Now the truth's out I actually feel worse....

Then you read about Aston Villa's take over and the new owners promising to spend up to 50 mill to get promoted ....... makes yer cry

terenceanne wrote:Then you read about Aston Villa's take over and the new owners promising to spend up to 50 mill to get promoted ....... makes yer cry

They'd be lucky to pay off Lescott, Richards, N'zogbia, and Agbonlahor for that

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

scottjames30 wrote:I hope we get promoted next season, shut up all the negative tits.

As one of the negative mammary glands in question I think a question would be in order here scott.

Just how likely do you think promotion is?

I'd love it personally, it would be fantastic to have something like that to cheer about after the last twelve months but I'd be lying if I said I can see it happening. So if you disagree and think there's something to be cheerful about now (other than the club's existence) then please, share it with us because I could certainly use something to hope for concerning the club and I'd bet I'm not alone in that.

Peter, all this negativity is depressing, and painfully drawn out with your long posts.

Can I ask what you would like/expect to see happening to the club and team, and how it can be taken forward from where we are. Surely, there must be something you can see that gives us a little hope ? Just a little bit of constructive criticism ?

Breadman wrote:Iles has just published a piece in the BN which sheds a little light on how and why Sports Shield got involved with trying to buy the club.

Turns out Gartside approached them with the view to buying the club himself.

Fuck me.....

That fell apart (for reasons unknown) but Holdsworth's appetite was well and truly whetted and he ended up launching his own bid (backed by Bruce Gordon's millions).

But then Gordon realised what a fucking monumental mistake it would be to throw money at Bolton Wanderers and backed out.

It appears that DH was already too far in to call it off and that's where Ken Anderson comes in.

What a fucking half-baked mess.

No wonder we're up shit creak.

There obviously is no long term plan, or even a short to middle term one beyond trying to flog the likes of Holding, and I honestly think we're fucked here.

Hope I'm wrong.

I was equally surprised by the revelation that Phil Gartside was trying to buy the club as I was that Marc Iles didn't know that the club had been up for sale for at least 4 years and if memory serves longer than that.



Every new owner of a football club has questions marks over them, be it Ambramovich, Mike Ashley or the Glazers. So Tamraz and his motives don't really bother me. Also it's normal in football to leverage the club for success, 90% of the clubs have had their assets put in as security for huge loans in the hope of winning promotion, or even titles - it doesn't stop Man U making a £500 million profit.



If we try to take the moral grounds we won't get anywhere and may well get relegated even further.  Every chairman in the land has been accused of getting up to all sorts of dodgy deals by every supporter going. Those who are old enough will remember the pelters that George and Derek  Warburton use to get. The club and it's owners seem to be constantly accused of some form of corruption. Normally it's plain and simple - we don't have any money, we've a very small fan base and we're trying to live beyond our means.



I don't care what Roger Tamraz motives were for wanting to take over BWFC, providing he was prepared to back it up and make the club run at a profit who cares.

I don't know what Deano's motives were for wanting to take over - but it saved the club and we should be grateful for that. Lets give the new owners a chance and get behind the club for a change.

FullofSprite wrote:

Breadman wrote:Iles has just published a piece in the BN which sheds a little light on how and why Sports Shield got involved with trying to buy the club.

Turns out Gartside approached them with the view to buying the club himself.

Fuck me.....

That fell apart (for reasons unknown) but Holdsworth's appetite was well and truly whetted and he ended up launching his own bid (backed by Bruce Gordon's millions).

But then Gordon realised what a fucking monumental mistake it would be to throw money at Bolton Wanderers and backed out.

It appears that DH was already too far in to call it off and that's where Ken Anderson comes in.

What a fucking half-baked mess.

No wonder we're up shit creak.

There obviously is no long term plan, or even a short to middle term one beyond trying to flog the likes of Holding, and I honestly think we're fucked here.

Hope I'm wrong.

I was equally surprised by the revelation that Phil Gartside was trying to buy the club as I was that Marc Iles didn't know that the club had been up for sale for at least 4 years and if memory serves longer than that.



Every new owner of a football club has questions marks over them, be it Ambramovich, Mike Ashley or the Glazers. So Tamraz and his motives don't really bother me. Also it's normal in football to leverage the club for success, 90% of the clubs have had their assets put in as security for huge loans in the hope of winning promotion, or even titles - it doesn't stop Man U making a £500 million profit.



If we try to take the moral grounds we won't get anywhere and may well get relegated even further.  Every chairman in the land has been accused of getting up to all sorts of dodgy deals by every supporter going. Those who are old enough will remember the pelters that George and Derek  Warburton use to get. The club and it's owners seem to be constantly accused of some form of corruption. Normally it's plain and simple - we don't have any money, we've a very small fan base and we're trying to live beyond our means.



I don't care what Roger Tamraz motives were for wanting to take over BWFC, providing he was prepared to back it up and make the club run at a profit who cares.

I don't know what Deano's motives were for wanting to take over - but it saved the club and we should be grateful for that. Lets give the new owners a chance and get behind the club for a change.

