The Transfer Embargo

Yes, I know I keep banging on about it and you're probably sick of reading my posts on the topic but I really feel it matters and that it deserves its own thread. 

As things currently stand we are not allowed to sign anyone. At all. Not even a player who offered his services for free. 

While I appreciate that the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st I believe we should be worried about it right now for several reasons. 

1. As you all know many transfer deals are actually negotiated long before the window opens. They are often completed and announced as "A. Player will sign for A. Club on 1st July for x fee on a y year deal." All that happens on the 1st July is the paperwork is formally filed, the deal was actually done weeks or even months (in the case of pre-contract agreements) before. I have no doubt that many clubs are already talking to potential targets and in several cases formal negotiations are well underway if not complete. We're already likely to be running behind the pack. 

2. Some people seem to think we're making such approaches ourselves anyway and telling our targets that the embargo will be sorted in time but if you were a footballer's agent or a footballer would you accept such an assurance? Would you be willing to engage in negotiations that might drag on for weeks with a club that may well not be able to honour any deal you make? Or will you talk to clubs who can close the deal immediately? 

3. The club's silence on this issue is puzzling to say the least. Frankly if the new owners are to truly have any credibility then this should have been their first priority after the tax bill was settled. Ken Anderson might talk about us having a 'competitive' budget for League One but there's no point in it while the embargo remains, something he was curiously and conspicuously silent about during that interview. 

4. If I was a manager being approached by Bolton Wanderers about the job then I'd be extremely wary about taking it while the club is under embargo. Given the way Neil Lennon was lied to about funds being available and the way the loan deal went south after he'd agreed terms with the player only to be told the money wasn't there after all would set off alarm bells in my head, especially given that the new owners have remained so quiet about how and when the embargo might be lifted. 

5. Several of our players are out of contract this summer and no matter how bad they might be if we can't replace them at all then we're going to be severely hampered by a threadbare squad next season unless we get incredibly lucky with injuries and suspensions. Worse still, some of the players who aren't out of contract are on such ridiculous wages for League One that we may have to sell some of our more promising youngsters like Clough just to fund the so-called 'stars' salaries in order to avoid breaching FFP rules again. 

For all of those reasons and a few others I honestly feel that the embargo is not just detrimental to the club now but potentially very damaging to our prospects for next season and beyond. I believe that every day it remains in place it does more damage to our credibility let alone our ability to attract and recruit the kind of quality we're going to need if only to stop the slide we're on now let alone actually start climbing the leagues again. Sport Shield absolutely must get their finger out and sort this fast. It should have been done already and the fact they haven't done it and aren't saying anything about it worries me more than any other issue facing the club right now including who the next manager might be.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Yes, I know I keep banging on about it and you're probably sick of reading my posts on the topic but I really feel it matters and that it deserves its own thread. 

As things currently stand we are not allowed to sign anyone. At all. Not even a player who offered his services for free. 

While I appreciate that the transfer window doesn't officially open until July 1st I believe we should be worried about it right now for several reasons. 

1. As you all know many transfer deals are actually negotiated long before the window opens. They are often completed and announced as "A. Player will sign for A. Club on 1st July for x fee on a y year deal." All that happens on the 1st July is the paperwork is formally filed, the deal was actually done weeks or even months (in the case of pre-contract agreements) before. I have no doubt that many clubs are already talking to potential targets and in several cases formal negotiations are well underway if not complete. We're already likely to be running behind the pack. 

2. Some people seem to think we're making such approaches ourselves anyway and telling our targets that the embargo will be sorted in time but if you were a footballer's agent or a footballer would you accept such an assurance? Would you be willing to engage in negotiations that might drag on for weeks with a club that may well not be able to honour any deal you make? Or will you talk to clubs who can close the deal immediately? 

3. The club's silence on this issue is puzzling to say the least. Frankly if the new owners are to truly have any credibility then this should have been their first priority after the tax bill was settled. Ken Anderson might talk about us having a 'competitive' budget for League One but there's no point in it while the embargo remains, something he was curiously and conspicuously silent about during that interview. 

