them through the pedaling of the usual right wing lies. Do you think anyone will ever trust a slogan on the side of a bus again?????? 

In the meantime ponder this......

The result of the Referendum was the following:

Leave   17,410,742           51.89%
Remain 16,141,241           48.11%

According to current estimates there are 1.4million British ex-pats in Europe who, criminally, were not allowed to vote in the Referendum. A Referendum where the outcome directly affects their everyday life. They have seen '000s wiped off the value of their pensions by the collapse of our currency off the back of the vote and put their healthcare now at risk of being withdrawn. 

Had they been allowed to vote, the result of this stitch-up job by the right wing press and the Tory party would not have been passed and we would still be a part of the largest free-trading block in the world.

118 Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Sep 05 2017, 22:27

y2johnny

avatar
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

http://Www.thefacefittester.co.uk

119 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Sep 07 2017, 11:25

wanderlust

avatar
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I think May has shot herself in the foot again. 
The Government have approached big business to ask them to endorse Brexit which under normal circumstances would be a sensible move and would give the Government's PR machine something positive to work with.
Unfortunately, big business has exactly the same problem with Brexit as the rest of us do i.e. we don't know what we're getting into and so far the signs have not been good, so whilst a few tame companies might endorse the Government, most won't - at least not until some progress is made. And without huge concessions from the Government it's unlikely progress will be made, so it's shaping up like another bad move, made worse by the fact that the letter was released into the public domain and now they're denying it (because they didn't get the response they were hoping for?)

Article (BBC):

Downing Street has approached some of the UK's biggest companies, asking them to give public backing to the government's approach to Brexit.
Business leaders are being asked to sign a letter expressing support, a copy of which has been seen by BBC business editor Simon Jack.
However, some leaders said they are reluctant to support a strategy that lacks clarity.
Number 10 has declined to comment on the existence of the letter.
The letter asserts that now is the right time for employers to work with government to make it a success.
It also says the signatories welcome the government's commitment to negotiating an interim period after the formal exit date and would bring their expertise in international trade to bear on the government efforts to create future relationships outside the EU.
Several potential signatories contacted by the BBC said that while they supported the idea of bringing government and business closer together, they expressed reluctance to give unconditional support for a government negotiating strategy which they felt lacked clarity.
As one FTSE chairman told our business editor, it is dangerous to ask a question when you are not sure what the answer will be.

120 Re: Brexit negotiations on Thu Sep 07 2017, 22:46

gloswhite

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Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
JAH wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
JAH wrote:
gloswhite wrote:XM, whereas I can see your desire to have us chained to a lumbering, unelected, and some say doomed, entity, have you not considered that they are not the be all and end all of world trade and politics? Just because we are neighbours, doesn't mean we have to follow slavishly, the same ideals and political views as the EU. its fairly well known, that we had very little voice in any major decisions for the past few years anyway. They have our money, and our commitments, but tend not to entertain our views or ideals. 
Tell me, in a couple of sentences, leaving out the supposed financial benefits/drawbacks, how it is better for us in the EU ?

EASY TRAVEL
LIVING ABROAD
EQUAL PAY & NON-DISCRIMINATION
PAID LEAVE
FOREIGN STUDY
CHEAP FLIGHTS
CHEAP TELEPHONE CALLS
CONSUMER PROTECTION
FOOD LABELLING
CLEAN RIVERS AND CLEAN AIR
Did nobody ever tell you its rude to shout ? 
What makes you think all the above will finish? (your list looks a bit like me,me,me) There are enough people in this country to ensure these things still go through. We won't become a third world country overnight, and if you had a bit of common sense, you would realise that.

Hey old timer! Steady there on the throwing around of insults! It was a copy and paste on the fly, but they are all facts of the things that that the EU have given us, not what we are losing. I think maybe your Brexiteer rage still hasn't subsided as it didn't take long to pop your top on this one! Anyway, you Brexiteers don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant! 

(Bit of internet schooling for you Glos) If I was shouting I would've put exclamation marks at the end of each line. I didn't and I wasn't.

So Glos, you represent the prime Brexiteer demographic. You were born after the war, so had no experience of the struggles during it and then joys after it when Europe came together in the celebration of peace. Your generation has taken all the pensions, all the houses and among other things you have now taken away our generation's right to live and work in any country in the European Union. You and your Brexiteer demographic are all takers and have always taken and don't want to give anything back. A generation of bitter people, not all mind, but the largest majority demographically speaking. The interesting thing is your parents generation and those only 15 years older than you generally voted to remain in Europe because they can remember why the EU was first put together and they know the pain of a divided Europe from first hand experiences.  

Well according to the ONS figures you and your Brexiteer ilk will be dead in 20 years or less and our generation, if we haven't gone back into Europe by then anyway, will be able to re-run the referendum without your poison retoric involved. The Daily Mail are already panicking as they can't reach the internet generation or influence them through the pedaling of the usual right wing lies. Do you think anyone will ever trust a slogan on the side of a bus again?????? 

In the meantime ponder this......

The result of the Referendum was the following:

Leave   17,410,742           51.89%
Remain 16,141,241           48.11%

According to current estimates there are 1.4million British ex-pats in Europe who, criminally, were not allowed to vote in the Referendum. A Referendum where the outcome directly affects their everyday life. They have seen '000s wiped off the value of their pensions by the collapse of our currency off the back of the vote and put their healthcare now at risk of being withdrawn. 

Had they been allowed to vote, the result of this stitch-up job by the right wing press and the Tory party would not have been passed and we would still be a part of the largest free-trading block in the world.
JAH,

Just got back from holiday, to see this drivel. Who the fuck do you think you are to speak to me like this ? Because I voted for Brexit, you think I deserve all this inane spouting. Grow up, and stop blaming others for your inadequacies, and don't patronise me, you dick.
I may be an 'old timer', as you rather childishly put it, but at least I've made a contribution, which, by the sounds of it, you have yet to do. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and blaming people who have paid their way, with a full working life, planning ahead, and having to get on with it through both good and bad times.

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