Hometry reading the match report above and the BN live feed Doffy, that may help you but you carry on with this witch hunt. The problem is the 10 in front of him 99% of the timedoffcocker wrote:Norpig wrote:Doffy please leave your Amos hatred alone for now, he's the least of our problems. Has he shagged your sister or do you just hate gingers?
I don't think the onus should be on me to explain why I don't rate Amos but for you to explain why you do, and why you're so quick to defend him.
I understood it when I used to have a go at Kevin Davies and people would get upset, but in Amos we're talking about a player who's been at the club just short of twelve months and done virtually nothing worthy of endearment in that time.
I mean, how many times have you thought "thank God for Amos, or we'd have got dicked today?"
How many times, on the other hand, have you thought "I think he could have got to that" or even "Amos has fucked up completely there"? Well actually, I gave you a long list of examples of this the last time you pulled me up on it that you didn't seem to contest.
I have no idea - of all the players in this team that get concentrated criticism - you would feel so defensive over Amos. Unless he's a family relative or friend. Or man crush.
Rotherham 4-0 Bolton
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Cajunboy
Hipster_Nebula
Chairmanda
MartinBWFC
boltonbonce
Norpig
doffcocker
wanderlust
luckyPeterpiper
Natasha Whittam
karlypants
Bwfc1958
scottjames30
Boggersbelief
18 posters
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41 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 18:33
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
42 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 18:47
doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Norpig wrote:
try reading the match report above and the BN live feed Doffy, that may help you but you carry on with this witch hunt.
OK so according to the match report he had a good game in which he made a number of good saves (and conceded four goals). He only needs to do this another 20 times and he'll have made up for the games where he's done very little to absolutely nothing useful.
43 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 18:48
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote:Norpig wrote:
try reading the match report above and the BN live feed Doffy, that may help you but you carry on with this witch hunt.
OK so according to the match report he had a good game in which he made a number of good saves (and conceded four goals). He only needs to do this another 20 times and he'll have made up for the games where he's done very little to absolutely nothing useful.
44 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 19:15
doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Norpig wrote:The problem is the 10 in front of him 99% of the time
Fair enough there are plenty of players equally culpable but to say he's only 1% to blame implies you think he's one of our better players which I find astonishing.
Like I said, there's a long list of goals that he has arguably cost us this season. Crosses that he should have caught but didn't, shots that he should have seen coming, shots that he saw coming but couldn't get a decent hand to, shots that have just gone right through his legs...it's a whole catalogue of situations that were poorly dealt with on his part.
And how many times has he really really saved our arse with a great stop? How often do you even see him come to claim a cross from a corner? These are just my observations by the way - I know you too have a season ticket - please feel free to say I'm wrong and you've seen him do many great things in the time he's been with us.
45 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:14
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote: These are just my observations by the way - I know you too have a season ticket - please feel free to say I'm wrong
You're wrong. As usual.
Amos hasn't been great, but he's still been one of our better players.
I can't think of one player who has played consistently better.
46 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:36
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
i do think he's one of our better players and i wouldn't be surprised to him leave in the very near future. All keepers make mistakes and because they are keepers they do get put under the microscope.doffcocker wrote:Norpig wrote:The problem is the 10 in front of him 99% of the time
Fair enough there are plenty of players equally culpable but to say he's only 1% to blame implies you think he's one of our better players which I find astonishing.
Like I said, there's a long list of goals that he has arguably cost us this season. Crosses that he should have caught but didn't, shots that he should have seen coming, shots that he saw coming but couldn't get a decent hand to, shots that have just gone right through his legs...it's a whole catalogue of situations that were poorly dealt with on his part.
And how many times has he really really saved our arse with a great stop? How often do you even see him come to claim a cross from a corner? These are just my observations by the way - I know you too have a season ticket - please feel free to say I'm wrong and you've seen him do many great things in the time he's been with us.
Lonergan was a good keeper but he made a good few cock-ups last season and even when fit couldn't dislodge Amos or Bogdan.
