Seems the Labour Party is imploding

A Socialist leading the Labour Party.

Oh my good God!

boltonbonce wrote:A Socialist leading the Labour Party.

Oh my good God!

Back to the good old days when you could see which party stood for what and could vote accordingly, instead of a load of grey middle of the road mush that stand for anything they think might win them some votes, and dictated to by spin doctors.

whatsgoingon wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:A Socialist leading the Labour Party.

Oh my good God!

Back to the good old days when you could see which party stood for what and could vote accordingly, instead of a load of grey middle of the road mush that stand for anything they think might win them some votes, and dictated to by spin doctors.

I don't disagree that Corbyn is clearly to the left of Blair and Brown or that the Labour Party should be led by a Socialist. However even socialism has had to evolve in the modern world and for me at least Corbyn's thinking is stuck in the 1950's. The days when we were a manufacturing led economy and manual jobs were plentiful are long gone and not coming back. Clause IV is deader than the Bay City Rollers' pants and the fact is re-nationalising everything Thatcher and her cronies privatised in the 80's is impossible in both a practical and legal sense.

Personally I feel certain things should be State Owned, in particular utility companies and public transport. I believe the State should maintain our healthcare system (and far more effectively than the last few governments have done) and our education system (again with proper resources and including salaries that attract people who can do what they're teaching rather than those who scraped a degree in a given subject and became teachers because they couldn't cope with the real world) along with things like our armed forces and our judiciary (ie police, courts, prisons and so forth). Whether or not that could be done effectively without a massive shake up of the tax system is open to question, especially since voters in general ultimately vote with their wallets rather than any altruistic sense of what's good for the country as a whole.

If Socialism in Britain is going to survive in the 21st Century as a serious political force that actually makes a difference it needs to accept the fact we live in a very different world to the one we had in 1948 when the Welfare State was established. Whether or not it can do that remains to be seen.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

whatsgoingon wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:A Socialist leading the Labour Party.

Oh my good God!

Back to the good old days when you could see which party stood for what and could vote accordingly, instead of a load of grey middle of the road mush that stand for anything they think might win them some votes, and dictated to by spin doctors.

If Socialism in Britain is going to survive in the 21st Century as a serious political force that actually makes a difference it needs to accept the fact we live in a very different world to the one we had in 1948 when the Welfare State was established. Whether or not it can do that remains to be seen.

That's right. We need an idealistic young leader who can take Labour forward into the uncertain world we find ourselves in today.

We need a new kind of Socialism.


Now,let me see......

Just finished reading Broken Vows by Tom Bower. It is a devastating study of Tony Blair.

xmiles wrote:Just finished reading Broken Vows by Tom Bower.  It is a devastating study of Tony Blair.

Cheers.

I'm having that for my relaxing holiday read by the pool.

Breadman wrote:

xmiles wrote:Just finished reading Broken Vows by Tom Bower.  It is a devastating study of Tony Blair.

Cheers.

I'm having that for my relaxing holiday read by the pool.

No matter how much you hated him before you will hate him even more after reading this book.

I see that Owen Smith ( Lancashire lad) wants to try Angela's shoes on.

I watched Bliar on Panorama last night. A terrible indictment of his handling of the Iraq war. The Chilcott Enquiry is due any day now!

God told him to do it apparently.

The knob....

Has anyone heard from Breaders since that last comment or has he been smited for calling God a knob? 

He's brown bread



Don't call me a knob, you knob

I talked to god in a phonebox on my way home.

This doesn't bode well for the Labour party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769

xmiles wrote:This doesn't bode well for the Labour party.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36753769

This doesn't change anything though. The Labour Party's core vote has been split between those who want to continue the class struggle and those who are concerned about cultural dilution so it will take an exceptional personality to unite the traditional vote (if it's not changed irrevocably) and put up some kind of challenge to the Tories and until that person comes along they will struggle.
Unfortunately history has shown that Labour only win elections when the economy has been f****d over by the Tories - and vice versa - so whilst we are waiting for the crash Labour should be using the time to reinvent themselves and find the Messiah.

