Could the future of BWFC lie in the hands of the players?

This is probably one of the more out there posts regarding our current situation.  At the moment the team is a shambles, 12 to 14k at the gates for a home game and the threat of administration chasing us down like dog the bounty hunter chases bail jumpers.  (want some crystal Brah!)

Anyway, the point i will make is this.  IF the team was actually giving the fans  something to cheer about, and at least looking like they wanted to win, would this in turn increase the gates and the money available for paying their extortionate wages?

The gates is only a guess at what we get, but an extra 10,000 fans at 3 home games a month spending on average £25 a ticket plus let's just say another £10 on parking, programmes, food and drink, would bring in an extra £1,050,000.

So, with that in mind, going forward, if the players want paying, they have to make it entertaining and fill the Macron.  New contracts need to be dished out and the players need to start earning their wedge!

The future of the club does indeed lie with the players Johnny but not in the way you mean.

The biggest single running cost of the club is their wages - something will have to be done about this before we move on.

They either have to collectively accept a massive reduction in them or leave the club - it's as simple as that really.

If they don't want to take a reduction, then the club can't afford to pay them, it goes into Administration and the Administrator try's to move them on to another club and if failing that end their contracts with us.

If they do take a massive reduction the club can be sold and possibly the new owners will ultimately make up their loss in earnings at a later date.

The ball is in their court.







(Knowing our lot they will more likely blast it miles over the bar from 30 yards and call everyone a fucking prick!)

y2johnny wrote:This is probably one of the more out there posts regarding our current situation.  At the moment the team is a shambles, 12 to 14k at the gates for a home game and the threat of administration chasing us down like dog the bounty hunter chases bail jumpers.  (want some crystal Brah!)

Anyway, the point i will make is this.  IF the team was actually giving the fans  something to cheer about, and at least looking like they wanted to win, would this in turn increase the gates and the money available for paying their extortionate wages?

The gates is only a guess at what we get, but an extra 10,000 fans at 3 home games a month spending on average £25 a ticket plus let's just say another £10 on parking, programmes, food and drink, would bring in an extra £1,050,000.

So, with that in mind, going forward, if the players want paying, they have to make it entertaining and fill the Macron.  New contracts need to be dished out and the players need to start earning their wedge!

hi y2j, interesting post. I don't know the demographics of the crowd, but think your av of £25 per ticket quite high when taken in conjunction with concessions, and your £10 add on spend quite realistic. But going with your figures, and leaving aside for now whether or not 10k additional is possible (think cold Tuesday Feb nights!) the maths takes a first hit because of HMRC. 20% of all your figures goes in VAT. There will be enhanced safety requirements in terms of stewards per 100 extra, other than parking, the profit in your £10 add on spend devalued by cost of ingredients for food, extra staff etc, programmes do well to cover cost of printing, booze will have a higher margin but there will be extra licensing costs for more alcohol sales etc etc. I know I have my gloom and doom hat on today, but the practicalities to me show even an additional 10k people through the doors for 3 home game a month (not achievable in my mind) would give the club an extra £300-350k max money to offset its £1m per month loss. Makes you think dunnit.

Chairmanda wrote:

y2johnny wrote:This is probably one of the more out there posts regarding our current situation.  At the moment the team is a shambles, 12 to 14k at the gates for a home game and the threat of administration chasing us down like dog the bounty hunter chases bail jumpers.  (want some crystal Brah!)

Anyway, the point i will make is this.  IF the team was actually giving the fans  something to cheer about, and at least looking like they wanted to win, would this in turn increase the gates and the money available for paying their extortionate wages?

The gates is only a guess at what we get, but an extra 10,000 fans at 3 home games a month spending on average £25 a ticket plus let's just say another £10 on parking, programmes, food and drink, would bring in an extra £1,050,000.

