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Brexit negotiations

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gloswhite
Dunkels King
wanderlust
Reebok Trotter
Natasha Whittam
Angry Dad
Hipster_Nebula
Growler
wessy
Cajunboy
rammywhite
okocha
finlaymcdanger
Norpig
karlypants
luckyPeterpiper
Sluffy
21 posters

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21Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 11:48

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Natasha Whittam wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:She’s just completely ballsed up the negotiations, Chequers was never going to be accepted - not even her own cabinet accepted it. She’s too weak to come up with a feasible solution as she’s more bothered about staying in power.

What a load of shite. She's there to get the best deal for the UK, if that takes time then so be it.

Weak she most definitely isn't. Perhaps she's finally learning a trick or two from my hero, Maggie T.




She isn't trying to get the best deal for the UK. She's trying to stay in power by pretending to be Maggie Thatcher. The trouble is, Maggie did what she thought was best for the UK. Theresa May can't do that because the 52/48 split fucked up any chance of that. You also have to remember, in the long run, none of these Politicians will give a fuck. They're all loaded and will all be in their Ivory Towers looking down on the great unwashed whilst swigging Champagne. Serioulsy, for her to threaten the EU is quite unbelievable. The UK tells Europe to fuck off then expects to be treated with respect ? There is plenty of respect from Europe. At the end of the day it is entirely up to THE UK to come up with what it wants - and clearly, they have no idea whatsoever still - before the EU can make a decision about it. I still think Brexit will be Brino. We get a Norwegian model. We are not in the EU, but we accept free movement and free trade. The net cost to the UK for that deal will be twice as much as when we were in the EU and without any voting rights on the regulations that we signed up to, but at least everyone will have a Black/Bluish Passport (Made in France) and get to see a British Doctor or Nurse probably sometime in the next 18 months whenever they are sick.

22Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 11:50

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Dunkels King wrote:
luckyPeterpiper wrote:lusty, with respect on the ex-pats issue I believe you're plain wrong. Since by definition ex-pats do not live in the UK they aren't likely to be materially affected by Brexit and frankly shouldn't have a say in matters about a country in which they no longer reside.

Put it this way, my mother was Scottish and I was born in Glasgow but we moved to Manchester when I was two years old. As a result when there was a referendum concerning Scottish independence from the UK I, like many other Scots born people living elsewhere did NOT get a vote and frankly I believe that was right.

Now, as to people's opinion changing on Brexit. I think it should be noted that those who most strongly favoured leaving the EU were the over 60's, in other words the part of our population least likely to have to live with the consequences in the long term. In my humble opinion when you look at the demographics in terms of age the young and middle aged were solidly in favour of remain and frankly I think it's a travesty that both groups will now pay the price for their forebear's short sighted 'Little England' thinking.

Basically Farage and the rest of the Brexit crowd played on fear, ignorance and outright bigotry with lots of help from the Murdoch owned papers and websites. Unfortunately though, this is a democracy and whether we agree or not the majority of voters said Leave. Whether they still feel that was right or not is for the moment beside the point. Article 50 was invoked and whether or not we like it we're out of the EU next year.

Finally, as to the assertion we should have a vote or referendum on the final deal. This is a moot point since there won't be a deal. There is no way the other 27 members of the EU will unanimously ratify anything that appears to treat Britain well. We'll be out and using WTO rules only no matter how hard May and her colleagues try to make us believe otherwise.

Frankly this is going to be a disaster for the UK and our kids will pay for it for years. But sadly the truth is we brought it on ourselves not just with the referendum but with the way our media and our people have spoken about Europe and it's inhabitants for the last several decades.