I'm not Corbyn's biggest fan by any means but I've been thinking about this for the last couple of weeks and have come to the conclusion that challenging his leadership right now is a stupid thing to do. The Tories are quietly tearing themselves apart and showing just how nasty they really are in the campaign between Leadsom and May and Labour would be far better off just sitting back quietly and letting the Tories destroy themselves from within without distraction. A Labour leadership election can only serve to take some of the heat off the Tories and if it were me I'd do whatever I could to avoid that. I respect Eagle's position and even understand what some of the Parliamentary party are saying but right now is the worst possible time to be dividing the party. That's why if and when the vote comes through my letterbox (I'm a Labour party member) I'll vote Corbyn even though I think he's too old fashioned in his view of what Socialism is and should be.

I disagree. The Tories will unite around May apart from a tiny minority of far right Brexit loons. The Tory party isn't tearing itself apart. They have rejected Gove and Boris didn't even stand.

On the other hand the Labour party is tearing itself apart. Corbyn, even if you ignore his politics, is a terrible leader. He has no presence in Parliament and his polite approach reminds me in a way of IDS (the "quiet man") who was equally ineffective as a leader. His "support" for Remain was truly pathetic and counterproductive and exposed his principles as so much hot air. He has been rejected by the vast majority of Labour MPs and just clings to a job for which he is totally unsuited. The idea that a man who rejected the party whip so many times can expect people to follow his party line would be ironic if it wasn't so ludicrous.

He needs to go so that a new leader can try to recapture the centre ground. My own politics are left wing but I recognise that without forming alliances or persuading more people to vote Labour there is no way we are going to see a Labour government for a very long time.

xmiles wrote:I disagree. The Tories will unite around May apart from a tiny minority of far right Brexit loons. The Tory party isn't tearing itself apart. They have rejected Gove and Boris didn't even stand.

On the other hand the Labour party is tearing itself apart. Corbyn, even if you ignore his politics, is a terrible leader. He has no presence in Parliament and his polite approach reminds me in a way of IDS (the "quiet man") who was equally ineffective as a leader. His "support" for Remain was truly pathetic and counterproductive and exposed his principles as so much hot air. He has been rejected by the vast majority of Labour MPs and just clings to a job for which he is totally unsuited. The idea that a man who rejected the party whip so many times can expect people to follow his party line would be ironic if it wasn't so ludicrous.

He needs to go so that a new leader can try to recapture the centre ground. My own politics are left wing but I recognise that without forming alliances or persuading more people to vote Labour there is no way we are going to see a Labour government for a very long time.

Fair enough xmiles and I do agree with you that Corbyn is not a very effective leader but I don't think Eagles would be either. Whether or not someone else who can unite the party will stand is open to question but I think Corbyn still enjoys support from the majority of the grass roots even though the PLP seems to be against him.

I disagree with you on the Tories, they're already going after each other with smears and lies that are splitting the party and their traditional media supporters. Look at the 'quotes' attributed to May just this week. She's alleged to have said convicted paedophiles should be allowed to adopt AND that Sharia Law is of great benefit to many in Britain. Leadsom is now being painted as having said May can't lead because she has no children and various papers are twisting it to say she's having a bash at gay people, single people, unmarried couples and infertile women. Trust me on this, that campaign between a Remain supporter and a Leave supporter is going to get very ugly before it's over and Labour would be best served by keeping their heads down and staying out of the way which (imo) would only be good for the country as well.

I'd like the Labour Party leader to be as charismatic and as appealing to the masses as Tony Blair was in 1997 but I don't think we have anyone like that at the moment. Please feel free to name who you think the right person is if you can think of one because I really would like to find him or her.

I wish I could suggest a suitable candidate to not only unite the Labour party but regain popular support. While Eagle is a far from charismatic leader she is unlikely to be quite as useless as Corbyn. I still feel that the longer we have a leader with no credibility the more damage is likely to be done to the Labour party and I would not entirely rule out a split in the party itself - remember the SDP?

As you say Blair was the most charismatic leader we have had for a long time but boy did that go wrong. I can only repeat my plug for Tom Bower's evisceration of Blair in Broken Vows if anyone still has doubts about this.

More deluded bullshit from Corbyn. Pity he didn't show such passion when he was "supporting" Remain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36754892