I think we're all behind the club sprite but we have differing views of what the new owners are doing and more importantly can do beyond the current condition of simple knife edge survival. I won't go on about the embargo etc or the job cuts, I've done them to death. But the fact we still don't have a manager after so long suggests to me at least that no one really wants it and the reason for that is they've found out they'll have to work with both hands tied behind their back and wearing a blindfold.

In all honesty I'm personally grateful to Ken and Dean for keeping our club alive at least for now but I think there are a lot more struggles ahead of us before we even arrest the slide let alone start climbing up the ladder again. Right now it's hard for me to see Ken and Dean as anything more than interim owners, place holders who will spend a couple of years balancing the books then look to sell on and get out for whatever profit they can make. I have no problem with that if that's the case but I still can't help wondering why Tamraz was so blatantly ignored when he clearly has the resources and the will to do much more than Sport Shield could. For me Eddie and Phil have a lot to answer for in this entire process.

Where does this notion that Holdsworth and Anderson have "kept the club alive" or "saved it" come from?

I keep reading comments along those lines, not only on here, but in the wider media.

They haven't saved anything.

We were never going to get wound up by the court because Davies had the paperwork for Administration filed well in advance of the various hearings, so liquidation was never even on the table, let alone snatched off it.

In fact, given that we were obviously heading down to League 1 anyway and our new owners are struggling to pay the bills already, you could make the argument that we'd have been better off (for the health of the club, not for SS, Anderson and President Edwin mind) to have taken the points deduction last season when it didn't matter, instead of trying to stumble along through the summer, realise they can't afford to run the club and wind up in Administration this summer and facing the prospect of beginning life in League 1 on -15 points.

The only reason things went down to the wire at the High Court (if you believe all this "30 minutes before the hearing" bollocks), was because ED stood to lose out financially if he had had to play the Admin card, so he hung on right to the death.

This is what really pisses me off about it all, the way history's being rewritten already.

And I'm genuinely not having a pop at anybody on here with those comments.

gloswhite wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

scottjames30 wrote:I hope we get promoted next season, shut up all the negative tits.

As one of the negative mammary glands in question I think a question would be in order here scott.

Just how likely do you think promotion is?

I'd love it personally, it would be fantastic to have something like that to cheer about after the last twelve months but I'd be lying if I said I can see it happening. So if you disagree and think there's something to be cheerful about now (other than the club's existence) then please, share it with us because I could certainly use something to hope for concerning the club and I'd bet I'm not alone in that.

Peter, all this negativity is depressing, and painfully drawn out with your long posts.

Can I ask what you would like/expect to see happening to the club and team, and how it can be taken forward from where we are. Surely, there must be something you can see that gives us a little hope ? Just a little bit of constructive criticism ?

Glos, I think the fact we avoided admin if not liquidation was a good thing. I may sound negative about our immediate prospects because I feel that way. But here's what I want to see that I believe should be realistically possible.

First, the embargo has got to go. It's lunacy to leave it in place imo (although I can see the logic behind it in purely financial terms) because it puts off any potential manager or investor. Lusty in particular has posted his opinion about why it doesn't really matter but I disagree, this is a major issue of perception, of how the club is viewed from the outside.

Second, the new manager. This ties into the first imo but whether or not the embargo is still in place doesn't change the fact we need the manager question settled quickly. I realise it's only May but the players report back for pre-season in about five weeks and the transfer window opens on July 1st. We need someone in that seat before those two events and the way it's dragged on already is annoying the hell out of me. I suspect it'll be Peter Reid or perhaps JP with Reidy as DoF but in honesty I would be fine with that, I just want the damned thing settled so we can move forward.

Third, I don't expect to see us romping League One even if the above points are dealt with. What I hope to see is that the club as a whole comes together and we see a better spirit running through it than we have over the last few months in particular. I would be fine with a mid table finish if the lads on the pitch have given their best and the manager has got the most out of them. Let's face it we haven't exactly seen a lot to cheer at the Macron recently have we? I want to see a reason to hope again, not necessarily instant success but a reason to believe the worst is truly over and we've touched bottom would make me very happy indeed.

If those three things are too much to ask then I fear for this club's future. If they're not, if they get addressed then I'm going to go back to being a cock eyed optimist who firmly believes that Barcelona don't come to the Macron because they're scared of being hammered 26-0 by some real footballers.

The upside of having 23 senior professionals under contract next season, half of whom have Premiership experience and a salary to match is that in theory, with the right motivation and organisation, they should be good enough to get promoted.

The fact that most of them will be out of contract in summer 2017 should provide the motivation to do well, so it's just a matter of finding a system that suits.
It would be another huge disappointment if they don't get promoted TBH - and I suspect Deano and Anderson are banking on it.

Regarding saving the club from liquidation I agree that it was never going to happen, what people are forgetting about administration is that if we had gone into administration and taken the points loss for last season we would have had to come out of it or we would have a loss of points next season too and it looks like we wouldn't have had the money to do that. So saving us from administration has at least got us starting the season on 0 points instead of -12.