4. If I was a manager being approached by Bolton Wanderers about the job then I'd be extremely wary about taking it while the club is under embargo. Given the way Neil Lennon was lied to about funds being available and the way the loan deal went south after he'd agreed terms with the player only to be told the money wasn't there after all would set off alarm bells in my head, especially given that the new owners have remained so quiet about how and when the embargo might be lifted. 

5. Several of our players are out of contract this summer and no matter how bad they might be if we can't replace them at all then we're going to be severely hampered by a threadbare squad next season unless we get incredibly lucky with injuries and suspensions. Worse still, some of the players who aren't out of contract are on such ridiculous wages for League One that we may have to sell some of our more promising youngsters like Clough just to fund the so-called 'stars' salaries in order to avoid breaching FFP rules again. 

For all of those reasons and a few others I honestly feel that the embargo is not just detrimental to the club now but potentially very damaging to our prospects for next season and beyond. I believe that every day it remains in place it does more damage to our credibility let alone our ability to attract and recruit the kind of quality we're going to need if only to stop the slide we're on now let alone actually start climbing the leagues again. Sport Shield absolutely must get their finger out and sort this fast. It should have been done already and the fact they haven't done it and aren't saying anything about it worries me more than any other issue facing the club right now including who the next manager might be.

Couple of points.



1) Anderson did say in the interview that they were working towards lifting the embargo



2) Stars on high salaries don't effect the FFP equation as rules state that stars on long contracts signed before September are not counted.



However, we were told a) new board of Directors were going to be appointed and haven't been, b) new manager was only a week away. These things haven't happened.



Rumours are that behind the scenes owners have fallen out and we're about to be sold again.



Pointless being negative now as we all know we're deep in the dooh dah and that there's no money to spend on transfers. Best we will get are a few loans once embargo is lifted. There's no way we're going back up next season as we don't have the funds to make it happen embargo or no embargo (my personal opinion)

where did you hear the rumour Sprite?

FullofSprite wrote:Couple of points.



1) Anderson did say in the interview that they were working towards lifting the embargo



2) Stars on high salaries don't effect the FFP equation as rules state that stars on long contracts signed before September are not counted.



However, we were told a) new board of Directors were going to be appointed and haven't been, b) new manager was only a week away. These things haven't happened.



Rumours are that behind the scenes owners have fallen out and we're about to be sold again.



Pointless being negative now as we all know we're deep in the dooh dah and that there's no money to spend on transfers. Best we will get are a few loans once embargo is lifted. There's no way we're going back up next season as we don't have the funds to make it happen embargo or no embargo (my personal opinion)

Couple of counter points mate:

1. Anderson said it was being worked towards but gave no indication of what was actually being done or how long it would take. Since then he's said nothing. 

2. Player wages matter a great deal in FFP as the rules govern what a club can spend on transfers etc from an assessment of ALL revenue vs ALL outgoings not just transfer deals. Obviously the higher the wage bill the lower the amount available for other things.  

I agree we aren't coming straight back up and wouldn't be even if the embargo was lifted today but I think we'd at least be able to arrest the woeful slide we're on if it was gone. And if the rumours are right about the club being sold again then doesn't it make sense to get the embargo binned even more? We're not likely to be an attractive proposition anyway, with it still in place most investors will avoid us like bubonic plague.

If we can't sign any players whilst under a transfer embargo, would that also apply to a manager too (especially if the manager we are after is already under contract elsewhere)?

Is the transfer embargo relevant anyway?
Given that we have to cut our current wage bill by around about £2million IN ADDITION to the players whose contracts are up in summer AND assuming that any budget to buy new players will have to come from additional player sales (which we are unlikely to make as they are on ridiculous salaries) PLUS making Holding etc priority re-signings if we do get some money, it's pretty obvious there will be ZERO budget to buy new players.

I am assuming that the embargo doesn't affect us offering a new (or extended) contract to those leaving like Woolery and Holding? If so, what's the worry? 

It's the end of next season when most of the high earners are finally out of contract - and that's when we'll finally have some wriggle room re transfers.

Norpig wrote:where did you hear the rumour Sprite?

Few people on Twitter have been saying it for a while. Could be an exaggeration though of Anderson / Holdsworth not agreeing on managerial target

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

FullofSprite wrote:Couple of points.



