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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » Brexit negotiations

Brexit negotiations

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gloswhite
Sluffy
finlaymcdanger
Buellix
Hipster_Nebula
bryan458
wessy
luckyPeterpiper
rammywhite
Natasha Whittam
Dunkels King
okocha
bwfc71
Cajunboy
boltonbonce
wanderlust
20 posters

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1Brexit negotiations Empty Brexit negotiations Wed Feb 20 2019, 15:54

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:The dementia tax?
It was in the manifesto and they did campaign on it.
When they dropped it they then campaigned on the revised manifesto.

So have you got a better example of the point you are trying to make? - because it looks like you're trying to represent opinion as fact again.

Although to be fair, the Tory candidate round here didn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what the manifesto said he was going to deliver. Obviously he was elected anyway.

Not true. The policy was not dropped during the election. 

http://dailym.ai/2sicSaE

2Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Feb 20 2019, 16:26

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Hipster_Nebula wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:The dementia tax?
It was in the manifesto and they did campaign on it.
When they dropped it they then campaigned on the revised manifesto.

So have you got a better example of the point you are trying to make? - because it looks like you're trying to represent opinion as fact again.

Although to be fair, the Tory candidate round here didn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what the manifesto said he was going to deliver. Obviously he was elected anyway.

Not true. The policy was not dropped during the election. 

http://dailym.ai/2sicSaE
The health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, was asked on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme if the policy was a rejection of both Dilnot’s cap and the £72,000 limit that was going to be put in place by the Conservatives under David Cameron.“Yes, and not only are we dropping it but we are dropping it ahead of a general election and we’re being completely explicit in our manifesto that we’re dropping it,” said Hunt.

3Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Feb 20 2019, 16:37

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Yes and as I proved above this was at odds with Mays statement. You obviously didn't read it.

5Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Feb 20 2019, 22:20

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Let us pause for a moment.

6Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Wed Feb 20 2019, 22:33

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes and as I proved above this was at odds with Mays statement. You obviously didn't read it.
Simultaneously proving that you have no evidence of your original statement. Nice work.

7Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Thu Feb 21 2019, 07:30

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

wanderlust wrote:
Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes and as I proved above this was at odds with Mays statement. You obviously didn't read it.
Simultaneously proving that you have no evidence of your original statement. Nice work.

Er no

8Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Thu Feb 21 2019, 09:26

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse


Yes, but not during the campaign as was said this thread.

Why would MPs be lobbying her to "drop it" after the election was over if that was the case.

But anyway I think I've proven the point that general elections carry the same policy confusion and lies as referenda. 

Not according to lusty though.

9Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Thu Feb 21 2019, 18:42

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Fox fails to deliver promised trade deal shock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47319533

So much for it being the easiest trade deal in human history. Rolling Eyes

10Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Thu Feb 21 2019, 19:04

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

He did say "should" be.

11Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Thu Feb 21 2019, 22:47

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Hipster_Nebula wrote:He did say "should" be.

So it must be his own incompetence that has caused him to fail so massively to deliver then.

12Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Feb 22 2019, 09:29

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Well he's not exactly known for his competence.

13Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Feb 22 2019, 10:00

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Perhaps he thought it would just be a matter of saying "we agree to what the EU agrees - sign here" however as the UK is such small fry compared to the EU, there's no reason why Japan should offer the same terms.

14Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Fri Feb 22 2019, 22:39

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:Its very clear in my mind what I voted for, and why. No point talking to you or other remainers about it, as you have made your own minds up from day 1, and have worn blinkers ever since.

Said the man who voted for a hard brexit and has ignored the mounting evidence that this will be very bad for the UK. Try taking the blinkers off glos! Laughing
I didn't vote for a hard Brexit, and neither did anyone else. A hard Brexit hadn't even been heard of when the Leavers first won the referendum. I agree that a no deal Brexit will have some very serious effects on the UK,  but unlike yourself, I have confidence that the country will rally, and manage to come out of it better off, (it may take some time Shocked ), whereas people like yourself do us no good by constantly attacking every aspect that doesn't fit into your idea of a perfect EU/ UK coalition. Once this whole debacle is over, many, like yourself will be in the wrong mindset, unable to change tack and actually work for a better UK future.
I don't believe I'm wearing blinkers, however, I am constant in what I want for this country, and in the process am acknowledging that the arguments are swaying back and forth, with many instances that raise my hopes one minute, and dash them the next. This has left me to just accept that we have politicians who are pursuing their own agendas, ignoring what their constituencies voted for, and as a result have ruined what could have been a far more cordial, and profitable, process, which wouldn't have torn the country apart as it has. A comment on the TV a week or so ago stated that there were about 500 Remainers to 150 Leavers in the House, of Commons, hence the problems where most of the 500 are trying to stay in Europe, when they have been told  otherwise.