Well, I am an ex-pat, but I am a British Citizen. So where do I stand ? In Germany I cannot vote in their Elections because I am a Foreigner. I am British so I can still vote in the English Elections. Why should I be allowed to do that, and also why should I have been allowed a vote in the Referendum I hear you say ? It's simple. I paid in to the UK all the time I worked there. I still pay NI contributions in to the UK even though I live and work in Germany. I moved here based on an agreement of free movement in Europe. With that in mind it meant I could go and work in any of the other 27 Countries if (like it did in the UK) the shit hits the fan. Now, because of a load of older people and a load of xenophobic, easily tricked people (by that I mean morons like the guy from Barnsley who was on TV and said he voted leave because of all the Pakistanis and Indians coming in to the Country) if I lose my job here I am now forced to either find something here or move back to the UK. I have lost the chance to find work in one of the other EU Countries. Oh, and that's not being selfish thinking that way, it's simply being mightily pissed off that my life could be impacted by a decision that I could have no say in. That's the point, us ex-pats are MORE affected by this than anyone who lives in the UK, because 99% of the people who voted leave, probably even 100% had no interest to work overseas anyway. They just fucked it up for everyone else, and whilst I am on a bit of a rant, 52/48 is not "the peoples will". It is pretty much half of the vote and in an Election would not be a majority that would give you power, so it's bullshit anyway, and Referendum by definition is an opinion gathering excercise.

Rant over Smile

Good points DK. As for the "peoples will" only just over a third of those eligible to vote actually voted for brexit (including that moron in Barnsley).

Incidentally he might be interested to know that thanks to brexit we are likely to see more Indians and Pakistanis entering the country to fill all those job vacancies caused by the lack of europeans who won't be coming anymore.

23Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 12:11

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Dunkels King wrote:
Well, I am an ex-pat, but I am a British Citizen. So where do I stand ? In Germany I cannot vote in their Elections because I am a Foreigner. I am British so I can still vote in the English Elections. Why should I be allowed to do that, and also why should I have been allowed a vote in the Referendum I hear you say ? It's simple. I paid in to the UK all the time I worked there. I still pay NI contributions in to the UK even though I live and work in Germany. I moved here based on an agreement of free movement in Europe. With that in mind it meant I could go and work in any of the other 27 Countries if (like it did in the UK) the shit hits the fan. Now, because of a load of older people and a load of xenophobic, easily tricked people (by that I mean morons like the guy from Barnsley who was on TV and said he voted leave because of all the Pakistanis and Indians coming in to the Country) if I lose my job here I am now forced to either find something here or move back to the UK. I have lost the chance to find work in one of the other EU Countries. Oh, and that's not being selfish thinking that way, it's simply being mightily pissed off that my life could be impacted by a decision that I could have no say in. That's the point, us ex-pats are MORE affected by this than anyone who lives in the UK, because 99% of the people who voted leave, probably even 100% had no interest to work overseas anyway. They just fucked it up for everyone else, and whilst I am on a bit of a rant, 52/48 is not "the peoples will". It is pretty much half of the vote and in an Election would not be a majority that would give you power, so it's bullshit anyway, and Referendum by definition is an opinion gathering excercise.

Rant over Smile

Because you don't pay any bloody tax here so why should you be entitled to have a vote? You don't live here anymore so your interests should lie in Germany then. It is up to them if they allow you to vote or not there.

You pay the NI contributions to safe guard your state pension.

It does not matter if you paid tax and NI up until you left the UK to work in another country.

There's so many things wrong with this post it's unbelievable!

24Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 12:44

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

karlypants wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:
Well, I am an ex-pat, but I am a British Citizen. So where do I stand ? In Germany I cannot vote in their Elections because I am a Foreigner. I am British so I can still vote in the English Elections. Why should I be allowed to do that, and also why should I have been allowed a vote in the Referendum I hear you say ? It's simple. I paid in to the UK all the time I worked there. I still pay NI contributions in to the UK even though I live and work in Germany. I moved here based on an agreement of free movement in Europe. With that in mind it meant I could go and work in any of the other 27 Countries if (like it did in the UK) the shit hits the fan. Now, because of a load of older people and a load of xenophobic, easily tricked people (by that I mean morons like the guy from Barnsley who was on TV and said he voted leave because of all the Pakistanis and Indians coming in to the Country) if I lose my job here I am now forced to either find something here or move back to the UK. I have lost the chance to find work in one of the other EU Countries. Oh, and that's not being selfish thinking that way, it's simply being mightily pissed off that my life could be impacted by a decision that I could have no say in. That's the point, us ex-pats are MORE affected by this than anyone who lives in the UK, because 99% of the people who voted leave, probably even 100% had no interest to work overseas anyway. They just fucked it up for everyone else, and whilst I am on a bit of a rant, 52/48 is not "the peoples will". It is pretty much half of the vote and in an Election would not be a majority that would give you power, so it's bullshit anyway, and Referendum by definition is an opinion gathering excercise.