So, with that in mind, going forward, if the players want paying, they have to make it entertaining and fill the Macron.  New contracts need to be dished out and the players need to start earning their wedge!

hi y2j, interesting post. I don't know the demographics of the crowd, but think your av of £25 per ticket quite high when taken in conjunction with concessions, and your £10 add on spend quite realistic. But going with your figures, and leaving aside for now whether or not 10k additional is possible (think cold Tuesday Feb nights!) the maths takes a first hit because of HMRC. 20% of all your figures goes in VAT. There will be enhanced safety requirements in terms of stewards per 100 extra, other than parking, the profit in your £10 add on spend devalued by cost of ingredients for food, extra staff etc, programmes do well to cover cost of printing, booze will have a higher margin but there will be extra licensing costs for more alcohol sales etc etc. I know I have my gloom and doom hat on today, but the practicalities to me show even an additional 10k people through the doors for 3 home game a month (not achievable in my mind) would give the club an extra £300-350k max money to offset its £1m per month loss. Makes you think dunnit.

just off to take a bath with a toaster

Chairmanda wrote:

y2johnny wrote:This is probably one of the more out there posts regarding our current situation.  At the moment the team is a shambles, 12 to 14k at the gates for a home game and the threat of administration chasing us down like dog the bounty hunter chases bail jumpers.  (want some crystal Brah!)

Anyway, the point i will make is this.  IF the team was actually giving the fans  something to cheer about, and at least looking like they wanted to win, would this in turn increase the gates and the money available for paying their extortionate wages?

The gates is only a guess at what we get, but an extra 10,000 fans at 3 home games a month spending on average £25 a ticket plus let's just say another £10 on parking, programmes, food and drink, would bring in an extra £1,050,000.

So, with that in mind, going forward, if the players want paying, they have to make it entertaining and fill the Macron.  New contracts need to be dished out and the players need to start earning their wedge!

hi y2j, interesting post. I don't know the demographics of the crowd, but think your av of £25 per ticket quite high when taken in conjunction with concessions, and your £10 add on spend quite realistic. But going with your figures, and leaving aside for now whether or not 10k additional is possible (think cold Tuesday Feb nights!) the maths takes a first hit because of HMRC. 20% of all your figures goes in VAT. There will be enhanced safety requirements in terms of stewards per 100 extra, other than parking, the profit in your £10 add on spend devalued by cost of ingredients for food, extra staff etc, programmes do well to cover cost of printing, booze will have a higher margin but there will be extra licensing costs for more alcohol sales etc etc. I know I have my gloom and doom hat on today, but the practicalities to me show even an additional 10k people through the doors for 3 home game a month (not achievable in my mind) would give the club an extra £300-350k max money to offset its £1m per month loss. Makes you think dunnit.

We'll have to get down to Gigg Lane and ask if they have any buckets we can borrow.

As things stand a player who has not been paid for 2 consecutive months is automatically a free agent, his contract is null and void and he can find another club with no transfer fee involved even if he is under 23. So if we don't pay them for november and fail to pay this months wages as well our squad is instantly worth zero to BWFC. The club would still owe the players the 2 months wages and would have to pay them before being allowed to recruit or re-sign anyone. I suspect we'll go into admin before december 30th to avoid that scenario if nothing else. Also HMRC will require tax returns NLT January 31st from anyone at the club officially listed as self-employed along with a statement from the club and payment of class2 and class 6 NI contributions (paid by employers with PAYE employees). I really do think admin is now a certainty.

We owe the tax man a "serious sum of money" according to Gordon Taylor.

That's it - we are fucked.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:As things stand a player who has not been paid for 2 consecutive months is automatically a free agent, his contract is null and void and he can find another club with no transfer fee involved even if he is under 23.

This is clearly a ploy to get rid of the dross i.e. the whole squad. Clever.

Breadman wrote:We owe the tax man a "serious sum of money" according to Gordon Taylor.

That's it - we are fucked.

Shall we start kickstarter fund

HMRC could be the killer easily. They can have us wound up far more quickly and easily than any other creditor and they are also top of the list of creditors in status (ie who gets their money back first). If we owe them big money and they don't feel we can or will pay it back when they require it they WILL shut us down. And any administration deal would have to be approved by them. They can veto any deal they like even if every other creditor agreed.

I don't even pay my own taxes if I can get away with it so I'm not paying theirs.

