Nuts EU Referendum - How will you be voting?

That's a bit over the top Karly.

Whatever you think of 74's views at least he has them and puts them across properly.

I tend to agree with him regarding that certain immigrants make a contribution to this country. It isn't about stopping immigrants coming here but controlling the numbers, knowing how many and not just letting any Tom, Dick or Harry in (or Mateusz, Igors and Andrzej in this case).

karlypants wrote:How to get a council house on channel 4 last week showed what is wrong with the EU and immigration.

Did anyone else watch it?

Can you explain what OUR social housing policy has to do with either the EU or immigrants?

Surely we decide the criteria for access to our Welfare State?

wanderlust wrote:

karlypants wrote:How to get a council house on channel 4 last week showed what is wrong with the EU and immigration.

Did anyone else watch it?

Can you explain what OUR social housing policy has to do with either the EU or immigrants?

Surely we decide the criteria for access to our Welfare State?

That's the problem Wanderlust it appears we don't, and while the other nations are tying our hands with legislation meaning we are an easy target they are reducing their own countries exposure to immigration.
in the case of many of the Eastern European countries they are flapping about us leaving because so many of their countrymen are heading over here.
We cannot allow the EU to tell us what we have to pay people who want to come and live here, because by doing that they are perpetuating the influx of people here and making us more attractive than their own countries thus limiting their exposure.
Forgive the example of the Poles because generally they are an industrious people, but the fact that they can't earn anything like the money in Poland that they do in the UK means our own people can't compete with them in terms over labour rates, but couple that with the fact that they also get our in work benefits to supplement that (in many cases sending this back to Poland) means that whatever they contribute in terms of labour they cost us in many other ways.
No wonder they want to continue to dictate or welfare policies, read the link
http://www.euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/poland-against-reducing-benefits-to-poles-who-already-live-in-uk/

The welfare state is being dismantled by the Tories and people want to blame immigrants. Absolute pisstake I'm afraid, we should be focused on kicking them out of office.

bwfc1874 wrote:The welfare state is being dismantled by the Tories and people want to blame immigrants. Absolute pisstake I'm afraid, we should be focused on kicking them out of office.

And replace them with who, they're all as bad as each other

whatsgoingon wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:The welfare state is being dismantled by the Tories and people want to blame immigrants. Absolute pisstake I'm afraid, we should be focused on kicking them out of office.

And replace them with who, they're all as bad as each other

There's no Labour, Lib dem, Green or SNP policy to further cut public spending, and all of those parties share a policy of building more social housing not cutting it.

Which beggars the question why are they not in power, the answer is because they are a bunch of incompetent fuckwits who would make things worse rather than better.
We've seen first hand what can happen when a football club is run irresponsibly and incompetently, imagine a country being run that way.
Who pays for this social housing

Sluffy wrote:I'm at an age where I can see my country slowly (well not that slowly at all in recent years) not being the country that I knew.

I think in all honesty it no longer matters much if we stay or leave the EU, the change in culture and ethnicity of our population as gone past the point of going back to how it used to be.

We've always had waves of immigration into the country - Christ the phrase 'Anglo Saxon' which many of us identify ourselves with can be traced back to the two tribes of GERMAN migrants settling in this country pre-Roman time.

Migration is not a problem if the country (any country) can absorb it and the migrants want to integrate with the people already there.

Sadly one culture based on its religious dogma will not allow that to be achieved under its scriptures.

The die has already been cast as such and a tolerance of each other - which there mainly has been needs to be strengthened not agitated by people in both camps.

I don't really see much point in hankering for the past - that has gone - and so to the future we must look.

At my age it no longer is my country - it is now that of my grown daughter and her generation and the generation that will in turn come after her.

She sees the world with fresh eyes, not knowing, understanding, or even caring what change I have seen, and in turn no doubt her children (God willing) will care not for her view when their time comes.

Rather than have boarders, nationality's and religions we should work towards the benefits of working together to build a future than running and hiding from the inevitable.

That won't happen in my lifetime nor probably not my daughters either - maybe it never will but surely we should never stop striving for it?

Maybe I'm unrealistic in my utopian vision but better to embrace the world than hide from it surely?

In my heart I want to vote exit from the EU but I know the tide will never stop even if we do pull up the drawbridge at the tunnel.

My head says the future is continuing with the EU - with all its faults - and there are many - than to bury our heads in the sand and deny that the world has changed and we as a country have less and less of a say in it as the years go by.

Maybe I am that Turkey voting for Christmas - but I do know Christmas will come eventually if I voted for it or not.

I'll step down from my soapbox now.

Sorry if you disagree with my views - they are just my personal take on things.

Good post. 

whatsgoingon wrote:Which beggars the question why are they not in power, the answer is because they are a bunch of incompetent fuckwits who would make things worse rather than better.
We've seen first hand what can happen when a football club is run irresponsibly and incompetently, imagine a country being run that way.
Who pays for this social housing

We pay for it through our taxes, rather than chasing a meaningless deficit target only put in place as an excuse to reduce the size of the state. You're in dreamland if you think this government are spending enough on public services.