1) Anderson did say in the interview that they were working towards lifting the embargo



2) Stars on high salaries don't effect the FFP equation as rules state that stars on long contracts signed before September are not counted.



However, we were told a) new board of Directors were going to be appointed and haven't been, b) new manager was only a week away. These things haven't happened.



Rumours are that behind the scenes owners have fallen out and we're about to be sold again.



Pointless being negative now as we all know we're deep in the dooh dah and that there's no money to spend on transfers. Best we will get are a few loans once embargo is lifted. There's no way we're going back up next season as we don't have the funds to make it happen embargo or no embargo (my personal opinion)

Couple of counter points mate:

1. Anderson said it was being worked towards but gave no indication of what was actually being done or how long it would take. Since then he's said nothing. 

2. Player wages matter a great deal in FFP as the rules govern what a club can spend on transfers etc from an assessment of ALL revenue vs ALL outgoings not just transfer deals. Obviously the higher the wage bill the lower the amount available for other things.  

I agree we aren't coming straight back up and wouldn't be even if the embargo was lifted today but I think we'd at least be able to arrest the woeful slide we're on if it was gone. And if the rumours are right about the club being sold again then doesn't it make sense to get the embargo binned even more? We're not likely to be an attractive proposition anyway, with it still in place most investors will avoid us like bubonic plague.

As I understand it any players that were signed before September last year (including wages) are not counted in the FFP regulations - that's the rule apparently

wanderlust wrote:Is the transfer embargo relevant anyway?

We may not be able to get an external manager without it being lifted!

Sluffy wrote:If we can't sign any players whilst under a transfer embargo, would that also apply to a manager too (especially if the manager we are after is already under contract elsewhere)?

Remember we could not even sign a player who wanted to play for free - possibly the same applies to the manager situation too - although Reid has joined the club since it was imposed and has certainly been involved with the team on the pitch during games.

If it DID apply I guess we have no choice other than to go with Phillips as manager until it is lifted.

wanderlust wrote:Is the transfer embargo relevant anyway?
Given that we have to cut our current wage bill by around about £2million IN ADDITION to the players whose contracts are up in summer AND assuming that any budget to buy new players will have to come from additional player sales (which we are unlikely to make as they are on ridiculous salaries) PLUS making Holding etc priority re-signings if we do get some money, it's pretty obvious there will be ZERO budget to buy new players.

I am assuming that the embargo doesn't affect us offering a new (or extended) contract to those leaving like Woolery and Holding? If so, what's the worry? 

It's the end of next season when most of the high earners are finally out of contract - and that's when we'll finally have some wriggle room re transfers.

Pretty sure the embargo does effect us signing Woolery and Holding. Another reason why something needs to be done.



I would imagine that things are in the pipeline, but, paperwork takes a long time. Just look at Sluffys post on Sports Shield and how long it took deano to file accounts

FullofSprite wrote:As I understand it any players that were signed before September last year (including wages) are not counted in the FFP regulations - that's the rule apparently

In a sense it is sort of irrelevant to us anyway as the clubs problem is one of sorting out its running costs in that the new seasons revenue stream is very unlikely to be able to pay those big wages for any length of time and so the plan has got to be to get them off the wage bill as soon as they can.

FFP EMBARGOES

Any Championship club that is subject to an FFP embargo during the 2015/16 season will be prohibited from registering any new professional players (permanent contract or loan) unless they have:

• 24 or fewer established players (players aged 21 or over that have made at least 5 starting appearances for the club).

Where clubs have fewer than 24 established players, they will only be permitted to sign players in the following circumstances (with the player in question being added to the club’s list of established players regardless of his age or previous playing experience):

• Where the employee costs of a player being signed are less than £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on a shorter contract).