For me Amos has been a good keeper and has kept us in games with lots of great saves but as i said he can't be held responsible for the utter shite back four in front of him. Neuer would look average playing for us at the moment
47 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:41
luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
I think they'll be up for sale next week mate. With our financial position being what it is I wouldn't be surprised to see Amos, Clough and Walker join them and possibly more.dubzee wrote:What I don't get from today was the team selection, no mavies, prince or Vella? Is Lennon resting them for Monday or are they on their way out...
48 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:44
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Today was genuinely the first time I've thought we are definitely going down.
Blame whoever you want, but to go from European football to League 1 in under 10 years seems like something that would happen to other clubs. Mismanagement from top to bottom.
I just wish I was seeing some fight on the pitch, it would make it easier to deal with.
Blame whoever you want, but to go from European football to League 1 in under 10 years seems like something that would happen to other clubs. Mismanagement from top to bottom.
I just wish I was seeing some fight on the pitch, it would make it easier to deal with.
49 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:45
luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Have to say I'm with norpig and nat on Amos. He's a good keeper but with the tissue paper masquerading as a defence in front of him I think Peter Shilton in his prime would have looked crap. The problem for keepers has always been the same. Almost any error they make gets magnified and re-examined a hundred times over because it often leads to a goal. No one else on the pitch is anywhere near as exposed in this way. A defender can hit a bad pass or make a daft tackle, a midfielder can trip over his own feet and strikers can miss an open goal without attracting the level of scrutiny and criticism levelled at the keeper who dropped a cross or got caught off his line. It's the nature of the game and a part of the reason why (imo) goalkeeper is the toughest position to play. Do it right and most of the time no one notices but God help you if you get it wrong.
50 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:48
doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Natasha Whittam wrote:doffcocker wrote: These are just my observations by the way - I know you too have a season ticket - please feel free to say I'm wrong
You're wrong. As usual.
Amos hasn't been great, but he's still been one of our better players.
I can't think of one player who has played consistently better.
But we both know that if I said his shit smelt bad, you'd say it smelt like roses.
And if this was a debate about Lennon and the signings he's made, you'd be making all the same points that I'm making here in regards to Amos.
There's very little point you posting on matters like this.
51 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:52
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
doffcocker wrote:
But we both know that if I said his shit smelt bad, you'd say it smelt like roses.
And if this was a debate about Lennon and the signings he's made, you'd be making all the same points that I'm making here in regards to Amos.
There's very little point you posting on matters like this.
Ha ha, you know you're talking bollocks. Amos might not be Gordon Banks (look him up) but he's hardly been the main guilty party for our league position. I'd rather blame the shit defence and awful attack.
As would most people.
I've said I'd rather have kept Lonergan, I never understood letting him go, but I don't think Amos is the reason we are rock bottom.
52 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 21:58
luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
I was puzzled as to how Lonergan was left to run his contract out but in hindsight I would speculate that PG already knew the storm was coming and was desperately trying to avoid it by letting players go for free and cut the wage bill rather than risk not being able to sell them if they re-signed. Personally I felt letting Al-Habsi go rather than Jussi was a big mistake at the time and I stand by that. I thought Al-Habsi would have been a good number one for us with Bogdan as backup but the club took whatever pennies the pie eaters offered as they always do when someone sniffs around us.
53 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 22:16
doffcocker
Ivan Campo
luckyPeterpiper wrote:Have to say I'm with norpig and nat on Amos. He's a good keeper but with the tissue paper masquerading as a defence in front of him I think Peter Shilton in his prime would have looked crap.
If we were judging solely on the number of goals he's conceded, then yes I'd want to take into consideration factors like the defence and what difference it would make if they were competent.
But let me take you through the type of situations I'm talking about, using some examples I put together earlier in the season.
Middlesbrough 0-3:
2nd goal goes straight through his legs. Yes you can blame the defence for conceding the opportunity, but you can't blame them for Amos letting the ball go straight through his legs.
Hudderfield 1-4:
1st goal is a relatively weak shot from outside the box that he doesn't save even though he seemed to be getting to it. Can you blame the defence for that? Well no.