Rant over Smile

Because you don't pay any bloody tax here so why should you be entitled to have a vote? You don't live here anymore so your interests should lie in Germany then. It is up to them if they allow you to vote or not there.

You pay the NI contributions to safe guard your state pension.

It does not matter if you paid tax and NI up until you left the UK to work in another country.

There's so many things wrong with this post it's unbelievable!

So karly you think expats should not have a vote in British elections and referendums?

25Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 13:05

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

karlypants wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:
Well, I am an ex-pat, but I am a British Citizen. So where do I stand ? In Germany I cannot vote in their Elections because I am a Foreigner. I am British so I can still vote in the English Elections. Why should I be allowed to do that, and also why should I have been allowed a vote in the Referendum I hear you say ? It's simple. I paid in to the UK all the time I worked there. I still pay NI contributions in to the UK even though I live and work in Germany. I moved here based on an agreement of free movement in Europe. With that in mind it meant I could go and work in any of the other 27 Countries if (like it did in the UK) the shit hits the fan. Now, because of a load of older people and a load of xenophobic, easily tricked people (by that I mean morons like the guy from Barnsley who was on TV and said he voted leave because of all the Pakistanis and Indians coming in to the Country) if I lose my job here I am now forced to either find something here or move back to the UK. I have lost the chance to find work in one of the other EU Countries. Oh, and that's not being selfish thinking that way, it's simply being mightily pissed off that my life could be impacted by a decision that I could have no say in. That's the point, us ex-pats are MORE affected by this than anyone who lives in the UK, because 99% of the people who voted leave, probably even 100% had no interest to work overseas anyway. They just fucked it up for everyone else, and whilst I am on a bit of a rant, 52/48 is not "the peoples will". It is pretty much half of the vote and in an Election would not be a majority that would give you power, so it's bullshit anyway, and Referendum by definition is an opinion gathering excercise.

Rant over Smile

Because you don't pay any bloody tax here so why should you be entitled to have a vote? You don't live here anymore so your interests should lie in Germany then. It is up to them if they allow you to vote or not there.

You pay the NI contributions to safe guard your state pension.

It does not matter if you paid tax and NI up until you left the UK to work in another country.

There's so many things wrong with this post it's unbelievable!

So many things wrong only in your world. I still work for a British Company who pay their taxes in the UK. So the money THEY make from me working on THEIR behalf is taxed in the UK. The money I make from THEM is taxed in Germany, but so what ? Like it or not, I am British and can return at any time I want so I have a vested interest in what is getting fucked up whilst I am away. So you are happy in your world that I shouldn't have had a vote because I don't live in the UK, therefore you must be equally pissed that the EU Citizens living in the UK couldn't vote, because you can't have it both ways. After all, they are living in the UK, paying Tax in the UK, contributing to the economy in the UK, which is everything you are arguing for reasons that I shouldn't have got a vote. So you tell me why they didn't get a vote either ?

26Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 13:07

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

xmiles wrote:
karlypants wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:
Well, I am an ex-pat, but I am a British Citizen. So where do I stand ? In Germany I cannot vote in their Elections because I am a Foreigner. I am British so I can still vote in the English Elections. Why should I be allowed to do that, and also why should I have been allowed a vote in the Referendum I hear you say ? It's simple. I paid in to the UK all the time I worked there. I still pay NI contributions in to the UK even though I live and work in Germany. I moved here based on an agreement of free movement in Europe. With that in mind it meant I could go and work in any of the other 27 Countries if (like it did in the UK) the shit hits the fan. Now, because of a load of older people and a load of xenophobic, easily tricked people (by that I mean morons like the guy from Barnsley who was on TV and said he voted leave because of all the Pakistanis and Indians coming in to the Country) if I lose my job here I am now forced to either find something here or move back to the UK. I have lost the chance to find work in one of the other EU Countries. Oh, and that's not being selfish thinking that way, it's simply being mightily pissed off that my life could be impacted by a decision that I could have no say in. That's the point, us ex-pats are MORE affected by this than anyone who lives in the UK, because 99% of the people who voted leave, probably even 100% had no interest to work overseas anyway. They just fucked it up for everyone else, and whilst I am on a bit of a rant, 52/48 is not "the peoples will". It is pretty much half of the vote and in an Election would not be a majority that would give you power, so it's bullshit anyway, and Referendum by definition is an opinion gathering excercise.

