Bolton 0-0 Sheff Weds

wanderlust wrote:

y2johnny wrote:just to back up my argument a little bit we are currently 12th in the table with chances created.
we are 10th in terms of number of shots we have taken, 66 inside the area and 26 from outside the area.
shot accuracy 33% which puts us in 22nd.  like i said, we need a goal scorer.

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Is there a stat for "shots on target that actually have a chance of beating the goalie"?
This looks like a record of not getting behind the defence so being forced to take a hopeful punt that dribbles towards the goalie or hits any one of the 8 defenders they have between us and the goal. Or given the shot accuracy stat, sails high and wide.

What we need are good chances and good execution.

we have come close plenty of times, there have been plenty of "good" chances, the problem we have is that we haven't had anyone to put them away.  Admittedly we would have probably had a lot fewer without young silva

y2johnny wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

y2johnny wrote:just to back up my argument a little bit we are currently 12th in the table with chances created.
we are 10th in terms of number of shots we have taken, 66 inside the area and 26 from outside the area.
shot accuracy 33% which puts us in 22nd.  like i said, we need a goal scorer.

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Is there a stat for "shots on target that actually have a chance of beating the goalie"?
This looks like a record of not getting behind the defence so being forced to take a hopeful punt that dribbles towards the goalie or hits any one of the 8 defenders they have between us and the goal. Or given the shot accuracy stat, sails high and wide.

What we need are good chances and good execution.

we have come close plenty of times, there have been plenty of "good" chances, the problem we have is that we haven't had anyone to put them away.  Admittedly we would have probably had a lot fewer without young silva

A couple of headers over the bar, a missed pen, the occasional shot but realistically we haven't exactly been battering at the door for long periods and this is due to the system of aiming for a target man then waiting for support to arrive IMO.

I van remember Madine being put through on goal maybe twice in total in all games so far. None of those times were proper nailed on one on one chances, more like half chances. Yes there have been a couple of headers which hit the bar but that's about it.

We don't create clear cut chances which you can say ought to have resulted in goals.

Biggie wrote:I van remember Madine being put through on goal maybe twice in total in all games so far. None of those times were proper nailed on one on one chances, more like half chances. Yes there have been a couple of headers which hit the bar but that's about it.

We don't create clear cut chances which you can say ought to have resulted in goals.

Seriously, shut the fuck up.

He's had numerous chances, one header where it was harder to miss than score. Oh, and that penalty was pretty fucking easy.

What's going on with you Nat? Used to you being rude in a humorous way, this is just outright abuse.

To be honest i hope biggie is the one joking.

bwfc1874 wrote:What's going on with you Nat? Used to you being rude in a humorous way, this is just outright abuse.

Let's just say I owe Biggie a punch in the face.

...and I know why. 

It's not just down to Madine missing a few chances (although TBF 2 were sitters) but the overall quantity and quality of the chances created. i don't believe the front six are quick enough, skilful enough or have good enough movement to break down defences often enough and that's in part due to the players we have (not something we can do much about) and in part down to the ponderous system Neil prefers - which can be changed, even if it means promoting kids or fringe players more capable of executing a different system.
Clough's injury could force his hand but he's far more likely to stick with a target man and wingers. but I think he needs to experiment with movement, rotation and selection to make us less predictable.

wanderlust wrote:It's not just down to Madine missing a few chances (although TBF 2 were sitters) but the overall quantity and quality of the chances created. i don't believe the front six are quick enough, skilful enough or have good enough movement to break down defences often enough and that's in part due to the players we have (not something we can do much about) and in part down to the ponderous system Neil prefers - which can be changed, even if it means promoting kids or fringe players more capable of executing a different system.
Clough's injury could force his hand but he's far more likely to stick with a target man and wingers. but I think he needs to experiment with movement, rotation and selection to make us less predictable.

yeah ok.  because the three chances they put on the football league show every week is good enough for a a balanced argument.

y2johnny wrote:

wanderlust wrote:It's not just down to Madine missing a few chances (although TBF 2 were sitters) but the overall quantity and quality of the chances created. i don't believe the front six are quick enough, skilful enough or have good enough movement to break down defences often enough and that's in part due to the players we have (not something we can do much about) and in part down to the ponderous system Neil prefers - which can be changed, even if it means promoting kids or fringe players more capable of executing a different system.
Clough's injury could force his hand but he's far more likely to stick with a target man and wingers. but I think he needs to experiment with movement, rotation and selection to make us less predictable.

yeah ok.  because the three chances they put on the football league show every week is good enough for a a balanced argument.