Where clubs have 24 established players, they will be permitted to trade on a ‘one out, one in’ basis but only if the employee costs of the player coming in to the club are no more than whichever is the lower amount of:

• 75% of the equivalent costs of the player going out.
• Or a maximum of £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on shorter contract)

In addition:

• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay (or commit to pay) transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.
• Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis (in line with existing regulations).
• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player’s wage (or a contribution towards it).
• For incoming players, clubs can only pay Agents’ Fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question (as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit).
• Clubs under an FFP embargo may register players under the age of 21 for non-first team matches.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

BoltonTillIDie wrote:FFP EMBARGOES

Any Championship club that is subject to an FFP embargo during the 2015/16 season will be prohibited from registering any new professional players (permanent contract or loan) unless they have:

• 24 or fewer established players (players aged 21 or over that have made at least 5 starting appearances for the club).  

Where clubs have fewer than 24 established players, they will only be permitted to sign players in the following circumstances (with the player in question being added to the club’s list of established players regardless of his age or previous playing experience):

• Where the employee costs of a player being signed are less than £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on a shorter contract).

Where clubs have 24 established players, they will be permitted to trade on a ‘one out, one in’ basis but only if the employee costs of the player coming in to the club are no more than whichever is the lower amount of:

• 75% of the equivalent costs of the player going out.
• Or a maximum of £600,000 per annum (or pro-rata if signed on shorter contract)

In addition:

• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay (or commit to pay) transfer fees or compensation fees for professional players.
• Clubs under an FFP embargo will be permitted to sign a goalkeeper on an emergency basis (in line with existing regulations).
• Clubs under an FFP embargo will not be permitted to pay a loan fee to another club, they may only pay the player’s wage (or a contribution towards it).
• For incoming players, clubs can only pay Agents’ Fees as a benefit in kind to the player in question (as long as they do not exceed the £600,000 employee costs limit).
• Clubs under an FFP embargo may register players under the age of 21 for non-first team matches.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Any club that has been relegated to League 1 having exceeded the £6m limit will not be subject to a transfer embargo but will be required to comply with the Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) regulations in place in that division.  These rules require League 1 clubs to limit their spending on players’ wages to 60% of turnover plus 100% of Football Fortune income (e.g. financial donations, transfer income, revenue from cup matches), with a club relegated from the Championship being able to operate at 75% of turnover for a transitional period of one season.  

Read more at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Until we know whose leaving we don't know how many players with over 5 games experience we have.



Also we are not under an embargo for over spending like Forest and Blackburn were, merely for not submitting our accounts - which I guess is till being worked on as we try to predict the revenues for next season.



Think it's time to let Deano and Ken just get on with the job rather than all this panicking that is going on here

To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

NickFazer wrote:To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

They won't just yet, but fans reading twitter and this forum, then going on radio phone ins to continuously talk about it will eventually pee them off - it would me.



They've only been in the jobs a few weeks and fans want it sorted over night - give em a chance is what I say. Deano and Ken have told us they have the money and that should do for now.



Club hasn't submitted it's accounts for March - Sluffy will be on about that soon - had a go at Sports Shield earlier. Fans not giving new board a chance, just jumping on them from the of.



Bet they're still wading through the books try to find that nasty surprises

FullofSprite wrote:

NickFazer wrote:To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

They won't just yet, but fans reading twitter and this forum, then going on radio phone ins to continuously talk about it will eventually pee them off - it would me.

They've only been in the jobs a few weeks and fans want it sorted over night - give em a chance is what I say. Deano and Ken have told us they have the money and that should do for now.

Club hasn't submitted it's accounts for March - Sluffy will be on about that soon - had a go at Sports Shield earlier. Fans not giving new board a chance, just jumping on them from the of.

Bet they're still wading through the books try to find that nasty surprises

Given how long it took them to buy the club surely they should have seen all the books before the deal was done? It's called due diligence and is a basic step taken by any company wishing to buy another business. Failure to do it, especially when they were in talks for months and had plenty of time to review them before buying the club would frankly be incompetence of the highest order so if they're still looking through the books for 'surprises' now then I'd be even more worried than I was before.

And given the fact they had to borrow money just to make the purchase and secure it against the assets of the club itself any assurances they give about future viability are ones I greet with a pinch of salt to say the least. 

Finally, if questions about what they'redoing from their core customer base are enough to annoy them then they have no business being in business.

FullofSprite wrote:

NickFazer wrote:To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

They won't just yet, but fans reading twitter and this forum, then going on radio phone ins to continuously talk about it will eventually pee them off - it would me.