DEMOCRACY IN THE UK

All those eligible to vote go out once every five years and pick the team they hate the least. this results in a team that only 38% of people voted for making ALL the decisions and creating all the IDEAS for laws. The actual laws are then written by UNELECTED civil servants before going to a vote in the ELECTED houses of Parliament. These laws are then passed on to the UNELECTED House of Lords who can say "we don't like that - go away and try again". After... three tries of trying to get it past the UNELECTED House of Laws, it gets passed anyway where it is sent to be signed by an UNELECTED official (the Queen) to sign that she is happy for us to implement it.

DEMOCRACY IN THE EU

All those eligible to vote go out once every five years and pick the team they hate the least. After some maths are done the Team with 38% of the vote get 38% of the available seats. The team with 22% of the vote get 22% of the available seats etc etc.
The ELECTED leaders of each country then decide what priorities the EU should have and ask the UNELECTED (although selected by the leaders of all countries) EU commission to write some laws. They write some laws they think sound pretty good and send them to the ELECTED and PROPORTIOANL European Parliament to say if they should go ahead. If the EU parliament pass it - it becomes a law. If they don't - the Commission have to go away and try again. And keep trying over and over again until they create something the Parliament decide should pass.

DEMOCRACY IN ATION:
Your local MP has a voice of 0.2% within Westminster
Your MEP is part of the UK Club and they have a voice of 9.2% within Brussels/Strasbourg
Therefore your MEP's have more a voice than your local MP


Now explain to me how the EU version is undemocratic and the UK version is the way it should be?

bwfc71 wrote:DEMOCRACY IN THE UK

All those eligible to vote go out once every five years and pick the team they hate the least. this results in a team that only 38% of people voted for making ALL the decisions and creating all the IDEAS for laws. The actual laws are then written by UNELECTED civil servants before going to a vote in the ELECTED houses of Parliament. These laws are then passed on to the UNELECTED House of Lords who can say "we don't like that - go away and try again". After... three tries of trying to get it past the UNELECTED House of Laws, it gets passed anyway where it is sent to be signed by an UNELECTED official (the Queen) to sign that she is happy for us to implement it.

DEMOCRACY IN THE EU

All those eligible to vote go out once every five years and pick the team they hate the least. After some maths are done the Team with 38% of the vote get 38% of the available seats. The team with 22% of the vote get 22% of the available seats etc etc.
The ELECTED leaders of each country then decide what priorities the EU should have and ask the UNELECTED (although selected by the leaders of all countries) EU commission to write some laws. They write some laws they think sound pretty good and send them to the ELECTED and PROPORTIOANL European Parliament to say if they should go ahead. If the EU parliament pass it - it becomes a law. If they don't - the Commission have to go away and try again. And keep trying over and over again until they create something the Parliament decide should pass.

DEMOCRACY IN ATION:
Your local MP has a voice of 0.2% within Westminster
Your MEP is part of the UK Club and they have a voice of 9.2% within Brussels/Strasbourg
Therefore your MEP's have more a voice than your local MP


Now explain to me how the EU version is undemocratic and the UK version is the way it should be?

Another good post. All food for thought.

I watched the big debate on ITV tonight and i thought the Leave campaign actually came across much better. Angela Eagles for remain was bloody hopeless. I wouldn't pay her in washers.
The more the Remain crowd paint a picture of doom and gloom and an impending apocalypse, the more I am leaning towards getting the hell out.

Not seen any of the so-called programmes with regards to the EU referendum mainly because it is propaganda vs propaganda - some will win on the nights and other will win on the others night.

Fact is no hard facts are being given as to what we lose or what we gain in both cases

It has become the leadership campaign for The conservative Party - or as some say, Blue on Blue.

everyone knows how I am going to vote and it is from what I have observed and lived through - all personal experience, rather that scaremongering.

It's not immigration, it's an invasion.

Uncontrolled with no limits, it adds to a soaring population that the infrastructure of this country cannot sustain. Where are the new houses, schools, hospitals being built to satisfy this influx ? There are none. The pressure on our public services will eventually prove too much to bear.

It's not about all about jobs as the Remain camp have us believe. Cameron and co. are the biggest hypocrites going. He went to Brussels promising us all far reaching reforms and came back with nothing more than crumbs brushed off the EU table. And even those four items still have to be ratified by the EU. 

He even told us not to worry if Turkey joins the EU, it's not going to happen for decades.

Well, good luck with that then grandkids.

Leave, all the way.

King Bill wrote:It's not immigration, it's an invasion.

Uncontrolled with no limits, it adds to a soaring population that the infrastructure of this country cannot sustain. Where are the new houses, schools, hospitals being built to satisfy this influx ? There are none. The pressure on our public services will eventually prove too much to bear.

It's not about all about jobs as the Remain camp have us believe. Cameron and co. are the biggest hypocrites going. He went to Brussels promising us all far reaching reforms and came back with nothing more than crumbs brushed off the EU table. And even those four items still have to be ratified by the EU. 