I thought Hipster was Nat's "armchair fan" character?

wanderlust wrote:

y2johnny wrote:

wanderlust wrote:It's not just down to Madine missing a few chances (although TBF 2 were sitters) but the overall quantity and quality of the chances created. i don't believe the front six are quick enough, skilful enough or have good enough movement to break down defences often enough and that's in part due to the players we have (not something we can do much about) and in part down to the ponderous system Neil prefers - which can be changed, even if it means promoting kids or fringe players more capable of executing a different system.
Clough's injury could force his hand but he's far more likely to stick with a target man and wingers. but I think he needs to experiment with movement, rotation and selection to make us less predictable.

yeah ok.  because the three chances they put on the football league show every week is good enough for a a balanced argument.

I thought Hipster was Nat's "armchair fan" character?

Ok lusty. So how many of the games have you watched the full 90 minutes of this season to be able to deduce that we aren't creating enough?

y2johnny wrote:

Ok lusty.  So how many of the games have you watched the full 90 minutes of this season to be able to deduce that we aren't creating enough?

How dare you diss the armchair!

Natasha Whittam wrote:

y2johnny wrote:

Ok lusty.  So how many of the games have you watched the full 90 minutes of this season to be able to deduce that we aren't creating enough?

How dare you diss the armchair!

Sorry. I know thats your job.  Im just really eager to hear his EXPERT opinion based on 1 minute 30 seconds of highlights a week

I watched 90 mins of every match so far this season. I'm not impressed with the quality of the chances we create.

Put it this way, if a team created the same quality of chances against us we would be pretty happy with our defence keeping them so quiet.

I watched Arsenal on MOTD and they had 29 shots. About ten of them were clear cut chances. They scored 2.

Point out a game other than Wolves or Forest in which we created more than 2 clear cut chances.

Erm, didn't we have 15+ shots on target against MK Dons and burton Albion?

Perhaps. My point is still valid in any case.

Personally I've seen the home matches and the Blackburn away match and can't think of many clear cut chances we've had at all.

That said, I think Madine's had a number of at least half chances - not forgetting the penalty as well - and shown absolutely no intelligence or composure in any of those situations whatsoever. It's not like he should have five goals already, but I do think an average Championship striker would be on at least two with the opportunities he's had.

Let's have a look at the highlights of the last few matches:

Sheffield Wednesday:

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1:58: Feeney chips it into Madine. Instead of trying to control it with his chest or left foot probably giving him a good shooting chance, he turns away from goal, controls it with his right, and he can then only hold it up for a few seconds before passing it back to Moxey who's in a poor attacking position.

6:05 Feeney crosses it into Prince, Prince heads it towards goal, Madine heads it over. It's not the easiest header to control, but you have to wonder if he's made it look harder than it was.

Wolves:

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2:01: Ball bounces awkwardly but if Madine controls it well he's away. He heads it down. He's under pressure from the keeper and a defender to his right, but he's got a clear shot of goal on his left. He doesn't bother taking it on his left, he just stabs it pathetically wide with his right.

I can't find the extended highlights for the Blackburn match but I can think of at least one instance where he could have volleyed it towards goal from an angle or pulled it back for somebody unmarked and he just gave it away cheaply.

He has got some useful qualities but in terms of putting the ball in the net it's been a long time since I had this little confidence in a Bolton striker, and that's saying something.

but again, maybe it is the striker/goalscorer we need to get into the right positions to have clear cut chances.