Rant over Smile

Because you don't pay any bloody tax here so why should you be entitled to have a vote? You don't live here anymore so your interests should lie in Germany then. It is up to them if they allow you to vote or not there.

You pay the NI contributions to safe guard your state pension.

It does not matter if you paid tax and NI up until you left the UK to work in another country.

There's so many things wrong with this post it's unbelievable!

So karly you think expats should not have a vote in British elections and referendums?

I forgot to mention, half the people who voted Brexit probably "don't pay any bloody tax" either, and they are a burden on the UK whereas I am no burden at all. But I will be if I come back and just start scrounging benefits (something I have never done in 36 years of working) like a lot of free loaders that just blaim everything on the Smelly Eastern European Forriners (innit).

27Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 13:13

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Dunkels King wrote:I forgot to mention, half the people who voted Brexit probably "don't pay any bloody tax" either, and they are a burden on the UK whereas I am no burden at all. But I will be if I come back and just start scrounging benefits (something I have never done in 36 years of working) like a lot of free loaders that just blaim everything on the Smelly Eastern European Forriners (innit).

You've really let yourself down there DK, shameful post.

28Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 13:24

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:I forgot to mention, half the people who voted Brexit probably "don't pay any bloody tax" either, and they are a burden on the UK whereas I am no burden at all. But I will be if I come back and just start scrounging benefits (something I have never done in 36 years of working) like a lot of free loaders that just blaim everything on the Smelly Eastern European Forriners (innit).

You've really let yourself down there DK, shameful post.

Jesus christ Nat, can't you see through that ? It's literally making a point about the irony of some people. Go back to the days after the referendum. Retarded people were actually painting on doors of Polish people, their own bloody neighbours - "Fuck off home you smelly xxxx" - down in Peterborough blaming them for not having jobs. Half those people moved back to Poland, and guess what, the places they worked are still waiting for the Brits to take up the jobs. Some people simply don't want to work. Then, what is wrong with what I said. The truth hurts sometimes. I am not a burden on the UK (fact). Lot's of people who have no desire whatsoever to ever get a job are a burden on society (fact). Did I mention anywhere in my post otherwise ? Clearly, not half the people who voted Brexit don't pay Tax otherwise there would be 9.5 Million people on the dole !

Just remembered, a while back I asked you, as a top Business Person in Lancashire, to name one thing that will be better for you and your Company post Brexit. I never saw an answer.

29Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 14:19

luckyPeterpiper

luckyPeterpiper
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Dunkels my feeling on the ex-pat issue is this. You chose to live and work outside the UK and I suspect will continue to do so after Brexit. Plus of course there are many ex-pats who retire to Spain or France or some other warmer climate. I don't begrudge anyone the right to do what they feel they need to in order to benefit themselves and their families. On the contrary I think it must have been a difficult decision to go to a foreign country and stay there.

But on the subject of Brexit I felt and still feel that only UK residents should have voted. Just as I was denied a vote in the Scottish referendum because I live and work in England despite having been born in Glasgow.

As to the other posters on here assuming that everyone wants a no-deal exit I would say they're so far off the mark it's laughable. I am and remain (pun intended) a committed supporter of our membership in the EU. I accept we're leaving but I'm absolutely certain it will be a disaster for this country. Those like Nat who seem to think it means we'll suddenly become some sort of superpower in our own right or that we'll somehow become 'free' are at best deluding themselves and at worst they're complete idiots.

A no-deal exit is a certainty for reasons I've already stated several times and if anyone thinks that will be good for Britain I would say you need professional help.

30Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 15:21

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Dunkels my feeling on the ex-pat issue is this. You chose to live and work outside the UK and I suspect will continue to do so after Brexit. Plus of course there are many ex-pats who retire to Spain or France or some other warmer climate. I don't begrudge anyone the right to do what they feel they need to in order to benefit themselves and their families. On the contrary I think it must have been a difficult decision to go to a foreign country and stay there.

But on the subject of Brexit I felt and still feel that only UK residents should have voted. Just as I was denied a vote in the Scottish referendum because I live and work in England despite having been born in Glasgow.

