Brexit negotiations

What day is it? Wednesday or something like that? It's just that the media had a big hurrah about the negotiations starting on Monday and that the first day would outline the overall picture but I haven't heard anything yet from the Tory media. Huffington post had something about the EU leaders trying to stop laughing and a few rags talking about the massive price Britain will have to pay But other than that they've been quiet. I mean silent. Like a baby rabbit in a wolfs lair. 
There was something about what will happen when the young labour voters realise they have voted for a pro brexit party but other than that zilch. 

Perhaps that's a sign it's going well 

Talks have started and next major meeting is sometime next month, just before Brussels start their summer break (Westminster MPs have far more holidays than Brussels MEPs and get paid more than Brussels MEPs)

Basically David Davis wanted all major points to be discussed at same time, thus trying to break the EU protocol of divorce - it was naturally declined.

UK has never had, and never will have the upper hand in these talks as it is one country of 65 million against 27 countries with a total population of about 600million.  Why would EU want to give us a better deal than now, which would lead to other countries wanting the same.  yes there will be trade but prices will rise, co-operative jobs will move and the Banks will definitely make UK smaller market than now.

The thing that gets me is that the idiot Davis seemed actually surprised that he was quickly put in his box. I suspect he genuinely believes all the crap that the corporates spouted to trick the nation to vote us out of Europe. 

It's going to be a very, very steep learning curve. That said I'm not convinced he's smart enough to work it out before it's too late.

It wasn't the corporates that persuaded people to vote brexit - most of them wanted us to stay in the EU. It was the combination of right wing media, racists and some opportunist politicians leading project lie sponsored by a few billionaires. Couple that with the inept project fear, Corbyn and apathy amongst young voters and we have the disaster that we now face.

You two should listen to yourselves. Its gone from repetitive, to amusing, and now its just pathetic.

Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

xmiles wrote:Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

52% voted for Brexit. That's a majority, albeit a slim one.

So are you saying that the 52%, which will include some very clever people, are all wrong? And you are 100% right.

Don't answer that, because we know you and wanderlust think you are a pair of smarty-pants.

We know your views, why you feel the need to keep posting them is beyond me. Brexit is going to happen, you need to accept it. All you're doing now is pissing people off.

i'll think you'll find someone high up on here has that job more than covered Nat

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:Glos what will it take to convince you that brexit is a mistake?

52% voted for Brexit. That's a majority, albeit a slim one.

So are you saying that the 52%, which will include some very clever people, are all wrong? And you are 100% right.

Don't answer that, because we know you and wanderlust think you are a pair of smarty-pants.

We know your views, why you feel the need to keep posting them is beyond me. Brexit is going to happen, you need to accept it. All you're doing now is pissing people off.

So you think that if 37% of the electorate vote for something it must be right and cannot be questioned.

xmiles wrote:So you think that if 37% of the electorate vote for something it must be right and cannot be questioned.

It can be questioned, it can be mocked. But it won't change a damn thing. So why keep making threads about it?

May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

xmiles wrote:It wasn't the corporates that persuaded people to vote brexit - most of them wanted us to stay in the EU. It was the combination of right wing media, racists and some opportunist politicians leading project lie sponsored by a few billionaires. Couple that with the inept project fear, Corbyn and apathy amongst young voters and we have the disaster that we now face.

Have a look into The Atlantic Bridge organisation and the Atlantic Bridge Project and their right wing billionaire corporate influence on voting and elections here and in the USA - which includes control of the media to their own ends. Here's a starter which appeared in the Gurniad. 

Another aspect is that whilst corporation tax is 34% in France and 30% in Germany it remains at just 20% in the U.K. - one of the great concerns is that we are effectively moving towards being a corporate tax haven as several parts of the U.K. Overseas already are. We are already kowtowing to and incentivising the corporates by undercutting the EU so you have to wonder how much further down that road are the tories prepared to take us in order to sort out the economy? Obviously they could raise CT by 10% to bring us in line with the rest of Europe and stabilise our economy overnight but they won't.

There is a lot of corporate benefit in brexit and the Atlantic Bridge and others have the money, influence (funding both the tories and ukip) and control of the media to make it happen. Easy to drip feed a oversimplified populist message through their many media outlets.

wanderlust wrote:May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

She won't survive the negotiations. Not a cat in hell's chance.

finlaymcdanger wrote:

wanderlust wrote:May's opening gambit is a concession - that beyond a date yet to be agreed EU nationals living in the U.K. Will get benefits and healthcare if they are here for 5 years,

Absolutely nothing in return from the EU as you'd expect from any sensible negotiator.

She's already played a key card, got zilch for it and lost the confidence of the more extreme right who voted to leave in one fell swoop. They're pissing their sides all over Europe today.

Absolutely bricking it just thinking of what she'll do next – but we'll find out soon enough.

She won't survive the negotiations. Not a cat in hell's chance.

You reckon? Too many people have stuck their necks out way to far to support the brexit pipe dream to get rid of her now imo. 

We're going all the way to hell.

Although it's always possible they might panic and throw some other fool into the firing line to take the rap.

After the opening pleasantries, Davis launches himself into the talks today with the strapline "Now let's get down to business" which is amusing to the Europeans as it's Britain that has been prevaricating thus far, distracted by a stupid election. I suspect that we'll finally get an idea of how it's going over the next week or so as the details start to leak out and the press express their delight or more likely indignation as they try to align their oversimplified pre-Brexit stances with the reality of genuine negotiations with real humans.

It's going to be interesting to see the press reaction to British concessions. Would they be happy to sell out Gibraltar for example? if so it would be in sharp contrast to the media furore when the Argies tried to take back the Falklands. And what of the exit fee or freedom of movement? 

Fireworks ahead I reckon.

It amuses me to see how the UK is always painted in a bad light with regards to negotiations, but I would point out that if the Europeans were so good, how come it takes so many years to actually finish anything, and even when they have to just sign on the dotted line, a petty political institution, caring only about their own local concerns, can put the boot in, and win. 
Considering there are 27 'teams' on the other side, any prevarication, delays, and problems are more likely to come from the political and financial in-fighting amongst the so-called united Europe ministers, than it is from the UK. Don't blame the UK for all the problems that will arise.

Did anyone catch Daniel Barenboim's speech at the end of his prom?

It starts at 1hr 50m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ymnr0/bbc-proms-2017-barenboims-elgar

boltonbonce wrote:Did anyone catch Daniel Barenboim's speech at the end of his prom?

It starts at 1hr 50m.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ymnr0/bbc-proms-2017-barenboims-elgar

He's dead right about the main problem being the lack of education promulgating isolationism and nationalism. Also agree that people fear what they don't understand and religious fanaticism can only be fought with education.

Going about as well as expected:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40662740

You bellend, have you ever played poker? You don't show people your hand.