The problem is the perception that being taken over by SS was some sort of scam engineered by Eddie & Phil.  When other names were initially thrown around I was excited at the prospect of new owners with cash to spend and hopes for the future.  Now we have SS who do seem to be a stop-gap answer for now.  So instead of us all celebrating a new era to begin......I think most of us are seeing further decline.  It's hard to get exited about it at the moment.
Whoever the new manager turns out to be will have nothing but video to judge the current players on. That's hard to know were the strengths & weaknesses are IMO.  Not to mention it sounds like the executives will be making footballing decisions on who is coming and going.
The bottom line of it is we all want to be positive for the new season but as of today there is nowt to make us feel that way.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

scottjames30 wrote:I hope we get promoted next season, shut up all the negative tits.

As one of the negative mammary glands in question I think a question would be in order here scott.

Just how likely do you think promotion is?

I'd love it personally, it would be fantastic to have something like that to cheer about after the last twelve months but I'd be lying if I said I can see it happening. So if you disagree and think there's something to be cheerful about now (other than the club's existence) then please, share it with us because I could certainly use something to hope for concerning the club and I'd bet I'm not alone in that.

Peter, all this negativity is depressing, and painfully drawn out with your long posts.

Can I ask what you would like/expect to see happening to the club and team, and how it can be taken forward from where we are. Surely, there must be something you can see that gives us a little hope ? Just a little bit of constructive criticism ?

Glos, I think the fact we avoided admin if not liquidation was a good thing. I may sound negative about our immediate prospects because I feel that way. But here's what I want to see that I believe should be realistically possible.

First, the embargo has got to go. It's lunacy to leave it in place imo (although I can see the logic behind it in purely financial terms) because it puts off any potential manager or investor. Lusty in particular has posted his opinion about why it doesn't really matter but I disagree, this is a major issue of perception, of how the club is viewed from the outside.

Second, the new manager. This ties into the first imo but whether or not the embargo is still in place doesn't change the fact we need the manager question settled quickly. I realise it's only May but the players report back for pre-season in about five weeks and the transfer window opens on July 1st. We need someone in that seat before those two events and the way it's dragged on already is annoying the hell out of me. I suspect it'll be Peter Reid or perhaps JP with Reidy as DoF but in honesty I would be fine with that, I just want the damned thing settled so we can move forward.

Third, I don't expect to see us romping League One even if the above points are dealt with. What I hope to see is that the club as a whole comes together and we see a better spirit running through it than we have over the last few months in particular. I would be fine with a mid table finish if the lads on the pitch have given their best and the manager has got the most out of them. Let's face it we haven't exactly seen a lot to cheer at the Macron recently have we? I want to see a reason to hope again, not necessarily instant success but a reason to believe the worst is truly over and we've touched bottom would make me very happy indeed.

If those three things are too much to ask then I fear for this club's future. If they're not, if they get addressed then I'm going to go back to being a cock eyed optimist who firmly believes that Barcelona don't come to the Macron because they're scared of being hammered 26-0 by some real footballers.

That's fair enough. Nothing too radical !

I'll be honest and say, at this stage, I almost don't care who the new manager will be. We can almost guarantee that they will not have been in a situation like ours, and that whoever it is, will be leaping about facing all sorts of situations not necessarily seen before.


The appointment is the crucial next step, and I believe all will fall into line after that.
Also, I cannot see Barca getting to us for at least 4 years

Andersons broke apparently.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Andersons broke apparently.

I don't think that's relevant as the club has no choice but to start trading profitably anyway so he shouldn't be expected to put in any more money apart from the £3 million in the business plan he is seeking from other investors to see us through next season.
That's why it's important that we stop giving our assets (including players) away on the cheap and stop getting taken to the cleaners when we buy players.

More disquieting rumours coming out of the Macron today.

No money to pay the players this month and Holdsworth and Anderson's relationship almost completely in ruins.

Administration beckons.

(No cheques please, Whittam - Paypal only. Ta.)

Breadman wrote:More disquieting rumours coming out of the Macron today.

No money to pay the players this month and Holdsworth and Anderson's relationship almost completely in ruins.

Administration beckons.

(No cheques please, Whittam - Paypal only. Ta.)

Be careful, you almost seem happy that administration could be possible.

Administration's been almost nailed on ever since Eddie Davies pulled the plug 18 months ago.

If he'd have sold to someone with some actual cash it may have been avoided but given that he opted to put his own interests over the club's by selling to a pair of clueless barrow boys, neither of whom have a pot to piss in, it was always going to happen.

So whilst I don't derive any pleasure from the situation (obviously...), I'm not exactly surprised by it.

I agree with Breadman and wish we'd just bitten the bullet and gone into admin last season. We were already down in fact if not mathematically and a 12 point deduction then would have been much less costly than one that we get this term could turn out to be. I don't normally self-promote but I suspect Bread has seen the same article I did which I've posted for nutters here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If it's true and LoV have got their facts right it would explain a great deal.