As to the other posters on here assuming that everyone wants a no-deal exit I would say they're so far off the mark it's laughable. I am and remain (pun intended) a committed supporter of our membership in the EU. I accept we're leaving but I'm absolutely certain it will be a disaster for this country. Those like Nat who seem to think it means we'll suddenly become some sort of superpower in our own right or that we'll somehow become 'free' are at best deluding themselves and at worst they're complete idiots.

A no-deal exit is a certainty for reasons I've already stated several times and if anyone thinks that will be good for Britain I would say you need professional help.

As previously stated by me, I lost my job in the UK. The ONLY job I could take that kept me on a similar wage at that time was in Germany. I work in a fairly specialized industry so my options were limited, especially as this all came about as a result of 9/11. I have no intention to retire in Germany. We wanted to retire in Spain, but now even that could become an issue. Don't get me wrong, I understand some people have really good reasons for wanting Brexit. Unfortunately, many many people voted in a political way because they were disgruntled with the Government rather than anything to do with Europe, and many many others voted to leave because they believed the gutter press about things like the whole of Turkey will move to England WHEN they are FOR SURE going to be allowed to join the EU, and the fact that we pay for everything in Europe (according to The Daily Mail anyway). There was an area near Cardiff that has seen more than 400 miliion Quid pumped in to it for regeneration all from the EU money. Even the local Councils said it was 10 times more than they could ever have provided, but the area still voted leave with one local being interviewed (stood in front of the multi million pound training facility paid by the EU, and by the fast dual carriageway link to the City of Cardiff paid by the EU) saying "what have they ever done for us". You can't make it up. Anyway, I won't discuss this anymore. I can understand your feelings reference Scotland aswell. Interestingly, 16-18 year olds could vote in that one, yet in the Brexit Referendum it was not permitted, despite, like I said before, it being the younger generations that will suffer the consequences of this cluster fuck.

One last thing reference who should have been allowed a vote. In total 6 million people directly affected couldn't vote. That's 3 million ex-pats and 3 million EU Citizens already working in the UK, and we/they are directly affected, unlike many millions who this will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, who got to vote on the futures of people like me.

31Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 15:57

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

DK, so you not only decided to move to Germany, but have also planned to retire to Spain, and you still believe you should have a say in the future of the UK ? 

Not only that, but you criticize the older generation for all sorts of things. Since when has ageism been acceptable? My understanding is that it isn't, any more, (not forgetting that the older generation have already paid for what is currently available to them/us, and to which you are already laying claim to, i.e. pension).
If you had to move to Germany, all it shows is your career choices in the past, were not always as good as you thought.
You'll have a good life in Germany, much better than many many people in Britain, and its your choice, so stop whingeing, and get on with it.

32Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:08

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Dunkels King wrote:One last thing reference who should have been allowed a vote. In total 6 million people directly affected couldn't vote. That's 3 million ex-pats and 3 million EU Citizens already working in the UK, and we/they are directly affected, unlike many millions who this will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, who got to vote on the futures of people like me.

To be fair the vast majority who voted (for Brexit or Remain) will still be living here for years to come and have to face the good or the bad of whatever is to come - so it is completely wrong to say it won't impact on their futures.

Of course it will - and if you choose to continue to live outside the country then it will obviously effect them (us) more than it ever will you, or other ex-pats - particularly if you continue the joys of being in the EU and us in the UK don't.

33Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:20

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Sluffy wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:One last thing reference who should have been allowed a vote. In total 6 million people directly affected couldn't vote. That's 3 million ex-pats and 3 million EU Citizens already working in the UK, and we/they are directly affected, unlike many millions who this will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, who got to vote on the futures of people like me.

To be fair the vast majority who voted (for Brexit or Remain) will still be living here for years to come and have to face the good or the bad of whatever is to come - so it is completely wrong to say it won't impact on their futures.

Of course it will - and if you choose to continue to live outside the country then it will obviously effect them (us) more than it ever will you, or other ex-pats - particularly if you continue the joys of being in the EU and us in the UK don't.

What joys of being in the EU ? Being able to stay in Germany forever or go back to the UK, because going to the other Countries to live or work will be out of the window. The impact I talk about is the freedom of movement around Europe that was guaranteed as part of being in the UK. Many ex-pats I work with and know socially based coming over here on that right to move around and go where the work is. I think you don't understand that British Citizens currently living in the EU (not the UK) have not been given a single assurance about what will happen regarding being allowed to stay in the Country they are in if they get made redundant, or if they can still continue to move around Europe. Nothing. Now that is what is shameful, because we are here knowing nothing. Imagine being in a situation were you have no idea if you will be entitled to support in the Country you have lived in for years and years if you lose your job because the goal posts got moved without you being permitted to have a say.

34Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Dunkels King wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:One last thing reference who should have been allowed a vote. In total 6 million people directly affected couldn't vote. That's 3 million ex-pats and 3 million EU Citizens already working in the UK, and we/they are directly affected, unlike many millions who this will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, who got to vote on the futures of people like me.

To be fair the vast majority who voted (for Brexit or Remain) will still be living here for years to come and have to face the good or the bad of whatever is to come - so it is completely wrong to say it won't impact on their futures.

Of course it will - and if you choose to continue to live outside the country then it will obviously effect them (us) more than it ever will you, or other ex-pats - particularly if you continue the joys of being in the EU and us in the UK don't.

What joys of being in the EU ? Being able to stay in Germany forever or go back to the UK, because going to the other Countries to live or work will be out of the window. The impact I talk about is the freedom of movement around Europe that was guaranteed as part of being in the UK. Many ex-pats I work with and know socially based coming over here on that right to move around and go where the work is. I think you don't understand that British Citizens currently living in the EU (not the UK) have not been given a single assurance about what will happen regarding being allowed to stay in the Country they are in if they get made redundant, or if they can still continue to move around Europe. Nothing. Now that is what is shameful, because we are here knowing nothing. Imagine being in a situation were you have no idea if you will be entitled to support in the Country you have lived in for years and years if you lose your job because the goal posts got moved without you being permitted to have a say.

Two things.

People lived and worked abroad long before we ever joined the EU and they managed to go about it ok - what about non EU citizens that live and work in the EU now - they manage ok also.

Isn't the EU guaranteeing the same rights you enjoy now after Brexit as the UK is guaranteeing EU citizens who live and work here now, after Brexit? I thought they were, maybe I'm wrong?

35Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:31

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

gloswhite wrote:DK, so you not only decided to move to Germany, but have also planned to retire to Spain, and you still believe you should have a say in the future of the UK ? 

Not only that, but you criticize the older generation for all sorts of things. Since when has ageism been acceptable? My understanding is that it isn't, any more, (not forgetting that the older generation have already paid for what is currently available to them/us, and to which you are already laying claim to, i.e. pension).
If you had to move to Germany, all it shows is your career choices in the past, were not always as good as you thought.
You'll have a good life in Germany, much better than many many people in Britain, and its your choice, so stop whingeing, and get on with it.

First thing, I am old so it's not ageist. But what I said is true, as was pointed out by someone else a while ago in much stronger terms. A lot of people who voted leave will not be affected. They are comfortable in the UK, never had any will to go to Europe (at least to live or work) and will before the next generation is out of shorts be off this mortal coil. It's not just the future of the UK. It's the future of it's Citizens, of which I am one, so I have every right to "whinge". Get on with what ? No one has any idea how we are going to get on. Nothing has been said what happens to us. If the Brexit decision had been based on truths then I couldn't complain, but in fact the result was based on more bullshit than a bullshit factory could produce in a hundred years.

Reference career paths. You could be right, but then again, the UK destroyed the industry I am in a long time ago and you know, it's not easy to take a financial hit to get retrained when you are getting on a bit, and I can't even begin to think of anything that was even being advertised around that time. I was in the Forces, then worked at Heathrow, then Manchester, couldn't get back in to Heathrow when Manchester scaled down, nor any other places. I had to put Bread on the table. Not the time to go on a new career path.

36Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:36

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Sluffy wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
Dunkels King wrote:One last thing reference who should have been allowed a vote. In total 6 million people directly affected couldn't vote. That's 3 million ex-pats and 3 million EU Citizens already working in the UK, and we/they are directly affected, unlike many millions who this will have absolutely no effect on whatsoever, who got to vote on the futures of people like me.

To be fair the vast majority who voted (for Brexit or Remain) will still be living here for years to come and have to face the good or the bad of whatever is to come - so it is completely wrong to say it won't impact on their futures.

Of course it will - and if you choose to continue to live outside the country then it will obviously effect them (us) more than it ever will you, or other ex-pats - particularly if you continue the joys of being in the EU and us in the UK don't.

