@wanderlust wrote:@Sluffy wrote:@wanderlust wrote:30% of Tory constituencies, 40% of Labour constituencies and 100% of the minority party constituencies (apart from 2 LD) voted to Remain at the original referendum so it's clear that if these MPs wanted to represent their electorate they would and should decline the party Whip.@Sluffy wrote:@xmiles wrote:MPs are not bound by how their constituencies voted on brexit. It was a referendum which was meant to advise parliament but in no sense does it bind the MPs to vote the way their constituents voted.
MPs often ignore what their constituents want. The most obvious example would be the free votes held in the past on the death penalty.
You are correct in what you say but there clearly was an overwhelming Brexit vote in the Parliamentary constituencies of all political persuasions that it was clear what the country wanted, even though the actual overall total vote was quite close in itself.
Moreover, Augusts independent poll showed that 113 constituencies that originally voted Leave have now switched to Remain so what's the story with those MPs? Shouldn't they also decline the party Whip?
Well yes they should because they are clearly putting party politics ahead of the wishes of the people that elected them.
So taken your percentages as stated that leaves 70% of Conservative and 60% of Labour constituencies voted for Brexit.
In the 2015 General election Conservatives won 330 seats (or 231 for Brexit) and Labour (or 139 for Brexit)
As there are 650 seats in Parliament that totals (including the two Lib Dem seats you mention voted for Brexit) 372 seats for Brexit and only 278 for Remain or roughly 57% to 43% in favour for Brexit.
A clear and unequivocal mandate from the country.
As for poll predictions, they have been notoriously wrong in recent years - not least in predicting the outcome of the referendum!
The only known mandate MP's have is how their constituents actually voted when they did.
The only way to gauge the final right of leaving the EU is by putting the final result of the country's negotiation to leave again to the country to vote on.
That's what I'd try to make happen if I were an elected MP of any party and whether I supported Brexit or not.
Not sure about your logic here when the point was about whether or not MPs should represent the wishes of their constituents or be told by their party that they should go against what their constituents have asked them to do.
Even with your dodgy figures it means that 278 MPs defied the wishes of their constituents and if the polls are accurate, or even if they are 10% out - which is highly unusual as the average error margin is 2% - it means that currently the majority of MPs in this country are going along with Brexit against the wishes of their constituents.
Are you are arguing that opinion polls have been notoriously wrong in recent years and yet the EU membership opinion poll was unquestionably right?
The passing of time is an interesting factor too. The parties are insisting on carrying through the views expressed in an opinion poll that took place two years ago but times have changed so why the fixation with pushing through a marginal historical opinion poll?
I used your figures you moron!
The 278 MP's which include the 'rebels' and the rest of the minor party's who voted to remain, still couldn't overturn a the majority 372 MP's in Parliamentary votes - so nothing would change you muppet!
Even if we used your dreamt of figure of a 10% switch from Brexit to remain for all the MP's then the 372 following the Brexit mandated by the public would drop by 37 to 335 and conversely the rebels and the representing Remain constituencies (as per the referendum) would increase by 37 to 315 and the Brexit mandated by the public vote would still remain!
The opinion polls at the time of the referendum predicted a Remain result - so how could I possibly be arguing that they were "unquestionably right" ffs???
Finally elections are held to give the winner of them a period of time to carry out their manifesto, that period of time in this country is usually five years for MP's (four years for local councillors). You don't call elections every two years because nothing would ever be achieved in that time. Similarly referendums aren't voted on every two minutes for the same reason.
Like it or not - and you clearly don't - the public have voted and given Parliament a mandate for Brexit. Even if all the MP's whose constituents didn't vote for Brexit formed a united opposition, they would still be in a considerable minority in Parliament and could not stop the will of the people as voted for in the referendum.
Even in your make believe world a further 10% of Brexit voting constituency MP's now somehow believed they should be against it, there would STILL be a majority in Parliament carrying out the peoples will of the Brexit vote.
Until a further public vote is made on Brexit no polls can say for certain that the majority of people still mandate it - or not.
A referendum on the final decision made between the Government and the EU would give the public the chance to mandate that they still wish to leave or reject the terms and wish to remain.
And that is what I would hope all MP's whether they support Brexit or Remain would wish to do as then everybody will have their chance to have a final say on the matter and willingly or not accept the final outcome.