He even told us not to worry if Turkey joins the EU, it's not going to happen for decades.

Well, good luck with that then grandkids.

Leave, all the way.

So having passport CONTROL is uncontrolled?

Largest number of migrants are non from non-EU countries and as such the EU has NO power whatsoever as these people require to buy visas to enter the country, whether they get a visa r not.  then when they do come there are so many stipulations to be adhered to - also lets not forget that for non-EU citizens they alredy hve to pass the points system.

As for EU members, hmm I was a migrant TWICE - first when I moved to The Netherlands and secondly when I moved back to the UK and for first 12 months I was classed as a migrant.  But on my ravels I have to go through passport control - and yet before even getting to the airport all passport details have to be given (for everyone entering and leaving the UK) so that background checks are done by the security services.

I have seen so many EU citizens refused entry at the UK Border Force - passport control that one could say it is unbelievable, but it does happen.

Also lets not forget that we can ban any EU citizen from entering the country such as Geert Wilders and Marie le Pen!

The pressure on our public services is are own downfall due to cuts in public spending over the last 50 years and has NOTHING to do with the EU.  Margaret Thatcher introduced Right to buy whilst telling councils they couldn't build replacement for at least 30 years - so we are at least 30 years behind in building replacements.  As for NHS consecutive Governments have messed around let right and centre - top-down readdressing etc etc etc money thrown at re-organisation after re-organisation and same goes for other public bodies such as Education army etc etc etc.   None of which are directives from the EU but complete mis-management from the Westminster.

So if we do leave the EU we will still have lack of housing, lack of schools, large migration issues (even worse as any trade deal with EU will mean open borders - Schengen Agreement thus no internal passport control whatsoever - due to UK being "landlocked" by EU territory), cuts left right and centre to other departments as we need to find money to pay to trade with EU and get absolute nothing back.

As for Turkey it needs a uninanmous vote from all 28 countries if it is ever to join the EU and out of 29 criteria points it has passed 1 in 20 years.  But the best thing is do you honestly think that Cyprus will ever vote yes to Turkey whilst Turkey still occupies large part of Cyprus, illegally???

bwfc1874 wrote:The welfare state is being dismantled by the Tories and people want to blame immigrants. Absolute pisstake I'm afraid, we should be focused on kicking them out of office.

Good luck with that doubt it will happen in my lifetime. 
The biggest enemy of the working man is the working man, and that dickhead Corbyn is a joke so little option there.

The only way forward as I see it, is a rigid policy of controlled immigration. Those who wish to come and live here with the pre-requisite skills and qualifications should not be exempt irrespective of where they come from. The problem with the current EU policy of open borders is that anyone with an EU passport can pretty much travel throughout Europe as they please. Unfortunately our Welfare system is very attractive to thousands and thousands of EU members who do not have the same benevolent conditions in their own countries.
As it stands, the situation cannot continue indefinitely because our own essential services are creaking under the additional strain put on resources by uncontrolled migration. For this reason I am seriously starting to lean towards Brexit.

I just sent my postal vote off this morning.

Reebok Trotter wrote:The only way forward as I see it, is a rigid policy of controlled immigration. Those who wish to come and live here with the pre-requisite skills and qualifications should not be exempt irrespective of where they come from. The problem with the current EU policy of open borders is that anyone with an EU passport can pretty much travel throughout Europe as they please. Unfortunately our Welfare system is very attractive to thousands and thousands of EU members who do not have the same benevolent conditions in their own countries.
As it stands, the situation cannot continue indefinitely because our own essential services are creaking under the additional strain put on resources by uncontrolled migration. For this reason I am seriously starting to lean towards Brexit.

But freedom of movement is an ideology that doesn't succeed - just ask the English fans who have now been banned from France, or ask Geert Wilders and Marie Le Pen who are banned from UK or the 1000's of EU citizens are turned away at passport control every day.

As for the benefits - the UK has, today, won a court ruling that limits benefits to EU migrants - see being in the EU does have its advantages as if we were not in EU then the courts could have gone to international courts which could have ruled against us.  As it is under current EU laws anyone EU citizen that comes here and not got a job within 3 months have to leave to go back home or onwards to another EU country.

At this moment in time the number of migrants coming here - the majority are not actually from the EU but from non-EU countries thus immigration will still be considerably high whether we are in the EU or not - and lets not forget that the EU has NO policy with regards to non-EU citizens coming to the UK, all that is done by Westminster.

As for the essential services at creaking point - that is not the fault of the EU or migrants but successive Governments who have not fulfilled their duty to public services such as building social housing or paying the dues to the NHS education etc etc etc (instead wasting money on reform after reform after reform) - no long term 50 year plan but with every new Government a reform to what they want which then gets reformed again with a new Government after the Elections.

I'm no fan of Bob Geldof but he makes some telling points. Specifically:

One Britain makes more money than any other country in Europe from fishing. Two, Britain has the second largest quota for fish in Europe after Denmark. Three, Britain has the third largest landings. Four, Farage is no fisherman's friend. He was on the European Parliament Fishing Committee and only attended one out of 43 meetings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36537180