Steven Gerrard - England great?

I agree, he was. But he wasn't the best mid/winger in the world because he was one dimensional. Top top player though.

England Great - I think a 100 caps qualifies you for being an England Great, don't think that he can be called World Class though or one of the best in the world. Very good player no doubt but accolades are thrown about like confetti these days.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:They all play in midfield, attacking midfield.

Zidane, Xavi and Kaka were all miles better than Gerrard, Pirlo was too.

Much as I hate to say it but I have to agree. Fabregas is probably a better midfielder than Gerrard as well.

If I had a choice between Lampard or Gerrard then I would have have to plump for Lampard simply because he scored more goals.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:They all play in midfield, attacking midfield.

Zidane, Xavi and Kaka were all miles better than Gerrard, Pirlo was too.

Much as I hate to say it but I have to agree. Fabregas is probably a better midfielder than Gerrard as well.

If I had a choice between Lampard or Gerrard then I would have have to plump for Lampard simply because he scored more goals.

Fabregas wasn't a better midfielder 05-07, that's the point.

The argument of Pirlo outplaying Gerrard in England v Italy is redundant too, Gerrard's way past his best now, and he was playing for an England team that were garbage as a team that game lets face it.

Gerrard was world class, he did it on the biggest stage of all (the champions league) and consistently in the toughest league in the world by a mile, especially during that period.

If he'd been an Italian/Spanish/French he'd be lauded as one of the best ever by everyone in Britain, it's just become fashionable for people to put the England team and English players down because of their lack of success at major tournaments.

Gerrard would have walked into any national team in the world during those years, it's undeniable.

We do produce world class players, Paul Scholes never did it for England, was he not world class?? Ryan Giggs has never played in a major tournament, nor did George Best so what?

I'd say Messi is better than anyone I've ever seen play, he hasn't won anything with Argentina, so what does that mean? fuck all.

Players should be judged on how they play domestically, the champions league is the highest quality of football in the world, if you can do it there your world class.

Just because Gerrard can pass, shoot and cross doesn't mean he should be compared to players like Xavi, Zidane and Kaka - none of whom are anywhere near as good as Gerrard when it comes to putting themselves about, tackling back to break up attacks or generally making a nuisance of themselves when they haven't got possession. Playing for England in particular, who have never been that good at retaining the ball compared to the teams those guys played for has meant that Gerrard has been a worker more than an artist, and that's what he's good at - putting the miles in and sticking his lanky legs in to break up attacks. If you compare him to midfield destroyers like Gattuso for example, he is right up there. It just happens that he can also be creative and occasionally attack-minded as well. But fundamentally he is a box to box player contributing to both defense and attack - an all-rounder. I think Gerrard plays 2 roles, both well - not the absolute best at either but TBF his overall performances have been superb - it's just that his work rate often goes unnoticed. There are very few players who can do what Gerrard does and if anything he compares favourably with most if not all of them.

Well if you take the Ballon D'or as a snapshot Gerrard was nominated once in 05 and received less votes than Lampard and Ronaldinho, i happen to agree with that seeding personally.

In that period Ronaldinho was absolutely imperious, i don't think there was anyone that could challenge him tbh.

In 07 Kaka won the award after winning the CL, in terms of natural talent Kaka is far far superior and cultured than Gerrard, perhaps not so much of a "bruiser" but technically better.

In 03 Deco finished second after guiding Porto to an incredible Champions league victory, he was outstanding that year.

Gerrard is a better player than Deco but if the champs league is the highest standard then Deco proved he was world class that year.

So if you take the 05-07 period in question i would suggest Gerrard was bettered only by Ronaldinho, Lampard and Kaka, but he was certainly in that conversation.

As you say it's subjective. I also think that there are a lot of great players who quietly get on with the job without getting the recognition they deserve especially if they don't play in a "glamour position" or are busy doing the graft required.

wanderlust wrote:As you say it's subjective. I also think that there are a lot of great players who quietly get on with the job without getting the recognition they deserve especially if they don't play in a "glamour position" or are busy doing the graft required.

Kevin Nolan ?

Off topic but nobody ever go to the bottom of why Nolan left us so quickly, it literally seemed to happen over night and was sold very cheaply considering he was the captain at the time.

I blame Megson

From what I gathered it was a board decision to sell, as soon as the bid came in we accepted and he ended speaking with newcastle. Unless megson had him on the transfer list without the fans knowing.

It did happen rather quickly.

TBF he hadn't been playing with his usual swagger for a while and I suspect it's because his natural game of getting forward (notice how he gets a lot of goals playing as an extra striker almost) was suppressed, particularly by Megson. I don't think Nolan was happy with the system we were playing and I'd imagine that he'd had enough so was a willing participant. He had a good relationship with Fat Sam and probably jumped at the chance to leave.

I was happy to see Nolan go at the time to be honest, he hadn't played well for us for a long time, I felt he'd had it.

Proved himself to be a useful player at Newcastle and West Ham but I think the only position he can play is off a target man, I don't think his overall game is good enough to play center mid, slow immobile and poor passer. Great finisher though.

aaron_bwfc wrote:Off topic but nobody ever go to the bottom of why Nolan left us so quickly, it literally seemed to happen over night and was sold very cheaply considering he was the captain at the time.

He was absolutely awful at the time, £5m was a silly offer and Bolton rightly made it happen quickly.

If Gerrard was half the player the tabloids make him out to be he would have been signed by Utd. or Chelsea or even Arsenal years ago. City would have signed him when they went on their loony spending spree.



The fact that he's got 100 caps doesn't prove that he's a great player, only that the players in England are very average as results over the last 50yrs show.

chipbutty wrote:If Gerrard was half the player the tabloids make him out to be he would have been signed by Utd. or Chelsea or even Arsenal years ago. City would have signed him when they went on their loony spending spree.

Probably the worst argument I've ever read. What a load of rubbish.

He was all set to move to Chelsea but turned them down at the 11th hour.

he would be a multiple premier league winner if he had left.

commendable in one respect, a bit daft in another.

74,

I gave my reasons for believing that Gerrard has never been a world class player. Agree or disagree with me, I don't care.

But at least I gave reasons for my beliefs unlike yourself.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:He was all set to move to Chelsea but turned them down at the 11th hour.

he would be a multiple premier league winner if he had left.

commendable in one respect, a bit daft in another.

Hip, had Chelsea wanted him that much they would have made an offer he ...... ......