Steven Gerrard - England great?

bwfc1874 wrote:

He would walk into any England team at any time on his performances for his club.

If we'd used him correctly in his prime we would of got far more out of him for England too.

The 'everyone and everything is crap' theme is getting pretty boring now, you need a new angle!

I said he was a good player but not a legend. Apologies if you consider that to be WUMing.

I never said WUMing, I just explained why Im considering leaving the Whittam fan club.

Steven Gerrard said in an interview that he isn't an England great.

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I agree with him.

bwfc1874 wrote:Who was the best midfielder in the world 05-07? I really can't think of anybody that tops Gerrard.

He achieved far more than a dive in the champions league final. Being man of the match in that final for one, playing right back for part of the game.

He had everything, this threads made me realise just how good he was!

Zidane? Ronaldinho? Rivaldo?

Maybe not Rivaldo, but the other two - no question.

There was also Ronaldo, Figo, Deco, Xavi, Kaka and of course people like Pirlo and Nedved.

Okay fair enough, I was thinking more of central midfielder like Gerrard but,

Ronaldinho- No played wing/forward so I wouldn't call him a midfielder to be honest.

Rivaldo- not in a million years, he was a winger/forward too and playing for olympiacos at the time.

Zidane's a better shout, but 2006 was his last season and certainly wasn't at the peak of his powers. Maybe better than Gerrard but I wouldn't call it clear cut.

They all play in midfield, attacking midfield.

Zidane, Xavi and Kaka were all miles better than Gerrard, Pirlo was too.

Xavi wasn't better than Gerrard at that point, he is now but not then.

Figo was at Inter and past his best,

Kaka maybe

Pirlo no

Deco no chance

Nedved no chance

Look at what Gerrard achieved in those years he was best midfielder in the world at that point IMO.

Had any of those players you've named been English we'd be having the same conversation about most of them. Seeing the odd clip of Pirlo or Nedved scoring a wondergoal in Italy is one thing, had we watched them every week in England and then seen them disappoint for our national team we would have a competely different opinion of them. In reality it's impossible to compare two players in different leagues etc but my opinion is Gerrard was better than most if not all of them at that point.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:They all play in midfield, attacking midfield.

Zidane, Xavi and Kaka were all miles better than Gerrard, Pirlo was too.

I would never class Xavi or Pirlo as attacking midfielders.

One of Gerrards strengths was his versatility he could play defensive, attacking, box to box whatever that's part of the reason I rate him so highly

well it's all subjective but i strongly disagree that Gerrard was better than any of them people i've named.

Pirlo took the absolute piss out of Gerrard this summer on the biggest stage.

You could even argue Lampard was one of the best, look at his scoring record. Certainly pushes Gerrard for me.

Pretty much agree with bwfc:

Xavi, he wasn't better at that point

Figo, old - no

Kaka, no!

Pirlo no way

Deco no chance

Nedved no chance

Zidane, yeah he probably was


The point bwfc made about it being difficult to compare players from different leagues is a good one as its pretty true.

But it also poses the question that hasn't the premier league been the best worldwide in the last decade? I certainly think that can't be argued, id even say it still is. And Gerrard has been one of the most consistently superb performers of it, even from that list many of those players have had long period of off form, in worse leagues, probably with better players surrounding them (at least in comparison with the rest of their leagues players). Gerrard has never had a really bad run of form.



Surely the very fact that hes being compared to the likes of the above show he isn't really overrated, it would be like saying Ronaldo is overrated because you think Messi is better

I don't think you can really become a world great. Just my opinion, until you prove yourself on the biggest stage. The Euros or the World Cup.

I think Ronaldo went a long way to doing just that this summer, Messi is still yet do it. Zidane, Xavi, Pirlo have all done it.

Gerrard.... lol.

All he's done is disappear and miss crucial penalties. Again i'll have to disagree with you about Xavi, Kaka and Pirlo. They were all better than Gerrard for me and still are. Kaka obviously on the wane now thanks to injuries.

Pirlo embarrassed england and Gerrard in the Euros... what more evidence do you need. And that was a very average Italy side who most were saying "england will thrash" before hand.

I'm sure there'll be some excuse but thems the facts. And for the record I do think Gerrard is a top top player, one of the premier league standouts but i won't go as far as to say "best in the world" thats it.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:I don't think you can really become a world great. Just my opinion, until you prove yourself on the biggest stage. The Euros or the World Cup.

I think Ronaldo went a long way to doing just that this summer, Messi is still yet do it. Zidane, Xavi, Pirlo have all done it.

Gerrard.... lol.

All he's done is disappear and miss crucial penalties. Again i'll have to disagree with you about Xavi, Kaka and Pirlo. They were all better than Gerrard for me and still are. Kaka obviously on the wane now thanks to injuries.

Pirlo embarrassed england and Gerrard in the Euros... what more evidence do you need. And that was a very average Italy side who most were saying "england will thrash" before hand.

I'm sure there'll be some excuse but thems the facts. And for the record I do think Gerrard is a top top player, one of the premier league standouts but i won't go as far as to say "best in the world" thats it.

You hate anything English.

Nope I don't, i think Wilshere is a top top class player and has all the skills to be a world best. Love watching him play. Hope injuries don't derail his career.

It just bugs when good players are deemed great simply because they're English.

Look at Joe Hart "best goalie in the world"

Leighton Bains was called "the best in the world" on Soccer Saturday the other week, Ashley Cole, John Terry, Rio, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard have all been called "the best in the world at some point, and internationally have won fuck... all.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Nope I don't, i think Wilshere is a top top class player and has all the skills to be a world best. Love watching him play. Hope injuries don't derail his career.

It just bugs when good players are deemed great simply because they're English.

Look at Joe Hart "best goalie in the world"

Leighton Bains was called "the best in the world" on Soccer Saturday the other week, Ashley Cole, John Terry, Rio, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard have all been called "the best in the world at some point, and internationally have won fuck... all.

You idiot, you can be the best in the world and never win a thing. If you're surrouned by average players you're never going to win the world cup even if you're better than Pele.

lol "surrounded by average players"

even though in every position the England team have "the best player in the world"

The best goalie, left back, center midfield partnership, best winger, best striker (rooney)

Average?

Hipster_Nebula wrote:lol "surrounded by average players"

even though in every position the England team have "the best player in the world"

The best goalie, left back, center midfield partnership, best winger, best striker (rooney)

Average?

The England team has been average for years, with one or two exceptions. Don't try and make out it's anything else.

Thanks for proving my point.

My argument is they are average (in the main) and are consistently overrated by the media. I'm not saying Rooney, Gerrard and Beckham aren't top players but they're not the best in the world.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Thanks for proving my point.

My argument is they are average (in the main) and are consistently overrated by the media. I'm not saying Rooney, Gerrard and Beckham aren't top players but they're not the best in the world.

Beckham was the best crosser/dead ball taker for many years.