What joys of being in the EU ? Being able to stay in Germany forever or go back to the UK, because going to the other Countries to live or work will be out of the window. The impact I talk about is the freedom of movement around Europe that was guaranteed as part of being in the UK. Many ex-pats I work with and know socially based coming over here on that right to move around and go where the work is. I think you don't understand that British Citizens currently living in the EU (not the UK) have not been given a single assurance about what will happen regarding being allowed to stay in the Country they are in if they get made redundant, or if they can still continue to move around Europe. Nothing. Now that is what is shameful, because we are here knowing nothing. Imagine being in a situation were you have no idea if you will be entitled to support in the Country you have lived in for years and years if you lose your job because the goal posts got moved without you being permitted to have a say.

Two things.

People lived and worked abroad long before we ever joined the EU and they managed to go about it ok - what about non EU citizens that live and work in the EU now - they manage ok also.

Isn't the EU guaranteeing the same rights you enjoy now after Brexit as the UK is guaranteeing EU citizens who live and work here now, after Brexit?  I thought they were, maybe I'm wrong?


In one word. No. Not a single thing has been guaranteed. Please point me to the documentation that says everything will be rosy and don't worry if you lose your job we will look after you and not boot you back to Blighty, but infact it doesn't exist. The first priority should always have been maintaining the rights of the affected people. The only right I know is that the UK said it would not be kicking people out and that they can register as residents or something. Amazing that because we are registered in Germany but we have had no information at all. In fact, one of the guys I work with called the Tax office in Leipzig last week because he was on a single mans tax (despite being married) and they actually told him "you are leaving the EU next year so you can stay on single person tax", and they weren't joking with him either.

Forgot to add. As a non EU Citizen you CAN still work in Europe. You need what is now known as a Blue Card. the problem is, under EU regulations (requested by the UK of course) you can not employ a person from a non EU Country (soon to be Britain) if another person from an EU Country is suitably qualified. In other words you will only get the job if no one from the other 27 EU Countries applied for it.

37Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 16:42

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

DK. Fair comments, about your career. Being ex Army, and having a specialist trade, I think I know where you're coming from. My own options were even more limited.
Just because were old farts, doesn't mean we can say what we like about age, colour, etc  Very Happy
Truths about Brexit were hard to come by from either side, also you ask about ex-pats, but seem to forget that everyone will suffer in some form or other, and from times when I lived abroad, the further from the UK I and my family were, the more we were sheltered from the more severe effects.
I do see your concerns, genuinely, but bear in mind that we will be subject to many other influences that you will not, e.g. price increases, etc.

38Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Sep 22 2018, 19:58

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

I think DK's had an internet breakdown. I hope he's ok.

By the way, did anyone see Nigel Farage in Bolton today? Apparently it was a sellout, not something you normally associate with Bolton.

I bet xmiles got his autograph.

39Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Sep 23 2018, 08:03

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

gloswhite wrote:DK. Fair comments, about your career. Being ex Army, and having a specialist trade, I think I know where you're coming from. My own options were even more limited.
Just because were old farts, doesn't mean we can say what we like about age, colour, etc  Very Happy
Truths about Brexit were hard to come by from either side, also you ask about ex-pats, but seem to forget that everyone will suffer in some form or other, and from times when I lived abroad, the further from the UK I and my family were, the more we were sheltered from the more severe effects.
I do see your concerns, genuinely, but bear in mind that we will be subject to many other influences that you will not, e.g. price increases, etc.

Don't get me started on money Smile I am paid an hourly rate in GBP. as you can imagine with the pound sliding against most Currencies I am about 300 Euro per month worse off than I was before Brexit was announced. I hope it doesn't go too much further or I will have to stop bathing in Champagne.

40Brexit negotiations - Page 2 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sun Sep 23 2018, 08:06

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka

Natasha Whittam wrote:I think DK's had an internet breakdown. I hope he's ok.

By the way, did anyone see Nigel Farage in Bolton today? Apparently it was a sellout, not something you normally associate with Bolton.

I bet xmiles got his autograph.

I'm fine Nat. Hope you are keeping warm in your Preston Penthouse. Don't worry about me. Enjoy your Sunday. Some of us have to work. Still, I am on day 11 of 14 so after today only 3 more days before I can get back to my family in Bavaria Smile

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