They've only been in the jobs a few weeks and fans want it sorted over night - give em a chance is what I say. Deano and Ken have told us they have the money and that should do for now.

Club hasn't submitted it's accounts for March - Sluffy will be on about that soon - had a go at Sports Shield earlier. Fans not giving new board a chance, just jumping on them from the of.

Bet they're still wading through the books try to find that nasty surprises

They wont give a stuff about what I think, nor those on twitter, or anybody else for that matter, they are here to make money and fair play to them, they took the risk by buying the club and committing to putting in at least £5 million so far.

If you or anyone else could be arsed you will see that I never criticised Davies (nor Gartside for that matter) because one took a risk with his money (and the other was basically just a paid employee).

Davies basically stuck two fingers up to the fans (and Iles!) and fwiw I thought he was completely within his rights to do so.  If Holdsworth and Anderson did exactly the same I would neither be surprised nor offended.

Holdsworth and Anderson have put the money in (like Davies did before them) and it is nobody else's business how they spend it (or take out!) from THEIR club as long as it complies with the law, which I'm sure it will.

My interest fwiw is more academic, I'm fascinated to figure out how they intend to do it (in the same way I was interested in how Davies financed the club seeing that he apparently invested far more money into it than he was ever worth)?

I'm sorry if that somehow offends you - but I'm certain it wont cause Holdsworth and Anderson to run away crying from the club saying that the reason why they left was because Sluffy from the Nuts forum made a few posts about their business plans for the club based on known public information and some people on twitter said a number stupid things!

We've got plenty enough wum accounts on here already but I'm sure we can always find room enough for another one.

Sluffy wrote:

FullofSprite wrote:

NickFazer wrote:To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

They won't just yet, but fans reading twitter and this forum, then going on radio phone ins to continuously talk about it will eventually pee them off - it would me.

They've only been in the jobs a few weeks and fans want it sorted over night - give em a chance is what I say. Deano and Ken have told us they have the money and that should do for now.

Club hasn't submitted it's accounts for March - Sluffy will be on about that soon - had a go at Sports Shield earlier. Fans not giving new board a chance, just jumping on them from the of.

Bet they're still wading through the books try to find that nasty surprises

They wont give a stuff about what I think, nor those on twitter, or anybody else for that matter, they are here to make money and fair play to them, they took the risk by buying the club and committing to putting in at least £5 million so far.

If you or anyone else could be arsed you will see that I never criticised Davies (nor Gartside for that matter) because one took a risk with his money (and the other was basically just a paid employee).

Davies basically stuck two fingers up to the fans (and Iles!) and fwiw I thought he was completely within his rights to do so.  If Holdsworth and Anderson did exactly the same I would neither be surprised nor offended.

Holdsworth and Anderson have put the money in (like Davies did before them) and it is nobody else's business how they spend it (or take out!) from THEIR club as long as it complies with the law, which I'm sure it will.

My interest fwiw is more academic, I'm fascinated to figure out how they intend to do it (in the same way I was interested in how Davies financed the club seeing that he apparently invested far more money into it than he was ever worth)?

I'm sorry if that somehow offends you - but I'm certain it wont cause Holdsworth and Anderson to run away crying from the club saying that the reason why they left was because Sluffy from the Nuts forum made a few posts about their business plans for the club based on known public information and some people on twitter said a number stupid things!

We've got plenty enough wum accounts on here already but I'm sure we can always find room enough for another one.

It doesn't offend me, but the constant doubting that they have the funds, undermining their position, may just cause them to question why they bothered in the first place.

If the fans are 'hostile' which questioning their funding can appear to be then why bother to buy it. I'm sure there other clubs who would be more grateful for the fact that their club has been bought, without questioning where they got the money from and how they're funding it.

All I've seen from fans at the moment is constant sniping, both here and on twitter - any other clubs fans would be grateful for the investment and the fact that their club has been saved. Ours have to question where they're getting the money from - "must be crooks" -seems the constant cry.




If it's this bad when you have just bought the club, imagine how it's going to be in six - twelve months time when we're bottom of the 1st division and struggling again?