(That was a joke if anybody from HMRC is reading this. Please forward any correspondence to Cowgill Holloway of Bolton. Ta.)

luckyPeterpiper wrote:HMRC could be the killer easily. They can have us wound up far more quickly and easily than any other creditor and they are also top of the list of creditors in status (ie who gets their money back first). If we owe them big money and they don't feel we can or will pay it back when they require it they WILL shut us down. And any administration deal would have to be approved by them. They can veto any deal they like even if every other creditor agreed.

Sorry to be a bit of a know all pain, but HMRC is not top of the list of creditors, unlike in any other business. They hate it, but football creditors are paid first, them second in any admin situation, which is why they are very very keen to call for admin quickly so that other creditors don't get all the available dosh.

Chairmanda wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:HMRC could be the killer easily. They can have us wound up far more quickly and easily than any other creditor and they are also top of the list of creditors in status (ie who gets their money back first). If we owe them big money and they don't feel we can or will pay it back when they require it they WILL shut us down. And any administration deal would have to be approved by them. They can veto any deal they like even if every other creditor agreed.

Sorry to be a bit of a know all pain, but HMRC is not top of the list of creditors, unlike in any other business. They hate it, but football creditors are paid first, them second in any admin situation, which is why they are very very keen to call for admin quickly so that other creditors don't get all the available dosh.

Fair enough Chairmanda. I had actually forgotten that exception. However, what counts as a football creditor? I assume club staff, people who supply services to the ground or team itself (not the Hotel, conference centre etc) and players agents, other clubs (ie outstanding transfer monies). 

However, it's still true that HMRC is the big dog in putting us into admin. They can get the hearing much faster than anyone else and can still veto a deal if they feel they aren't getting enough of their dosh out of it.

if the future lies with this current crop of players we may as well give up now. One of the worst squads, if not the worst i have ever seen and i went in Division 4 days 

Norpig wrote:if the future lies with this current crop of players we may as well give up now. One of the worst squads, if not the worst i have ever seen and i went in Division 4 days 

Same here mate. But don't worry, remember our fantastic away kit last season? It told us the future is bright because it was orange! Personally I think the entire squad has been Tango'd. That's why we're in such a dizzy mess.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Chairmanda wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:HMRC could be the killer easily. They can have us wound up far more quickly and easily than any other creditor and they are also top of the list of creditors in status (ie who gets their money back first). If we owe them big money and they don't feel we can or will pay it back when they require it they WILL shut us down. And any administration deal would have to be approved by them. They can veto any deal they like even if every other creditor agreed.

Sorry to be a bit of a know all pain, but HMRC is not top of the list of creditors, unlike in any other business. They hate it, but football creditors are paid first, them second in any admin situation, which is why they are very very keen to call for admin quickly so that other creditors don't get all the available dosh.

Fair enough Chairmanda. I had actually forgotten that exception. However, what counts as a football creditor? I assume club staff, people who supply services to the ground or team itself (not the Hotel, conference centre etc) and players agents, other clubs (ie outstanding transfer monies). 

However, it's still true that HMRC is the big dog in putting us into admin. They can get the hearing much faster than anyone else and can still veto a deal if they feel they aren't getting enough of their dosh out of it.

completely agree with you LPP, that the 2 bills every club needs to pay top priority are players wages (or they can become free agents) and HMRC (as they will put a club in admin v quickly) Seems we are batting 0 for 2.

Other creditors who can muscle their way to the front and claim football creditor status is an interesting one. The guy who prints the programme? It is after all for a football match. They coach company for away travel? The kit provider? Any small local businesses who provide goods to the club, and who could go bust if the club defaults? Its also self fulfilling as a prophecy, if you have cash flow problems, and all suppliers get nervous and insist on cash up front, not long before your beer pumps run dry...

Sad times.

the thing is, if we continue on the path we are we won't have the current crop come january and will have to rely on the kids.

I too,watched them in Division 4. This lot are probably as bad.

boltonbonce wrote:I too,watched them in Division 4. This lot are probably as bad.

 bring back John Thomas and Sumo, still better than Madine now 

Thomas, Savage, Came, Thompson, Chandler.

I'd have 'em all back in the team now.

JT scored 28 goals that season (I've just had a look).

I bet we don't score 28 goals collectively all season.