4th goal again is a pretty weak shot from a tight angle that's gone straight past him. Is it the defence's fault that Amos fails to save it? No.
Brighton 2-2:
1st goal is just a royal cock up starting with a simple cross that he drops. He then loses his nerve, comes out to get a tackle in and can't save the shot from 18 yards out. How much is the defence to blame? Well maybe Prince has got in his way slightly, but he should have still caught it with ease.
QPR 3-4:
2nd goal comes from him dropping a weak header at goal. Should have been a straightforward catch but he drops it and the rebound is a tap in. Again it's a situation a better defence might have dealt with but it doesn't excuse the schoolboy save by Amos.
Birimignham 0-1:
Just doesn't deal with the cross at all and it's a tap in for Robinson. Not completely to blame but he's gotta take some responsibility for complete lack of organisation and communication.
Ipswich 0-2:
1st goal is another weak shot that he gets to and should have pushed away easily but he just gets a weak hand on it. If you wanted to be pedantic you could blame the defence for not closing the guy down on the edge of the box but it doesn't discount the fact that it's a very savable shot.
So yes, any keeper would concede a lot of goals with a defence like ours but how many plain easy goals they'd give away is a separate matter.
54 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sat 26 Dec - 22:26
luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Your point is well taken but I'd like to add to it doffcocker.
A goalkeeper's confidence can easily be hurt by one mistake. Having a solid defence in front of him can help him rebuild that confidence and avoid making more in the future. With what's in front of Ben Amos right now I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of his mistakes are down to his lack of confidence in them. I'm not saying it's all their fault but I think it's not completely surprising that Amos may lack confidence in them which adds to the pressure he feels and contributes to him making errors that cost us goals. I honestly think he'd be a lot better if we had a better defence, that he'd make far fewer errors and that it might even cost less when he did make a mistake if he had competent support from the back four.
A goalkeeper's confidence can easily be hurt by one mistake. Having a solid defence in front of him can help him rebuild that confidence and avoid making more in the future. With what's in front of Ben Amos right now I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of his mistakes are down to his lack of confidence in them. I'm not saying it's all their fault but I think it's not completely surprising that Amos may lack confidence in them which adds to the pressure he feels and contributes to him making errors that cost us goals. I honestly think he'd be a lot better if we had a better defence, that he'd make far fewer errors and that it might even cost less when he did make a mistake if he had competent support from the back four.
55 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sun 27 Dec - 0:38
MartinBWFC
Ivan Campo
Blame Lennon for constantly changing defence, no team have been successful by changing the defence on a weekly basis, he has been here 14 months, and still cannot pick a settled team, clueless cunt that he isNatasha Whittam wrote:doffcocker wrote:
But we both know that if I said his shit smelt bad, you'd say it smelt like roses.
And if this was a debate about Lennon and the signings he's made, you'd be making all the same points that I'm making here in regards to Amos.
There's very little point you posting on matters like this.
I'd rather blame the shit defence
56 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sun 27 Dec - 9:18
rammywhite
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:Today was genuinely the first time I've thought we are definitely going down.
Blame whoever you want, but to go from European football to League 1 in under 10 years seems like something that would happen to other clubs. Mismanagement from top to bottom.
I just wish I was seeing some fight on the pitch, it would make it easier to deal with.
I'm 100% with Nat on this. Up until now I've believed that we would turn it round- put a few games together and claw our way out of it. But 4 second half goals against a poor side like Rotherham says it all. We simply gave up, threw in the towel. The writing's on the wall now- I can't see a way back from this.
59 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sun 27 Dec - 10:22
Guest
Guest
Sadly yes, Barb.
12:30pm on Sky Sports 1 in glorious HD.
12:30pm on Sky Sports 1 in glorious HD.
60 Re: Rotherham 4-0 Bolton Sun 27 Dec - 10:55
Guest
Guest
I saw the Beehive roundabout yesterday, maybe the match will be called off in the interest of public decency safety.
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