I've no doubt we're in for a bumpy ride, but we had the questioning of Sports shield - which is a dormant company, and soon we will have BWFC, Burnden Leisure and the Whites hotel - yes they haven't filed their accounts on time. Notice to strike of won't appear until July by which time they will file the accounts.

So as far as this is concerned until July let sleeping dogs lie - that's my opinion

Sluffy wrote:

FullofSprite wrote:

NickFazer wrote:To be fair I don't think Ken and Deano will be worrying about the panicking on here. I would expect that sorting the accounts and getting the embargo lifted is one of their short term targets.

They won't just yet, but fans reading twitter and this forum, then going on radio phone ins to continuously talk about it will eventually pee them off - it would me.

They've only been in the jobs a few weeks and fans want it sorted over night - give em a chance is what I say. Deano and Ken have told us they have the money and that should do for now.

Club hasn't submitted it's accounts for March - Sluffy will be on about that soon - had a go at Sports Shield earlier. Fans not giving new board a chance, just jumping on them from the of.

Bet they're still wading through the books try to find that nasty surprises

They wont give a stuff about what I think, nor those on twitter, or anybody else for that matter, they are here to make money and fair play to them, they took the risk by buying the club and committing to putting in at least £5 million so far.

If you or anyone else could be arsed you will see that I never criticised Davies (nor Gartside for that matter) because one took a risk with his money (and the other was basically just a paid employee).

Davies basically stuck two fingers up to the fans (and Iles!) and fwiw I thought he was completely within his rights to do so.  If Holdsworth and Anderson did exactly the same I would neither be surprised nor offended.

Holdsworth and Anderson have put the money in (like Davies did before them) and it is nobody else's business how they spend it (or take out!) from THEIR club as long as it complies with the law, which I'm sure it will.

My interest fwiw is more academic, I'm fascinated to figure out how they intend to do it (in the same way I was interested in how Davies financed the club seeing that he apparently invested far more money into it than he was ever worth)?

I'm sorry if that somehow offends you - but I'm certain it wont cause Holdsworth and Anderson to run away crying from the club saying that the reason why they left was because Sluffy from the Nuts forum made a few posts about their business plans for the club based on known public information and some people on twitter said a number stupid things!

We've got plenty enough wum accounts on here already but I'm sure we can always find room enough for another one.

Oh and Sluffy - you've not answered my question yet - and yes I know somehow it's landed on the wrong part of the forum - the news part of the forum

FullofSprite wrote:If it's this bad when you have just bought the club, imagine how it's going to be in six - twelve months time when we're bottom of the 1st division and struggling again?

I've no doubt we're in for a bumpy ride, but we had the questioning of Sports shield - which is a dormant company, and soon we will have BWFC, Burnden Leisure and the Whites hotel - yes they haven't filed their accounts on time. Notice to strike of won't appear until July by which time they will file the accounts.

So as far as this is concerned until July let sleeping dogs lie - that's my opinion

I'm sure Anderson is not stupid businesswise - that is why he is a millionaire - nor to a lesser extent Holdswoth and both are well aware of the football world and the fickleness of fans, so I don't think for one second that anything said on a football forum and/or twitter will bother them in the slightest.

As for a bumpy ride how much unwelcoming could it have ever possibly been for Holdsworth when the clubs so called representatives of the fans - the Supporters Trust - DEMANDED answers to their business funding by means of a million and one page questionnaire literally hours before the club was due in course facing possible liquidation!

If Holdsworth and latterly Anderson were unphased by that 'welcome' by the so called fans official body, then I'm sure they don't give a fig about anything that I or others may muse about on Nuts or what others may verbalise on twitter and such like.

I'm sure you are right though that certain factions will harp on about how the club is financed - indeed it is in certain peoples interest on the current ST for Holdsworth and Anderson to financially fail big time - in the hope as being the future owners of the club!

Seems a bit ironic to my way of thinking that the people with most to gain with Holdsworth and Anderson failing is not I or anyone else on Nuts, nor the hoi polloi on social media but the very body set up to represent the views of the supporters!

You would be thinking the fans would want the club to succeed not fail so they can take over ownership!

Funny old world at times.