When one considers all the vehemence and vitriol espoused, even on little forums like this, it makes me wonder in what direction politics will go in the future, (but that's another topic). It will take many years for the people of this country, never mind the economics, to settle down. Regardless of the outcome, I feel that Brexit has changed the country, and the people, far more than we realise, and its effects will be very far reaching, (but were not all doomed  Very Happy)

15Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Feb 23 2019, 00:29

Guest


Guest

What is it you want for the country Glos?

16Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Feb 23 2019, 12:26

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:Its very clear in my mind what I voted for, and why. No point talking to you or other remainers about it, as you have made your own minds up from day 1, and have worn blinkers ever since.

Said the man who voted for a hard brexit and has ignored the mounting evidence that this will be very bad for the UK. Try taking the blinkers off glos! Laughing
I didn't vote for a hard Brexit, and neither did anyone else. A hard Brexit hadn't even been heard of when the Leavers first won the referendum. I agree that a no deal Brexit will have some very serious effects on the UK,  but unlike yourself, I have confidence that the country will rally, and manage to come out of it better off, (it may take some time Shocked ), whereas people like yourself do us no good by constantly attacking every aspect that doesn't fit into your idea of a perfect EU/ UK coalition. Once this whole debacle is over, many, like yourself will be in the wrong mindset, unable to change tack and actually work for a better UK future.
I don't believe I'm wearing blinkers, however, I am constant in what I want for this country, and in the process am acknowledging that the arguments are swaying back and forth, with many instances that raise my hopes one minute, and dash them the next. This has left me to just accept that we have politicians who are pursuing their own agendas, ignoring what their constituencies voted for, and as a result have ruined what could have been a far more cordial, and profitable, process, which wouldn't have torn the country apart as it has. A comment on the TV a week or so ago stated that there were about 500 Remainers to 150 Leavers in the House, of Commons, hence the problems where most of the 500 are trying to stay in Europe, when they have been told  otherwise.

When one considers all the vehemence and vitriol espoused, even on little forums like this, it makes me wonder in what direction politics will go in the future, (but that's another topic). It will take many years for the people of this country, never mind the economics, to settle down. Regardless of the outcome, I feel that Brexit has changed the country, and the people, far more than we realise, and its effects will be very far reaching, (but were not all doomed  Very Happy)
A few Brexiteers I know have finally realised that you can't unscramble an egg and attempting to de-globalise at a point in our history where we are entirely dependent on our trading relationships with other countries was never going to be an easy option and the pipe dream of the more common Brexit ideologies was and is never going to happen, regardless of who cops the blame for it.

17Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Feb 23 2019, 14:58

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Agree about the withdrawing from globalisation, however, I believe we are hampered by being part of the EU. I accept that benefitting from the EU comes at a price, but I also believe that price is getting a little too much. We are fully capable of going on our own, rather than be included in a 28 country conglomerate that doesn't allow enough freedom to trade. Very much like the comprehensive school system when it started, nobody was allowed to go faster than the slowest, as we're all equals, and the wonderful new system would cater for everyone's needs. (Probably why we have so many low achieving children nowadays, poor sods.)

18Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Feb 23 2019, 15:03

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

T.R.O.Y wrote:What is it you want for the country Glos?
In a nutshell TROY, I would like us to be masters of our own destiny. Free to make our own decisions, as well as our own mistakes. 
We can see how the abilities of the ruling class have deteriorated during this Brexit process, and if we were to stay in the EU, they would only get worse, leaving all major decisions, and some minor as time rolls on, to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
If we ignore this opportunity, we will be subsumed into the European experiment, never to be a truly independent country again.

19Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Sat Feb 23 2019, 15:20

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Thank you Glos !

You mirror my own feelings on the Brexit situation and have explained your beliefs really well.

Like you I have faith in the people of this country to make a success of our future.

20Brexit negotiations Empty Re: Brexit negotiations Mon Feb 25 2019, 11:16

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

gloswhite wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:What is it you want for the country Glos?
In a nutshell TROY, I would like us to be masters of our own destiny. Free to make our own decisions, as well as our own mistakes. 
We can see how the abilities of the ruling class have deteriorated during this Brexit process, and if we were to stay in the EU, they would only get worse, leaving all major decisions, and some minor as time rolls on, to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
If we ignore this opportunity, we will be subsumed into the European experiment, never to be a truly independent country again.

What unelected bureaucrats do you mean?

EU Parliament (which has final say on everything that happens within EU)?
- elections for these MEPs are every 5 years but we are not taking part this year (or ever again due to us leaving) and its based on true democracy of proportional representation rather than the archaic UK system of "First Past the Post"

EU Commission which is made up of members that have been elected within their own country, or MEPs that have elected to join, and represents their country on specific boards - such as Nigel Farage elected himself to be on the fisheries commission and then did nothing to help the British fishing trade but received rather handsome payouts for doing nothing!  Noting that the EU Parliament can, if they wanted to, sack the Commisssioners at any given time

EU council which again is made up of people elected in their representative countries and represents their people

Hmm it seems all people involved in decision making within EU (and yes that does mean referring back to individual country Parliaments, who are also elected) have been elected at one point or another - thus EU is not an unelected body.

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